Author Topic: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System  (Read 110283 times)

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Offline EC8010

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #350 on: May 25, 2024, 03:51:24 pm »
According to an email sent on 18/5 from Mouser UK, production was completed on 16/5 and ADR1001 was in transit to their warehouse. I've been given a 28/5 shipment date. This is for an evaluation board.
 

Online ITArchitect

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #351 on: May 25, 2024, 03:57:01 pm »
I believe you just need to get in line with the rest of us unless you have a manufacturer source.  The earlier you get it ordered, the sooner it will arrive.  I'm looking at a July 30th delivery for my order.  Good luck! ;)
 

Offline EC8010

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #352 on: May 25, 2024, 04:30:41 pm »
I ordered it some time ago, so I'm in the queue. If Mouser despatch on 28/5, it should arrive with me, ooo 1st June. I also believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden.
 

Offline CalibrationGuy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #353 on: May 25, 2024, 04:50:17 pm »
As a professional who owns a serious business, I take a dim view of companies that introduce products without sorting their manufacturing and/or distribution issues. Anyway, I will go through the professional channels at ADI and see what the real timelines look like. Thanks.

I am a big fan of their products, though. Just frustrated by not being able to get and test the latest vref offerings.

TomG.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 04:52:16 pm by CalibrationGuy »
 

Online ITArchitect

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #354 on: May 25, 2024, 04:53:32 pm »
If you find a shortcut, please share. If a 10 week wait among the community could somehow be avoided, many would appreciate it! 8)
 

Offline CalibrationGuy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #355 on: May 25, 2024, 05:04:40 pm »
If you find a shortcut, please share. If a 10 week wait among the community could somehow be avoided, many would appreciate it! 8)

The only thing I could offer is the resources to buy 100 or so. I will see if that's a possibility to accelerate the timeline. Too bad it's a holiday weekend in the US, nothing will get done until Tuesday.

TomG.
 

Offline picburner

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #356 on: May 27, 2024, 05:04:41 am »
According to an email sent on 18/5 from Mouser UK, production was completed on 16/5 and ADR1001 was in transit to their warehouse. I've been given a 28/5 shipment date. This is for an evaluation board.

They told me something different.
They promised a shipment on May 17th, then postponed to the 20th.
However, as of today, May 27th, nothing has arrived yet and no other communication in this regard.
 

Offline Andreas

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #357 on: May 27, 2024, 07:46:53 am »
Hello,

keep calm,
its getting real if you get the tracking number for FEDEX delivery.

In my case for the ADR1399 they shifted delivery dates from month to month.
From "production finished" to the tracking number it needed around 2 weeks.

with best regards

Andreas
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #358 on: May 28, 2024, 02:57:01 am »
Before going to the "new ADR1001", I have some more pictures of the "old ADR1001":




First of all I have a better picture of the whole die. Here you can take a look at the full resolution: https://www.richis-lab.de/images/REF01/32x30x.jpg (42MB)






And here we have the 1,7Ω resistance at the output. The book The Art of Analogue Layout by Alan Hastings contains typical resistance values for the metal layer of standard bipolar processes. According to this, each square represents a resistance of 20-40mΩ. This results in up to 1,08Ω. With the bondwire you get 1,22Ω. There are missing the contact resistance between the metal layers, the contact resistance between bondpad and bondwire and the resistance of the pad on the housing.


https://www.richis-lab.de/REF29.htm#HR

 :-/O
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #359 on: May 28, 2024, 03:39:40 am »
There are two of these output resistors? One for the buffer amp output and another for the R3 takeoff? It must add a bunch of thermal EMF junctions and need to cancel them out. Not an expert in resistor construction on-die.
It might be to add some output resistance for the buffer amp to remain stable driving the monster COUT 1-100uF capacitance. I would imagine the buffer amp noise current can be high as well. That seems like heavy filtering there.
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #360 on: May 28, 2024, 04:37:17 am »
The yellow and the red squares are resistances in the two metal layers that are effective in the output path. In other words that are outside the feedback loop in the 10V configuration.

Of course you have such resistances at INV2 and INV1 too but these are less critical (in my view).

Offline iMoTopic starter

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #361 on: May 28, 2024, 06:50:16 am »
The fix..
The new orange path goes from the output pin pad to the high side of the divider.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 06:51:59 am by iMo »
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #362 on: May 28, 2024, 07:03:22 am »
That would make it better.
The best solution would be to give the voltage divider it's own contacts.

Offline iMoTopic starter

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #363 on: May 28, 2024, 07:05:43 am »
Yep, that would allow to use a single npn transistor as the buffer. I called it the "ADR1002" in the past :)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 07:09:19 am by iMo »
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #364 on: May 28, 2024, 07:08:13 am »
I remember your ADR1002. AD should appreciate your idea.  :-+

Offline iMoTopic starter

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #365 on: May 28, 2024, 07:18:31 am »
Frankly, my bet is they have not changed anything on the chip, if I were you I would not decap it but build a good Vref out of it instead. The entire delays etc are business related, imho. Too high demand or they do not want to cannibalize the other references.
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #366 on: May 28, 2024, 07:27:38 am »
Probably you are right but I need to know for sure.  ;D

As you know I even opened a second ADR1000 just to see if there is a difference between the 2107/2018 parts and the 2022 parts
(https://www.richis-lab.de/REF19.htm).
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #367 on: May 28, 2024, 07:44:34 pm »
Frankly, my bet is they have not changed anything on the chip, if I were you I would not decap it but build a good Vref out of it instead. The entire delays etc are business related, imho. Too high demand or they do not want to cannibalize the other references.

Every week, shipping dates get pushed back, Aug 8 now. ADI Philippines is pretty much surrounded by water, very high humidity. Heading into monsoon season now. Worst place to package a ref.? Bring it back ADI! lol

ADR1001 output buffer is push-pull, not an EF. To me, that BUF_F COUT is a bad move, something out of Idiocracy to "100uF". Datasheet uses 1uF but even that makes me squirm. You used 1uF or no?

This latest sample, I agree - build a Vref with it and see how it does before taking off the lid.

Noopy, please keep a very close eye out for the exact colour and look of the caviar (die-attach compound) in all this. It's too easy to change it without knowing that can ruin things.
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #368 on: May 29, 2024, 06:59:59 am »
As I said I just have a DM6500 which I can´t run 24/7 and in my lab temperature and humidity isn´t very constant.
I could build a Reference with the ADR1001 and gaze at the constant voltage but it wouldn´t help the community very much. ^-^

I will try to open the new ADR1001 with the solder iron (worked well with the old ADR1001) so the die attach compound doesn´t deteriorate. Will take a close look!  :-+

Online dietert1

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #369 on: May 29, 2024, 08:05:31 am »
As an engineer we learn to work to interfaces. In the case of a semiconductor part the interface is the datasheet maybe plus other documents like errata sheet. Everything behind that interface remains a black box. AD can change whatever they want whenever they want as long as the part complies to its specs. I like the images but would not want to depend on your findings inside the black box.
If i were an industry and got a delivery of 10 000 ADR1001, maybe i would open one of the lot as part of quality checks.

Regards, Dieter
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 08:10:51 am by dietert1 »
 

Offline EC8010

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #370 on: May 29, 2024, 08:07:27 am »
Well, what do you know? I've just received an email saying my evaluation board has been delayed, but production complete (claimed that last time). Interestingly, it says it's "In transit by ocean to our warehouse". How? On a replica of Kon Tiki? (Thor Heyerdahl's raft)
 

Offline iMoTopic starter

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #371 on: May 29, 2024, 08:23:15 am »
As the local Aku Aku I can confirm herewith the Kon Tiki with the latest batch of chips left my island already..  :D
 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #372 on: May 29, 2024, 08:23:29 am »
As an engineer we learn to work to interfaces. In the case of a semiconductor part the interface is the datasheet. Everything behind the interface remains a black box. AD can change whatever they want whenever they want as long as the part complies to its specs. I like the images but would not want to depend on your findings inside the black box.
If i were an industry and got a delivery of 10 000 ADR1001, maybe i would open one of the lot as part of quality checks.

Regards, Dieter


I'd say the exact opposite. The datasheet is the only specification that is guaranteed. Nevertheless it is very important to know whenever there is a change in the part. Because of that we have the PCN system. A lot of industries would curse a manufacturer that changes whatever he wants without telling the users.

...of course my images are not the standard to track changes but for the hobby user they can be important...

If I had a product including the ADR1001 I probably wouldn´t open one. After developing the product I would do the necessary testing and then I would try to have a very good contact to AD to get the PCNs so I know when I would have to requalify new parts.

Best regards!
 
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Offline iMoTopic starter

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #373 on: May 29, 2024, 08:29:05 am »
This kind of disclaimer is a firm part of any/all Datasheets..

Quote
Information furnished by Analog Devices is believed to be accurate and reliable "as is". However, no responsibility is assumed by Analog Devices for its use, nor for any infringements of patents or other rights of third parties that may result from its use. Specifications subject to change without notice. No license is granted by implication or otherwise under any patent or patent rights of Analog Devices. Trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

 

Offline Noopy

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Re: ADR1001 - Ovenized Voltage Reference System
« Reply #374 on: May 29, 2024, 08:36:57 am »
This kind of disclaimer is a firm part of any/all Datasheets..

Quote
Information furnished by Analog Devices is believed to be accurate and reliable "as is". However, no responsibility is assumed by Analog Devices for its use, nor for any infringements of patents or other rights of third parties that may result from its use. Specifications subject to change without notice. No license is granted by implication or otherwise under any patent or patent rights of Analog Devices. Trademarks and registered trademarks are the property of their respective owners.


For "people like us" and small companies that is correct but for big company with high quality requirements it is urgent to get informed about every change. Even small change that are probably irrelevant will be communicated.

I know what I´m talking about. A short time ago at work we urged a big IDM to introduce a additional part number for a part that got a second fab due to its high volume. For the second fab they had to modify the design quite a lot. In the first place the IDM wanted to introduce the second part with the same part number and datasheet.


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