« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: ASR-103  (Read 3662 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline maxampTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: us
ASR-103
« on: December 06, 2024, 05:53:35 am »
Has anyone used or done a tear down of a ASR-1**?  I can't find anything about it in EEVblog...

Mouser store link to ASR-103 $6,204.55:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Electronics/ASR-103?qs=hWgE7mdIu5R25LS1yp8SdQ%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOoolc1-lgZ9fvI4DQWtX7C0wGJsJcDNH76tcIUk59h36N9-eJ48-
±3 ppm per year

Paper about the evaluation of a ASR-103:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5525d010e4b00afb743a318d/t/55bbd5a8e4b002b451be6a92/1438373288134/ASR-103-report-NMi.pdf

Seems like you would be better off putting a Y607110K0000T9L in a box or spending the money on a SR104.
Digi key Y607110K0000T9L $80.71:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vpg-foil-resistors/Y607110K0000T9L/6029609
Shelf life stability: 2 ppm for at least 6 years
(unaffected by humidity)

SR104 $7,728.00
https://www.ietlabs.com/10-000-ohm-primary-resistance-standard.html
Highest accuracy (1 ppm/yr) and stability (±0.5 ppm/yr typical) of any resistance standard

You can get the 1K version for the low low price of $3,699.00 on ebay:
eBay auction: #204820149899
Logged
 

Offline Overspeed

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 710
  • Country: fr
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2024, 06:58:54 am »
Quote from: maxamp on December 06, 2024, 05:53:35 am
Has anyone used or done a tear down of a ASR-1**?  I can't find anything about it in EEVblog...

Mouser store link to ASR-103 $6,204.55:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Electronics/ASR-103?qs=hWgE7mdIu5R25LS1yp8SdQ%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOoolc1-lgZ9fvI4DQWtX7C0wGJsJcDNH76tcIUk59h36N9-eJ48-
±3 ppm per year

Paper about the evaluation of a ASR-103:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5525d010e4b00afb743a318d/t/55bbd5a8e4b002b451be6a92/1438373288134/ASR-103-report-NMi.pdf

Seems like you would be better off putting a Y607110K0000T9L in a box or spending the money on a SR104.
Digi key Y607110K0000T9L $80.71:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vpg-foil-resistors/Y607110K0000T9L/6029609
Shelf life stability: 2 ppm for at least 6 years
(unaffected by humidity)

SR104 $7,728.00
https://www.ietlabs.com/10-000-ohm-primary-resistance-standard.html
Highest accuracy (1 ppm/yr) and stability (±0.5 ppm/yr typical) of any resistance standard

You can get the 1K version for the low low price of $3,699.00 on ebay:
eBay auction: #204820149899

Hello

That not rocket science , there is some pictures of similiar products ( other brand on this forum ) generally that a main resistor and one in series / parallel to adjust the value , I have put in the post a link with Xdev DIY resistor that very close to the design except Xdev use a random value and not an adjusted value.

Depend who you are as If you are a big company with budget that not a problem but perhaps that possible to be clever ( estimated prices include shipping )
a nice machined CNC alu enclosure can be in the 700 USD ( CAD / CNC machining / surface treatment ..)
a set of Pomona banana connectors = 5x30 = 150 USD
internal insulation bespoke cut = 100 USD
internal shield = 100 USD
temp sensor well = 50 USD
various parts 25  USD

after the main component as the '' resistor '' is in the 150 x 4 = 600  USD max and can be tested / calibrated  before installation and after installation

final calibration to complete the project a quite costly service following the 2019 NIST prices list

Xdev have interesting things on his website :
https://xdevs.com/article/bsw104/

a DIY transfert low cost from Xdev

https://xdevs.com/article/lcrbox/

BE AWARE of EBAY standard as there is no proof of evidence as the resistor have not been over heated by using wrong current level

Regards
OS
« Last Edit: December 06, 2024, 05:16:30 pm by Overspeed »
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: maxamp

Offline Overspeed

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 710
  • Country: fr
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2024, 07:52:46 pm »
Hello

I link a test report of the ASR-103

Regards
OS
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Alex Nikitin

Offline Overspeed

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 710
  • Country: fr
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2024, 08:45:30 am »
Hello

a Fluke 742 autopsie on Xdev website

https://xdevs.com/article/f742a/

Xdev work quality is impressive

Fluke 742 by using two parallel copper plates ( slotted / drilled ) is a very good design which allow a simple setup and easy DIY without sophisticated tools .

Regards
OS
« Last Edit: December 07, 2024, 10:12:43 am by Overspeed »
Logged
 

Offline MiDi

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 728
  • Country: de
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2024, 01:24:42 pm »
There are some papers about HRU standard resistors available.
Those have different design than PWW (old SR104, F742A) or BMF (VHP100/200/VHA series, new SR104?).
Seems ASR does not use same technology as HRU/USR-SF, more like classic BMF: Alpha Electronics Standard Resistors
Be careful with DS of VPG resistors, their typical values may be far from what you get IRL: Study of temperature coefficient on 260 precision resistors.

Papers (may be available on a popular open source science hub):
Characterization of 1 kΩ Metal-Foil Standard Resistors and Continuing Drift-Rate Evaluation of 1 Ω and 10 Ω Standard Resistors
Novel 100-Ω Metal Foil Resistor
Characterization of 100-Ω Metal Foil Standard Resistors
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: maxamp

Offline Overspeed

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 710
  • Country: fr
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2024, 02:09:29 pm »
Hello

This one is interesting with internal pics

Regards
OS
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: maxamp

Offline maxampTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: us
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2024, 11:41:19 pm »
Quote
Be careful with DS of VPG resistors, their typical values may be far from what you get IRL: https://xdevs.com/article/tcr_test/#vpg2018

I put the VPG Y607110K0000T9L resistor I got from Digi-key on top of a peltier hot/cool plate and a 3458A.  Temperature cycled from 19-27C and got about 0.31ppm/C which is off but close to the 0.2ppm/C spec.  It could be due to my setup rather than the resistor. The xdevs article you linked is more about temperature coefficient rather than long term drift.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Andreas

Offline Andreas

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3458
  • Country: de
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2024, 08:29:54 am »
Hello,

What is the X-Axis: time in seconds or number of measurement (@ which NPLC).

For me it looks like there is some lagging effect (resistance reacts delayed to the temperature setpoint)
and/or some ageing drift (start and stop at the same temperature differ somewhat).

So I would:
- stay at the temperature extremes for a longer time. (plateau)
- cycle several times to see eventually occuring ageing drift.

By the way:
after my experience most of the heat transfer inside the resistor is done by the resistor wires.
So the wires should have a good thermal coupling to the temperature block.
Do you have the possibility to also measure the actual temperature value?

with best regards

Andreas

Logged
 

Offline bck

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 16
  • Country: de
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2024, 09:15:12 am »
just a guess from my side: the "lag" is him running ACAL after an SP change.
~12min for a full ACAL iirc => about 45min each step
Logged
Alex. B.
 

Offline Andreas

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3458
  • Country: de
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2024, 10:57:41 am »
Hello,
that is not what I am seeing:

from lowest temperature between 20 and 22 deg C there is no change in resistance.
Then at 23 deg C a small movement and at 24 deg C a large jump.
So the delay is more than one ACAL cycle.

with best regards

Andreas
Logged
 

Offline Kleinstein

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16267
  • Country: de
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2024, 12:31:24 pm »
Unless the measurement cycle is really long, it may not be a good idea to add ACAL calls in between. They also add some noise and over a short time the meter is more stable than the ACAL performance. It is still more the choice of no ACAL at all, or ACAL relatively frequent, like 2 x per step.
Logged
 

Offline maxampTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: us
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2024, 09:42:38 am »
X-axis is time in seconds.  I'm taking an ACAL with the temperature change which flat lines the readings.  I put the temperature sensor on the plate, put the resistor leads over the plate (rather than to the side), switched to 8508 to avoid ACALS  and 1 hour per step.  I'll post results when it's ready.  Thanks for the feedback. 
Logged
 

Offline aronake

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 458
  • Country: se
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2024, 10:47:50 am »
Quote from: maxamp on December 26, 2024, 09:42:38 am
X-axis is time in seconds.  I'm taking an ACAL with the temperature change which flat lines the readings.  I put the temperature sensor on the plate, put the resistor leads over the plate (rather than to the side), switched to 8508 to avoid ACALS  and 1 hour per step.  I'll post results when it's ready.  Thanks for the feedback.

Could you show a picture of you "plate setup"? If it is what it sounds like, a peltier with heatsink on one side and you just put the resistor on top of that in open air, i could see this being a big source of unreliable measurements. Better to build a box that the peltier are cooling. There are lots of such build projects posted here.
Logged
 

Offline maxampTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: us
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2024, 05:53:32 pm »
I attached what I have measured so far.  Keep in mind I started everything cold.  It now looks more like 0.83ppm/C.

I got this really cheap off ebay.  Its built like a tank.  I'm sending it serial commands.  It only has a set resolution of 1C.
https://torreypinesscientific.com/product/digital-shaking-chilling-heating-dry-baths/
Logged
 

Offline maxampTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: us
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2024, 06:21:04 pm »
Yes, I realize something like this would be more optional.  I just haven't put the time into building it yet.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/diy-large-thermal-chamber-for-metrology-tm-testing/msg3474756/?topicseen#msg3474756
Logged
 

Offline Andreas

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3458
  • Country: de
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2024, 07:40:51 pm »
Looks better now.

the best results on my measurements I got with a setup like here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/t-c-measurements-on-precision-resistors/msg695463/#msg695463
(note the 2 temperature sensors in good contact to the heat spreader near the resistor wires).

with best regards

Andreas
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: maxamp

Offline maxampTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: us
Re: ASR-103
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2024, 07:25:11 am »
Here is the longer run data.  Linear fit is 1.04PPM/C.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Andreas
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »

Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf

 


EEVblog Main Site EEVblog on Youtube EEVblog on Twitter EEVblog on Facebook EEVblog on Odysee