Author Topic: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG  (Read 3753 times)

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Offline beanflying

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Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« on: November 01, 2021, 04:03:29 am »
Catch all ramble of sticking metal together by electrical means. Can likely include Spot or Laser Welding too or whatever process you like apart from maybe Gas Torch which deserves its own thread.

Youtube Resources

https://www.youtube.com/c/weldHAGOJIBI/videos Some excellent TIG based content the Auto translate to English works well and the with the teaching style doesn't matter that much anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Welddotcom/videos Some of their older content in particular on MIG, Stick and TIG is excellent in particular Bob Moffats. Recently it is patchy.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHNlp0SkVEuVVHNtAuRH8UA sppeaking of which I hope Bob gets this off the ground  :-+

https://www.youtube.com/c/WeldTubeHouston/videos More Pipe and heavy industry focus but worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/c/PacificArcTigWelding/videos TIG focused content well worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheFabricatorSeries/videos Loads of varied content but Car mods/repairs and roll frames feature.

https://www.youtube.com/c/weldingtipsandtricks/videos Can be a bit Infomercial style in parts but way more high quality advice within so look past that.

Plenty of others including some generalist Metalwork ones so add them below and I can tweak this.

Internet Resources

https://www.esabna.com/us/en/support/tools/index.cfm Lots of good apps, calculators and more on ESAB's site.

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources Millers Resource page and guides

Forums on Welding and or Fabrication

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/ Large and active Welding Forum

https://www.weld.com/ Forum and Resources to go with the YouTube content
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 01:24:45 am by beanflying »
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2021, 04:04:34 am »
place holder
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2021, 04:24:13 am »
Couple of projects I am cutting out and prepping for welding.

Which will be first the Cart or the Table is still a  :-// but I am leaning toward the table top then its base then the cart.

The Cart is based on a small steel filing cabinet I scrounged for $25 and 30x30x2mm Frame for the rest. The steel arrived last week so I can start chopping it up soon. The 'spare' spot on top is aspirational for the Plasma cutter I don't own yet

The Table in particular this table is a complete luxury item but I decided to do it properly and make the fabrication of square and accurate bits easier. 5mm Interlocking Pickled and Oiled table (certiflat style but not really) and 8mm 304 Stainless fixtures so I can swap them between my woodworking fixture table with a quick wipe. Righthand extension is a Vice mount. Same 30x30 frame and steel pegboard panels for storage of fixtures and clamps. I haven't had the cutting extension made yet and am still tweaking it to fold down.

Already done a bunch of prep on the waterjet cut bits with all the holes being reamed to 20mm and a light chamfer on both sides. 20mm is to keep compatibility with my woodworking gear but 5/8" is far more common if you are making one and has more existing clamps available. Really at a clean and prep stage for the table to get rid of a little flash rusting from the waterjet.
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Offline Alti

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2021, 08:45:55 pm »
Already done a bunch of prep on the waterjet cut bits with all the holes being reamed to 20mm and a light chamfer on both sides.
Just out of curiosity - how did you specify the tolerances when placing order for fixtures? I mean, you want to receive those with holes that are smaller than 20mm.
So did you specify 20mm holes in dxf file and they know this is supposed to be reamed to 20mm afterwards so they cut the holes tad smaller?
Or rather, did you specify lets say 19.8mm knowing based on their data, that this waterjet follows dxf centerline and has a cone that blasts 0.2mm of material(0.1+0.1) on exit, and has 0.1mm positioning tolerance on top of that? I mean, this is not a super precise machinery but how did you deal with tolerances?
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2021, 11:25:47 pm »
I supplied a slightly tapered plug (19.98-20.02mm) to the Waterjet company so he could cut a few sample holes prior and check his software kerf correction as I wanted a fairly high tolerance. When I went to see him initially he had a sampler of holes we looked at prior to finalizing the design. I did consider going to a Laser Cutter but this guy was more local and seemed up for the challenge.

For the Table parts I tweaked the holes to 20.1mm so the reamer was more of a cleanup for the small nubbin left by the cut process. There is still a slightly detectable bump so I could go in with a small drum or file but it can be done after if needed but filing a few hundred holes has little attraction.

In the case of the fixture and angle plate bits in Stainless they were cut at a tight 20mm and he tweaked the software kerf allowance for me to take them just under, generally from the ones I sampled they were running close to 19.95 +- a few and I know he fitted a brand new nozzle for this run so what the reamer was doing was minimal.

With the tabs and slots I put a 0.2mm clearance into the widths in CAD (-0.1mm either side on the tabs) and set the width of material to 5 and 8mm respectively knowing the metal was 0.2mm'ish under thickness. This is touchy feely more than precise engineering but the bits slide together and have a slight level of wiggle room to adjust and clamp before welding. I do this on my small Laser cutter with tab and slot boxes so I have a bit of practice.

So between the slight fit allowance of the table to fixture bits I will easily be able to hold sub 0.5mm across it without any real stress or checking. The reality of welding anything is it pushes and distorts as you go but the more square and accurate you start the closer you finish.

Edit

Last of the Table base bits arrived in the form of Leveling Casters eBay auction: #373720715093

Stash of M20x40 Hex headed screws and half nuts in 304 Stainless which against Black Steel was not that much more expensive.  :o Reason for the half nuts was partly cost but also the 40mm length will get me full engagement through 18-19mm of timber and a fixture for use on my timber tables. Somewhat unsurprisingly I lack the 17mm AF Hex Key so just one more thing to add to the list.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 04:00:53 am by beanflying »
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 05:23:04 am »
This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.    :(
 

Online totalnoob

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2021, 01:47:08 pm »
Under your "resources" you might want to add weldingweb.com which has a mix of pro and amateur welders who can answer questions and provide advice.
 
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2021, 02:02:50 am »
Added  :-+

Todays thought and sketching over a coffee. Most of the youtubers and even manufacturers get the base of their clamp designs wrong for the thinner (under say 1/4") fixture tables and try and use the hole sides to jamb a round peg in at an angle to hold down. The issue with this is you will deform and or stretch the hole and this will lead to it being useless for positional holding in short order.

So Pinching an idea from Fireball Tools and a quick and dirty model in Fusion to work out some clearances on the 20mm hole. The frames of these cheapy Clamps is about 3/16" or 5mm so plenty of meat in them to weld and there is enough material from the cut off section to make the other two plates from. ** Take the plating off where you are going to weld if you like your lungs.

Same principle will apply to chopped G or F clamps as the force from the clamp is more rotational rather than a lift against it.
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2021, 08:55:40 am »
[attachimg=1]
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2021, 11:20:58 am »
 :-DD
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2021, 01:11:43 pm »
This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.    :(
my mma/mig/tig arrived yesterday, its local brand for about $200+ rated 200A+ or whatever.. nowadays abundant of them can be had from china as cheap as $100 3 in 1 mma/mig (gasless)/tig but i dont want to be too cheap so i picked the one that can support gas mig.. it took me this long because of fear and frustration factor (solid state tech are not as durable as the dinasour age thick transformer type, and my bad experience with mig expecting it to behave like a stick welding, my bad actually) so i've been living with dinasour age transformer for 20+ years. recently i had a fucked up moment with filleted metal that i tried to assemble with the old machine, and electric bill skyrocketed for no good reason, that forced me to open my option to solid state igbt tech. i can see the one that i bought, has neat tricks like VRD, Arc Force, Hot Start, 2T/4T. so from the outside it seems to be an interesting machine with tech that i missed for years compared to the single mode fat heavy assed dinasour transformer.. hopefully the extra $100 tag compared to the cheapest hunglow is a worthy buy. lets see how many years (or months?) of gut it can has. finger crossed. ps: my tig torch,w accs are on their way, the struggle is actually on trying to find Argon/CO2 tank supplier near my secluded area here.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2021, 03:30:16 pm »
you forgot acetylene

https://www.youtube.com/user/897473

Gas brazing is a wonderful technique. yes he is a artist but its extremely useful for physics objects. There are alot of things that naturally you would want to weld, but brazing is strong enough and easier to apply and makes for a quicker project... so its a worthwhile technique.. plus its extremely cost effective, especially if you want to stay brand-name with your welding purchases...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 03:34:11 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2021, 05:02:03 am »
Catch all ramble of sticking metal together by electrical means. Can likely include Spot or Laser Welding too or whatever process you like apart from maybe Gas Torch which deserves its own thread.

snippity.....

No I didn't I suggested it deserves and needs its own as it is every bit as diverse and specialized as Electric welding.
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Offline wilfred

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2021, 06:19:28 am »
This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.    :(
I was in Bunnings a few weeks ago and saw a 140A stick welder for $99. I'd been wanting to try welding for a while and had seen someones YT video on one they bought (from Bunnings) for $50. It was on clearance and I just said that I'd seen some video on YT where it was $50 can I buy it for $50 too. They said yes. It was a Bossweld mini-arc 140. I'm hoping if you buy it from Bunnings it will at least meet the specs on the box.

I saw a few videos on YT tearing down cheap welders bought on Ebay and something I did notice was this one had two big input caps instead of just one. One clearly had space on the PCB for two but one was  unpopulated. And internally the Bossweld one had copper bussbars where the Ebay cheapies had aluminium (if that). Don't know if it makes a huge difference but it is clearly cheaping out.

 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2021, 07:05:32 am »
This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.    :(
I was in Bunnings a few weeks ago and saw a 140A stick welder for $99. I'd been wanting to try welding for a while and had seen someones YT video on one they bought (from Bunnings) for $50. It was on clearance and I just said that I'd seen some video on YT where it was $50 can I buy it for $50 too. They said yes. It was a Bossweld mini-arc 140. I'm hoping if you buy it from Bunnings it will at least meet the specs on the box.

I saw a few videos on YT tearing down cheap welders bought on Ebay and something I did notice was this one had two big input caps instead of just one. One clearly had space on the PCB for two but one was  unpopulated. And internally the Bossweld one had copper bussbars where the Ebay cheapies had aluminium (if that). Don't know if it makes a huge difference but it is clearly cheaping out.



Mate. Do yourself a favour and find a local men's shed. Identify the resident hermit there and they will get you going with technique and tool advice.
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