Author Topic: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....  (Read 889 times)

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Offline Smokey

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Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« on: May 13, 2021, 08:46:27 am »
I'm looking to make some custom spindles with tapered roller bearings like these:


1.25"ID, 2.32"OD = https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Dura-Roll/1-25-ID-2-32-OD-0-625-Wide-Cup-Cone-Tapered-Roller-Bearing-Set-Dura-Roll-LM67048-LM67010-1-5524.axd
..and..

1.5"ID, 2.56"OD = https://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Dura-Roll/1-50-ID-2-56-OD-0-71-Wide-Cup-Cone-Tapered-Roller-Bearing-Set-Dura-Roll-LM29749-LM29710-1-5534.axd

I feel like turning the bearing housings out of solid 3" round bar is a waste of steel, but I'm not finding any suitable thick wall tube or pipe that's available and less expensive.  I know we are in a steel shortage, but I figured there would be more thick wall tube options in this size range.

What am I missing?  What tube would you make a bearing housing out of for these tapered roller bearings?
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2021, 08:58:37 am »
Bronze? Last time I had to machine bearing collars for some one way bearings I got a 12" length of 4x3 Bronze bush. There was a full range of sizes available with good overlaps. Mill a flat on it and then screw  a steel base maybe.

Schedule 80 Pipe (think that is still the USA standard) would be ok on the bigger one in 2 1/2" but neither 2 or the 2 1/2 will suit the smaller one. It is generally the thickest wall section available in the smaller sizes but you might find 120 or 160 if you get lucky.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2021, 09:14:26 am »
I need to weld them to some other parts, so it has to be steel.  Brazing won't work for this one.

I know I can get whatever I want from mcmaster, but paying $97.52 for 1 foot of 2-1/2" Sch80 is not going to happen.... ($8.12/in)
https://www.mcmaster.com/pipe/thick-wall-steel-unthreaded-pipe/pipe-size~2-1-2/

I can still get 3" hot rolled A36 solid round bar cut to length for cheaper (before this steel shortage, WAY cheaper):
https://www.mkmetal.net/hrroundbar3x20
$615 for 20ft = about $2.56 an inch
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2021, 09:28:29 am »
Sounds like you have your question answered then ;) As I don't currently have accesses to a Lathe I have just been pushing the job to a local shop and leaving the decisions to them whenever a need comes up. Last job was a run of 24 small 2" Bushes for bearings and they wanted under $10USD for each and the larger job could easily afford it. I doubt I could have made them for less if I charged my time on making them even with a Lathe.

Your other option might be find a Cast bearing carrier close to size and machine it out and push/shrink a bronze bush into any gap. Still means a mechanical fastener into your frame/build then is all.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2021, 09:37:49 am »
Hmm.  MandK does have 2-1/2 Sch80 listed and it's cheaper than solid. 
https://www.mkmetal.net/blackpipesch802-12x21

I wonder if they actually have any stock.  Gotta make some calls tomorrow it looks like.

These things are trailer axle bearings, so I was looking at turning down cheap wheel hub housings, but that still seems silly. 
 

Online jpanhalt

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2021, 10:37:10 am »
There are a variety of "steel tube" available.  For example: various pipe sizes & wall thicknesses, welded, seamless, roll on mandrel.  Moreover, distributors basically price by the pound.  Prices at McMaster, HD, Lowes, and online are outrageous by comparison. (Although, I do use McMaster for a lot of other things.)

Look in your area for distributors/dealers.  There are also yards that specialize in "cut offs" from nearby industrial places  If you are in the Dodge Center, MN  or Cleveland, OH areas, I can suggest some good sources.  For example, last Fall, I paid $50 "out the door" for an 8' piece of 5" x3" x 1/4" angle in Cleveland.   I have had the best luck with small to medium size, family run dealers/distributors.  It may also help to say what you are using it for, as I did with the angle (i.e., snow plow for a farm).
 

Offline Robert Smith Eco Warrior

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2021, 02:18:55 pm »
Hi.
I just made a bearing housing from a piece of thick walled tube about 80mm O.D. x 40mm I.D. that was a bit difficult to get hold of and expensive. I think I would start from solid bar which might be a lot easier to get.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2021, 06:59:35 am »
I think the part if you want to buy it is called a roller bearing cup (not sleeve), they are ground and hardened and I guess designed to be either press fit or retaining compound fit into a blind hole

The benefits of the hardened surface may outweigh the integration of the cup into the spindle itself, and its much easier to manufacture since I guess you only need to bore a hole, I think they have optimum performance if all surfaces are hardened.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 07:01:29 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2021, 01:17:52 am »
... The benefits of the hardened surface may outweigh the integration of the cup into the spindle itself, and its much easier to manufacture since I guess you only need to bore a hole, I think they have optimum performance if all surfaces are hardened.

Yup.  It's the mild steel housing that I'm pressing the hardened cup/ring into that I need to make.  Then this housing gets bolted to the machine and all the guts of the spindle get installed in it.  However cool it would be to build the cup into the housing, I don't have the capabilities to heat treat or grind something that big with the needed precision.
 

Offline Gregg

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2021, 02:21:51 am »
I have a pipe that is 3" OD and 2.43 ID that is a little rusty on the ID but will probably clean up enough for the larger bearing you listed.  It was the inner upright for an aircraft jack stand so it isn't rusted like if it was used for water.  How long do you want and how many?  PM me if it looks like something you want; I'll give it to you if you want to pick it up.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2021, 10:08:59 am »
I appreciate the offer, but I like to at least try to find consistent sources for materials in case I need to make more of whatever I'm making.  I think I'm going to go pick up some of that sch80 pipe and see how it machines.  Hopefully it's not as terrible as some other smaller diameter black pipe I tried machining a few months back.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2021, 02:15:07 am »
if you want it easy I think the go-to is lead alloy steel that machines very well for weird things you are learning on

Not sure if its more or less expensive but I was  thinking that would be a good material to have in the shop for prototyping, it seems like the perfect type of steel for using on my mini-mill

I notice things that are welded or cast end up with surprises, I have a feeling drawn pipe has some kind of aspect to it that makes it suck

8 2'' feet for 128$, don't see 3'', but a piece might clue you in on what the best possible surface finish results are from your lathe and tell you if that process is good enough without the heartache https://stockcarsteel.com/cold-rolled-round-bar-12l14-2.html?options=cart

from what I understand it should give you truly excellent surface finish for a bearing cup that is turned. I have a feeling surface finish will be more important that overall hardness for a bearing cup, the damage that comes from roughness will probobly manifest itself quicker then the wear related deformation that comes over time, with reasonable loads, at least thats my hypothesis. When stuff starts bouncing or abrading I think it will snowball very quickly.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:31:27 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2021, 07:44:55 am »
if you want it easy I think the go-to is lead alloy steel that machines very well for weird things you are learning on

no-go.  Need to weld it.  Stuff like 12L14 really doesn't like being welded.

I notice things that are welded or cast end up with surprises, I have a feeling drawn pipe has some kind of aspect to it that makes it suck

Yup.  Start out over dimension, weld first, then machine.  Expect things to move... a lot..

from what I understand it should give you truly excellent surface finish for a bearing cup that is turned. I have a feeling surface finish will be more important that overall hardness for a bearing cup, the damage that comes from roughness will probobly manifest itself quicker then the wear related deformation that comes over time, with reasonable loads, at least thats my hypothesis. When stuff starts bouncing or abrading I think it will snowball very quickly.
I think you would really need to grind something like a bearing cup for it to work well.  But for $9USD you get the press in cup and the bearing, so that's an easy decision.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2021, 07:51:44 am »
Material Report:
I got some of that 2-1/2" Sch80 Black Pipe (2.875"OD, 0.276" wall) today.  So far so good!  As expected it's really not very round and there is a weld seam, but there was enough material to machine down and still hit the important dimensions.  The machinability is actually surprisingly good.  The metal is pretty uniform (no little stupid pockets of hardness) and it makes a good chip.  Lots of interrupted cuts while making the thing round and getting through the seam on the inside, but not bad at all once through that.  I think this is a winner for the 1.5"ID tapered roller bearings.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 10:32:11 am by Smokey »
 
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Offline JohnMc

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2021, 01:51:53 am »
I have made a number of things from sch80 however you can get 3" DOM with a .375  wall. 
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2021, 09:28:51 am »
...you can get 3" DOM with a .375  wall.
True.  But...
https://www.mkmetal.net/domroundtube3x.375x25.5
$1138.50 for 25.5ft = $3.72/inch

2-1/2 Sch80 = $352.85 for 21ft = $1.40/inch
https://www.mkmetal.net/blackpipesch802-12x21

That's more expensive than the solid 3" A36 bar.  If I needed better steel (the DOM is 1020) I would certainly go that way.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2021, 02:40:10 pm »
If its just one or two you need try a scrap yard, they often have drops from machine shops, also look at old hydraulic rams to cut up they are made of thick wall material very often special size DOM material.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2021, 07:39:52 pm »
If its just one or two you need try a scrap yard....

True.  Anyone know if there are any legit metal scrap yards around Los Angeles?
 

Online jpanhalt

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2021, 07:52:19 pm »
True.  Anyone know if there are any legit metal scrap yards around Los Angeles?

What do you consider "around" LA?  Bakersfield?  Palm Springs?  Huntington Beach? San Jose?   Or, is your radius around 5th and Hill Street more limited? :)

1) Scrap yards are often call recycling places today.
2) As suggested much earlier, metal distributors and fabricators often have walk-in yards where you can purchase "scrap" that is actually new cut-offs.
3) Look online for "metals" and shops with names such as Metal Store, etc.  There are at least 3 in the Cleveland area, and I suspect even more if I actually searched. 
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2021, 10:08:06 pm »
True.  Anyone know if there are any legit metal scrap yards around Los Angeles?

What do you consider "around" LA?  Bakersfield?  Palm Springs?  Huntington Beach? San Jose?   Or, is your radius around 5th and Hill Street more limited? :)

1) Scrap yards are often call recycling places today.
2) As suggested much earlier, metal distributors and fabricators often have walk-in yards where you can purchase "scrap" that is actually new cut-offs.
3) Look online for "metals" and shops with names such as Metal Store, etc.  There are at least 3 in the Cleveland area, and I suspect even more if I actually searched.

Sure.  I should have been more specific.

I have a vehicle, so "greater LA area" means something more like "does it make sense to take a chance and drive to a place that has a bunch of unknown scrap vs buying expensive new materials". 
50 miles?  Yup. All day long.
100 Miles? Sure if the prospects are good. 
500 miles?  Probably not unless it's a fabrication Disneyland.

There are lots of places that buy scrap metal, but I'm looking for a place that sells scrap metal.  I can't think of a place that bills themselves as a "recycler" that resells scrap and lets you roam around their lot and where everything is for sale.  But I don't really care what they call themselves.  Tell me an example of a place like this around LA and you will be my new personal hero.

I'm not talking about the "rem" section of the new metal supplier.  I'm well aware of that.  I'm talking more about "piles of old rusty I-beams cut out of a demolished building" type of place.  I have no doubt this exists in Ohio.  Lots of stuff exists in Ohio that doesn't exist within a reasonable distance of Los Angeles.
 

Online jpanhalt

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2021, 11:54:36 pm »
As I have tried to explain, I don't think a "scrap" yard, aka junk yard will be productive for something that is not ordinary pipe.  You will have more luck with something associated with a steel distributor or fabricator.  Some, of course, sell their scrap as such by weight; others have a separate yard to put the cut-offs and usable waste (e.g., old dies). 

I am sure there are plenty in the industrial areas of LA.  In the immediate area  (< 50 miles) near my home in Cleveland are: Spee-D-Metals (not the internet store by a similar name), Metal Store, Steel Supply, Lakewood Steel, HGR Industrial (industrial machines & surplus), and two others whose names escape me right now.  That is not a complete list, I am sure.  Those are just places I have bought from in the past 10 years.  Metal Store may be out of business now.

How much actual searching have you done on the Internet or Yellow Pages (if that still exists in LA)?  Failing that, find an independent steel distributor  and make a phone call.  I have found such businesses are quite friendly with hobbyists and will be able to point you to where they sell their cutoffs and scrap.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2021, 06:26:07 am »
I'm actually really happy with the sch80 pipe for the bearing housings this thread was originally talking about.   That's a good solution using generic off the shelf materials I can get anywhere.  All good there.

My local metal supplier is awesome and has lots of good rem and cutoffs that I look through often.  That's great.  I got a little off track with the scrap yard question.  That's more a general inquiry than having to do with hearing housings. 
 

Offline Gregg

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Re: Steel Round Tube For Bearing Housings???....
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2021, 05:42:52 pm »
Alco metals in San Jose and San Leandro sells all sorts of remnants, drops etc. by the pound. http://alcometals.com/ There may be a similar source near you. 
I used to buy metal there when I needed it; prices were high but not outrageous; the more you bought, the cheaper the price.  If you wanted a piece cut, the price went up accordingly, but if you bought as-is pieces, they were generally much cheaper than regular metal suppliers. They had lots of different shapes and alloys and they were quite well organized.
I haven't been there in over 20 years but it certainly fit the description of the type of scrap seller you are looking for.
 


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