Welding - Stick, TIG and MIG

[beanflying]

Catch all ramble of sticking metal together by electrical means. Can likely include Spot or Laser Welding too or whatever process you like apart from maybe Gas Torch which deserves its own thread.

Youtube Resources

https://www.youtube.com/c/weldHAGOJIBI/videos Some excellent TIG based content the Auto translate to English works well and the with the teaching style doesn't matter that much anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Welddotcom/videos Some of their older content in particular on MIG, Stick and TIG is excellent in particular Bob Moffats. Recently it is patchy.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHNlp0SkVEuVVHNtAuRH8UA sppeaking of which I hope Bob gets this off the ground 

https://www.youtube.com/c/WeldTubeHouston/videos More Pipe and heavy industry focus but worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/c/PacificArcTigWelding/videos TIG focused content well worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheFabricatorSeries/videos Loads of varied content but Car mods/repairs and roll frames feature.

https://www.youtube.com/c/weldingtipsandtricks/videos Can be a bit Infomercial style in parts but way more high quality advice within so look past that.

Plenty of others including some generalist Metalwork ones so add them below and I can tweak this.

Internet Resources

https://www.esabna.com/us/en/support/tools/index.cfm Lots of good apps, calculators and more on ESAB's site.

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources Millers Resource page and guides

Forums on Welding and or Fabrication

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/ Large and active Welding Forum

https://www.weld.com/ Forum and Resources to go with the YouTube content

[beanflying]

place holder

[beanflying]

Couple of projects I am cutting out and prepping for welding.

Which will be first the Cart or the Table is still a  but I am leaning toward the table top then its base then the cart.

The Cart is based on a small steel filing cabinet I scrounged for $25 and 30x30x2mm Frame for the rest. The steel arrived last week so I can start chopping it up soon. The 'spare' spot on top is aspirational for the Plasma cutter I don't own yet

The Table in particular this table is a complete luxury item but I decided to do it properly and make the fabrication of square and accurate bits easier. 5mm Interlocking Pickled and Oiled table (certiflat style but not really) and 8mm 304 Stainless fixtures so I can swap them between my woodworking fixture table with a quick wipe. Righthand extension is a Vice mount. Same 30x30 frame and steel pegboard panels for storage of fixtures and clamps. I haven't had the cutting extension made yet and am still tweaking it to fold down.

Already done a bunch of prep on the waterjet cut bits with all the holes being reamed to 20mm and a light chamfer on both sides. 20mm is to keep compatibility with my woodworking gear but 5/8" is far more common if you are making one and has more existing clamps available. Really at a clean and prep stage for the table to get rid of a little flash rusting from the waterjet.

[Alti]

Already done a bunch of prep on the waterjet cut bits with all the holes being reamed to 20mm and a light chamfer on both sides.

Just out of curiosity - how did you specify the tolerances when placing order for fixtures? I mean, you want to receive those with holes that are smaller than 20mm.
So did you specify 20mm holes in dxf file and they know this is supposed to be reamed to 20mm afterwards so they cut the holes tad smaller?
Or rather, did you specify lets say 19.8mm knowing based on their data, that this waterjet follows dxf centerline and has a cone that blasts 0.2mm of material(0.1+0.1) on exit, and has 0.1mm positioning tolerance on top of that? I mean, this is not a super precise machinery but how did you deal with tolerances?

[beanflying]

I supplied a slightly tapered plug (19.98-20.02mm) to the Waterjet company so he could cut a few sample holes prior and check his software kerf correction as I wanted a fairly high tolerance. When I went to see him initially he had a sampler of holes we looked at prior to finalizing the design. I did consider going to a Laser Cutter but this guy was more local and seemed up for the challenge.

For the Table parts I tweaked the holes to 20.1mm so the reamer was more of a cleanup for the small nubbin left by the cut process. There is still a slightly detectable bump so I could go in with a small drum or file but it can be done after if needed but filing a few hundred holes has little attraction.

In the case of the fixture and angle plate bits in Stainless they were cut at a tight 20mm and he tweaked the software kerf allowance for me to take them just under, generally from the ones I sampled they were running close to 19.95 +- a few and I know he fitted a brand new nozzle for this run so what the reamer was doing was minimal.

With the tabs and slots I put a 0.2mm clearance into the widths in CAD (-0.1mm either side on the tabs) and set the width of material to 5 and 8mm respectively knowing the metal was 0.2mm'ish under thickness. This is touchy feely more than precise engineering but the bits slide together and have a slight level of wiggle room to adjust and clamp before welding. I do this on my small Laser cutter with tab and slot boxes so I have a bit of practice.

So between the slight fit allowance of the table to fixture bits I will easily be able to hold sub 0.5mm across it without any real stress or checking. The reality of welding anything is it pushes and distorts as you go but the more square and accurate you start the closer you finish.

Edit

Last of the Table base bits arrived in the form of Leveling Casters eBay auction: #373720715093

Stash of M20x40 Hex headed screws and half nuts in 304 Stainless which against Black Steel was not that much more expensive.  Reason for the half nuts was partly cost but also the 40mm length will get me full engagement through 18-19mm of timber and a fixture for use on my timber tables. Somewhat unsurprisingly I lack the 17mm AF Hex Key so just one more thing to add to the list.

[Brumby]

This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.   

[totalnoob]

Under your "resources" you might want to add weldingweb.com which has a mix of pro and amateur welders who can answer questions and provide advice.

[beanflying]

Added 

Todays thought and sketching over a coffee. Most of the youtubers and even manufacturers get the base of their clamp designs wrong for the thinner (under say 1/4") fixture tables and try and use the hole sides to jamb a round peg in at an angle to hold down. The issue with this is you will deform and or stretch the hole and this will lead to it being useless for positional holding in short order.

So Pinching an idea from Fireball Tools and a quick and dirty model in Fusion to work out some clearances on the 20mm hole. The frames of these cheapy Clamps is about 3/16" or 5mm so plenty of meat in them to weld and there is enough material from the cut off section to make the other two plates from. ** Take the plating off where you are going to weld if you like your lungs.

Same principle will apply to chopped G or F clamps as the force from the clamp is more rotational rather than a lift against it.

[Ed.Kloonk]

[attachimg=1]

[Brumby]

 

[Mechatrommer]

This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.   

my mma/mig/tig arrived yesterday, its local brand for about $200+ rated 200A+ or whatever.. nowadays abundant of them can be had from china as cheap as $100 3 in 1 mma/mig (gasless)/tig but i dont want to be too cheap so i picked the one that can support gas mig.. it took me this long because of fear and frustration factor (solid state tech are not as durable as the dinasour age thick transformer type, and my bad experience with mig expecting it to behave like a stick welding, my bad actually) so i've been living with dinasour age transformer for 20+ years. recently i had a fucked up moment with filleted metal that i tried to assemble with the old machine, and electric bill skyrocketed for no good reason, that forced me to open my option to solid state igbt tech. i can see the one that i bought, has neat tricks like VRD, Arc Force, Hot Start, 2T/4T. so from the outside it seems to be an interesting machine with tech that i missed for years compared to the single mode fat heavy assed dinasour transformer.. hopefully the extra $100 tag compared to the cheapest hunglow is a worthy buy. lets see how many years (or months?) of gut it can has. finger crossed. ps: my tig torch,w accs are on their way, the struggle is actually on trying to find Argon/CO2 tank supplier near my secluded area here.

[coppercone2]

you forgot acetylene

https://www.youtube.com/user/897473

Gas brazing is a wonderful technique. yes he is a artist but its extremely useful for physics objects. There are alot of things that naturally you would want to weld, but brazing is strong enough and easier to apply and makes for a quicker project... so its a worthwhile technique.. plus its extremely cost effective, especially if you want to stay brand-name with your welding purchases...

[beanflying]

Catch all ramble of sticking metal together by electrical means. Can likely include Spot or Laser Welding too or whatever process you like apart from maybe Gas Torch which deserves its own thread.

snippity.....

No I didn't I suggested it deserves and needs its own as it is every bit as diverse and specialized as Electric welding.

[wilfred]

This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.   

I was in Bunnings a few weeks ago and saw a 140A stick welder for $99. I'd been wanting to try welding for a while and had seen someones YT video on one they bought (from Bunnings) for $50. It was on clearance and I just said that I'd seen some video on YT where it was $50 can I buy it for $50 too. They said yes. It was a Bossweld mini-arc 140. I'm hoping if you buy it from Bunnings it will at least meet the specs on the box.

I saw a few videos on YT tearing down cheap welders bought on Ebay and something I did notice was this one had two big input caps instead of just one. One clearly had space on the PCB for two but one was  unpopulated. And internally the Bossweld one had copper bussbars where the Ebay cheapies had aluminium (if that). Don't know if it makes a huge difference but it is clearly cheaping out.

[Ed.Kloonk]

This topic just brought back a memory of frustration......

A few months ago I walked into the tool shop of my local Bunnings to see someone buying a highly marked down MIG/TIG/Stick welder for $200.  I asked the guy there (pointing to the one being purchased) if they had any more and he said they had 3 that were sitting around for ages and finally made the decision to just clear them out ... and that was the last one.  Normal price was in the $400-$500 range and while not the best you could get, it certainly comfortably covered anything I could envisage.

Now, whenever I go in, I ask ... but have not found anything close ever since.   

I was in Bunnings a few weeks ago and saw a 140A stick welder for $99. I'd been wanting to try welding for a while and had seen someones YT video on one they bought (from Bunnings) for $50. It was on clearance and I just said that I'd seen some video on YT where it was $50 can I buy it for $50 too. They said yes. It was a Bossweld mini-arc 140. I'm hoping if you buy it from Bunnings it will at least meet the specs on the box.

I saw a few videos on YT tearing down cheap welders bought on Ebay and something I did notice was this one had two big input caps instead of just one. One clearly had space on the PCB for two but one was  unpopulated. And internally the Bossweld one had copper bussbars where the Ebay cheapies had aluminium (if that). Don't know if it makes a huge difference but it is clearly cheaping out.

Mate. Do yourself a favour and find a local men's shed. Identify the resident hermit there and they will get you going with technique and tool advice.

[beanflying]

Bumpity Bump - sort of.

Janky jigging today but it got the job done. TIG 50 amps no filler on a Hydraulic jack screw that go sheared off. Part of a rebuild on my Lifting table and it will be attached with the flex drive used on part of the jig. The Hex was just a cut down spare nut driver and I will run a die back up over the weld to tidy the thread area.

Magnetic pointer/earth is a great thing to add to your collection too.

[beanflying]

Bob is back with nearly a dozen videos in the last month. Good mix of factory tours and welding info presented in his cruisy style.

[beanflying]

I am WEAK and it was just on $500 AUD because of some loyalty points I had and because it was Boxing Day it got me another $100 in vouchers...... Got a trailer to rebuild this year and a little work down the yard so Gasless MIG is faster/sensible over TIG outside and WAY WAY better than my stick welding skills are likely to ever get back to.

At least that was 'part' of the justification 

160A Mig/Stick box with all the modern easy set point and shoot but can be over ridden and will run Gasless or Gas, Steel, Stainless or Aluminium.

[Alti]

160A Mig/Stick box with all the modern easy set point and shoot but can be over ridden and will run Gasless or Gas, Steel, Stainless or Aluminium.

I have never heard about 15% duty cycle rating. Usually these ratings were given in 35% and 100% ED at 10 minutes.

Duty Cycle STICK:
140A@15%
54A@100%

Duty Cycle MIG:
160A@15%
62A@100%

[beanflying]

I had a talk to the product guys at a recent trade show and theirs is 1 1/2 minutes to 10 off so it is a generous 15% I guess. The reality is most of what I will be doing with it will be 2-3mm wall tubing so you don't need 160A regardless. If you are welding 25 to even 50mm SHS I doubt you could weld much over that duty cycle unless you have a heap of tube fixtured ready to go.

Different story if you are trying to weld 6-10mm plate or continual root and filler passes but then this is not the welder you buy either. This is also not a BS evilbay duty cycle either requiring 200% efficiency  it runs on a 10A 240V socket.

The other attractive thing to me in part is it will run off the Generator I own while the TIG I got a year or so back will not and a larger MIG would be in the same boat. Even if I wound the TIG back it is worth a lot more $ if I fried before you get to the issues of Gas outdoors.

[matskatsaba]

160A Mig/Stick box with all the modern easy set point and shoot but can be over ridden and will run Gasless or Gas, Steel, Stainless or Aluminium.

I have never heard about 15% duty cycle rating. Usually these ratings were given in 35% and 100% ED at 10 minutes.

Duty Cycle STICK:
140A@15%
54A@100%

Duty Cycle MIG:
160A@15%
62A@100%

They exist. I have a MIG with 15% duty cycle too. It was VERY cheap.
At least not that cheap to base it off of Amps, since afaik that's pretty much constant in MIG mode (around 60 amps on mine).
It's an export so the 15% duty cycle at 24V can't be taken too seriously either. Well, at least it still works, only keeping this particular one to lend.