Spindle Upgrade for WABECO milling machine

[xzswq21]

Hello
In our country I can not find MT2 tools for the WABECO F1200 milling machine, even I can not find Shell end mills with 16mm hole and the sellers told me that you can find shell end mills with 20mm to 27mm holes, so I decided to upgrade the F1200 spindle:
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/frasmaschinen/zubehor-frasmaschinen/werkzeugaufnahme-mk3.html

But if WABECO upgrades the mill machine I should find a MT3 collet set and MT3 end mill arbor and MT3 drill chuck,

You see the MT2 accessories for the WABECO F1200 milling machine as following:

WABECO Collet set MT2-M10: (I think this is MT2 ER16)
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/collet%20set%20mt2-m10-1518.html

WABECO end mill arbor MT2x16:(MT2 x 16 and tightening thread M10)
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/combi%20shell%20end%20mill%20arbor%20mt2x16%20%20-1151.html

WABECO Quick-action drill chuck B16 1-13 mm: (with morse taper MT2 and tightening thread M10)
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/quick-action%20drill%20chuck%20b16%201-13%20mm%20%20-930.html

Drill sleeve from MT3 to MT2: (Can I use it if I upgrade the spindle from MT2 to MT3? it may I can fit MT2 accessories into the MT3 spindle)
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/drill%20sleeve%20from%20mt3%20to%20mt2-944.html

could you please help me to find reliable MT3 accessories? (I don't want any Chinese accessories because precision is very important to me)
wish I could know the manufacturer of the WABECO accessories.

Thanks

[Doctorandus_P]

The problem here probably is that there are no professional tools using morse tapers as the main tool mounting option. It's al ISO, HSK and other methods.

So that leaves the hobby market and the tinkereres, and those are not very savvy on investing a lot of money into tools.

The statement of calling all Chinese tools bad is also just silly. China is pretty big and makes lots of stuff, from cheap low quality stuff all the way to the high-end tools.

Morse tapers are also pretty inconvenient to use. You need the thread in the back for milling, but you also need a hammer or at least a wedge to remove the tools.

If you're serious about an upgrade, then upgrade to something like an SK30 instead of morse.
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/frasmaschinen/zubehor-frasmaschinen/werkzeugaufnahme-sk30.html

Note that (as far as I know) all the "30" tapers are the same BT30, ISO30, SK30, etc. The differences are in the thread in the back and other additional features. Sometimes you can easily make them compatible with small modifications, other combinations are more troublesome. But if you buy new, then just buy what fits your machine.

[xzswq21]

Today I have reviewed several topics about MT2, MT3 and ISO30 and I have noticed ISO30 is better than MT. it's interesting you recommended me to use ISO30. Yes, I will buy WABECO ISO30 edition milling machine.

[Doctorandus_P]

Also, maybe you want to consider to buy some Chinese tooling.

For example, the link below lets you choose between 3um an 1um accuracy for bt30 tooling:
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003344228339.html

If you buy the cheapest Chinese tools you can find then you get what you pay for, but if you avoid the lowest prices it usually directly translates into better quality.

The precision you need in your tooling is also very much dependent on the tool.
Drill chucks do generally not need the highest accuracy, and neither do big and slow rotating endmills.

I also once bought an "integrated drill chuck", and am quite happy with its quality.
These integrated versions are shorter and stiffer then the separate drill chucks with adapters.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&SearchText=iso30+integrated+drill+chuck

So if your aversion against Chinese tools is not too big, then I advise you to buy one or two, and compare the quality with your other tools yourself. If you stay away from the cheapest stuff, then the quality may well be a pleasant surprise.

You may also want to have a look at MZG. It's a quite big Taiwanese manufacturer of mills. Probably not as good as Sandvik or Kennametall, but very likely a lot better than the cheap random stuff.

For CNC machines you often want to get the best tools you can get, but for manual machines the performance to cost ratio usually is more important.

[Benta]

@DoctorP, there's a lot more to this than you know.
The OP is wandering about in a labyrinth of tools and accessories, because he has no idea how machine tools work.

The MT2 vs. MT3 is a question about the machine tool spindle. It has nothing to do with the cutting tools themselves. Those will be held in a tool holder mounted in the spindle: ER, OZ, SK, arbor, whatever.
The OP doesn't understand this. You're wasting your time.
I've been bombarded with private questions from the OP and have answered them patiently, and he still doesn't understand.
Just a warning. You may be the next victim.

[xzswq21]

@DoctorP, there's a lot more to this than you know.
The OP is wandering about in a labyrinth of tools and accessories, because he has no idea how machine tools work.

The MT2 vs. MT3 is a question about the machine tool spindle. It has nothing to do with the cutting tools themselves. Those will be held in a tool holder mounted in the spindle: ER, OZ, SK, arbor, whatever.
The OP doesn't understand this. You're wasting your time.
I've been bombarded with private questions from the OP and have answered them patiently, and he still doesn't understand.
Just a warning. You may be the next victim.

I asked you some questions and I appreciated you. I asked you because you have a WABECO machine and in our country I can not find accessories easily. I had posted this topic the day before you replied to me and today another user replied to me.
I wanted to buy several large tools and you warned me the tools are not suitable for F1200 and it's better to buy a F1210 so I decided to buy a F1210 or a 100mm Axis vise. why do you think you are a victim?
I left a "thanks" under all your helpful replies but you think you are a victim.
In the last month I asked you about the lathe and if you remember I told you I have economic problem and I can't afford to buy an expensive lathe so I decided to buy a used Lathe, anyhow my family helped me to buy a new machine and I decided to buy a WABECO milling machine, later I will buy a lathe.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/mechanical-engineering/used-precision-lathe-machine/msg3648151/#msg3648151

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/cnc-servo-motor-sizing/msg3776552/#msg3776552

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/mechanical-engineering/cnc-conversion-kit-for-a-milling-machine/msg3760514/#msg3760514

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/transformer-circular-box/msg3691252/#msg3691252

[xzswq21]

@DoctorP, .

The MT2 vs. MT3 is a question about the machine tool spindle. It has nothing to do with the cutting tools themselves. Those will be held in a tool holder mounted in the spindle: ER, OZ, SK, arbor, whatever.
The OP doesn't understand this. You're wasting your time.

WABECO has ISO30 end mill arbor, ISO30 drill Chuck and ISO30 collet chuck,...and I should buy these when I want to buy a F1210 ISO30 edition.

[Benta]

Yes, you said Thanks. That's is good.
But you do not listen and you do not learn.
First it was MT2, then it was MT3, now it's ISO30... What next?

Over and out.

[xzswq21]

Yes, you said Thanks. That's is good.
But you do not listen and you do not learn.
First it was MT2, then it was MT3, now it's ISO30... What next?

Over and out.

I tried to upgrade the F1210 machine from MT2 to MT3 but I couldn't find some MT3 tools, even WABECO didn't reply to me because they don't have MT3 tools. but today I have noticed ISO30 is more suitable for milling machine and on the other hand WABECO has ISO30 tools.

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=144758

I have noticed precisebits.com has a ISO chuck. They produce suitable bits for micro milling. Their products are ideal for my work.

[xzswq21]

a user told me the spindle speed of the WABECO is low for a CNC machine,
it's 100 to 3000, but actually it's not a CNC router and it's a CNC mill so the 1.4kW AEG motor has higher torque to cut hard materials.

The materials I use are mostly aluminum and brass. sometimes I should cut stainless steel.

for example MDA precision has upgraded the spindle:
https://mdaprecision.com/product-category/benchtop-milling-machines/benchtop-cnc-mill/

for the V8-TC8 they have mounted a 1 Kw Alfred Jaeger Z45, 5000-60,000RPM Spindle:
https://mdaprecision.com/products/benchtop-milling-machines/benchtop-cnc-mill/wabeco-v8-high-speed-cnc-mill/

This is the motor:
https://www.jaegerspindles.com/us/z-line/10301067



According to the curves, the torque is low at low speeds. I think it's suitable for soft materials or surface finishing.

Last month a mechanic in our country made a spiral gearbox for my friend but the surface finishing was not good, actually they have used milling tools for many months and years.

Now my question is:
I have found several equation about the relation between RPM, feedrate and other parameters.
Can I have an acceptable surface finishing with 3000 RPM? (not like a mirror)

Thanks

[Doctorandus_P]

@DoctorP, there's a lot more to this than you know.
The OP is wandering about in a labyrinth of tools and accessories, because he has no idea how machine tools work.
...
Just a warning. You may be the next victim.

Yeah sure.
But give him some slack.
It looks like he's planning to buy his first machine and trying to navigate blind (by lack of experience) though the maze of tools, and these things are quite expensive.

-----------------------
Those high RPM spindles such as the Jaeger have a quite different application area. Those are for small diameter tools, (such upto about 6mm or 8mm) While a mill like the Wabeco is for bigger tools, such as 60mm facemills. If you watch a bunch of Youtube video's about the different CNC mills and routers you'll get a good idea of the different application area's.

[xzswq21]

It looks like he's planning to buy his first machine

I'm not a mechanic! I'm an electrical engineer and I need a CNC mill to build several devices and gears. There is no CNC for metal working in our state and there are only several big shops which have CNC machines, they want $5000 for a small thing! Now if you can, pay the $5000 to have several precision holes inside a plate! when you are talking about 0.05mm accuracy they mock you! Accuracy is a dream.
Plus I should produce a lot transformers, a company told me that only tooling process is $3000! I have a lot of problem and can not explain all them for you.
This is not an impossible mission! the first step I should buy a precision machine such as WABECO...

[thm_w]

Any RPM could give you a mirror finish, its a matter of how long that is going to take.

If you are working with 10mm+ endmills, 3,000 rpm can be enough.
Once you start going down to say 3mm endmills, cutting at 3,000rpm would require you to slow the cut so much that the process will take a long time. Usually hobbyist type machining is done on small parts, so higher RPM is more useful than raw power.

Google speed and feed calculator. Maybe play around with CAM and adjust the rpm and look at job finishing times.