EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Metrology => Topic started by: maxamp on December 06, 2024, 05:53:35 am
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Has anyone used or done a tear down of a ASR-1**? I can't find anything about it in EEVblog...
Mouser store link to ASR-103 $6,204.55:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Electronics/ASR-103?qs=hWgE7mdIu5R25LS1yp8SdQ%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOoolc1-lgZ9fvI4DQWtX7C0wGJsJcDNH76tcIUk59h36N9-eJ48- (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Electronics/ASR-103?qs=hWgE7mdIu5R25LS1yp8SdQ%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOoolc1-lgZ9fvI4DQWtX7C0wGJsJcDNH76tcIUk59h36N9-eJ48-)
±3 ppm per year
Paper about the evaluation of a ASR-103:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5525d010e4b00afb743a318d/t/55bbd5a8e4b002b451be6a92/1438373288134/ASR-103-report-NMi.pdf (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5525d010e4b00afb743a318d/t/55bbd5a8e4b002b451be6a92/1438373288134/ASR-103-report-NMi.pdf)
Seems like you would be better off putting a Y607110K0000T9L in a box or spending the money on a SR104.
Digi key Y607110K0000T9L $80.71:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vpg-foil-resistors/Y607110K0000T9L/6029609 (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vpg-foil-resistors/Y607110K0000T9L/6029609)
Shelf life stability: 2 ppm for at least 6 years
(unaffected by humidity)
SR104 $7,728.00
https://www.ietlabs.com/10-000-ohm-primary-resistance-standard.html (https://www.ietlabs.com/10-000-ohm-primary-resistance-standard.html)
Highest accuracy (1 ppm/yr) and stability (±0.5 ppm/yr typical) of any resistance standard
You can get the 1K version for the low low price of $3,699.00 on ebay:
eBay auction: #204820149899
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Has anyone used or done a tear down of a ASR-1**? I can't find anything about it in EEVblog...
Mouser store link to ASR-103 $6,204.55:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Electronics/ASR-103?qs=hWgE7mdIu5R25LS1yp8SdQ%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOoolc1-lgZ9fvI4DQWtX7C0wGJsJcDNH76tcIUk59h36N9-eJ48- (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alpha-Electronics/ASR-103?qs=hWgE7mdIu5R25LS1yp8SdQ%3D%3D&srsltid=AfmBOoolc1-lgZ9fvI4DQWtX7C0wGJsJcDNH76tcIUk59h36N9-eJ48-)
±3 ppm per year
Paper about the evaluation of a ASR-103:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5525d010e4b00afb743a318d/t/55bbd5a8e4b002b451be6a92/1438373288134/ASR-103-report-NMi.pdf (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5525d010e4b00afb743a318d/t/55bbd5a8e4b002b451be6a92/1438373288134/ASR-103-report-NMi.pdf)
Seems like you would be better off putting a Y607110K0000T9L in a box or spending the money on a SR104.
Digi key Y607110K0000T9L $80.71:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vpg-foil-resistors/Y607110K0000T9L/6029609 (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/vpg-foil-resistors/Y607110K0000T9L/6029609)
Shelf life stability: 2 ppm for at least 6 years
(unaffected by humidity)
SR104 $7,728.00
https://www.ietlabs.com/10-000-ohm-primary-resistance-standard.html (https://www.ietlabs.com/10-000-ohm-primary-resistance-standard.html)
Highest accuracy (1 ppm/yr) and stability (±0.5 ppm/yr typical) of any resistance standard
You can get the 1K version for the low low price of $3,699.00 on ebay:
eBay auction: #204820149899
Hello
That not rocket science , there is some pictures of similiar products ( other brand on this forum ) generally that a main resistor and one in series / parallel to adjust the value , I have put in the post a link with Xdev DIY resistor that very close to the design except Xdev use a random value and not an adjusted value.
Depend who you are as If you are a big company with budget that not a problem but perhaps that possible to be clever ( estimated prices include shipping )
a nice machined CNC alu enclosure can be in the 700 USD ( CAD / CNC machining / surface treatment ..)
a set of Pomona banana connectors = 5x30 = 150 USD
internal insulation bespoke cut = 100 USD
internal shield = 100 USD
temp sensor well = 50 USD
various parts 25 USD
after the main component as the '' resistor '' is in the 150 x 4 = 600 USD max and can be tested / calibrated before installation and after installation
final calibration to complete the project a quite costly service following the 2019 NIST prices list
Xdev have interesting things on his website :
https://xdevs.com/article/bsw104/ (https://xdevs.com/article/bsw104/)
a DIY transfert low cost from Xdev
https://xdevs.com/article/lcrbox/ (https://xdevs.com/article/lcrbox/)
BE AWARE of EBAY standard as there is no proof of evidence as the resistor have not been over heated by using wrong current level
Regards
OS
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Hello
I link a test report of the ASR-103
Regards
OS
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Hello
a Fluke 742 autopsie on Xdev website
https://xdevs.com/article/f742a/
Xdev work quality is impressive
Fluke 742 by using two parallel copper plates ( slotted / drilled ) is a very good design which allow a simple setup and easy DIY without sophisticated tools .
Regards
OS
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There are some papers about HRU standard resistors (https://vpgfoilresistors.com/product/1549/datasheet) available.
Those have different design than PWW (old SR104, F742A) or BMF (VHP100/200/VHA series, new SR104?).
Seems ASR does not use same technology as HRU/USR-SF, more like classic BMF: Alpha Electronics Standard Resistors (https://vpgfoilresistors.com/products/standard-resistors-and-decade-boxes/hru-1r0/brochure/2)
Be careful with DS of VPG resistors, their typical values may be far from what you get IRL: Study of temperature coefficient on 260 precision resistors (https://xdevs.com/article/tcr_test/#vpg2018).
Papers (may be available on a popular open source science hub):
Characterization of 1 kΩ Metal-Foil Standard Resistors and Continuing Drift-Rate Evaluation of 1 Ω and 10 Ω Standard Resistors (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8558577)
Novel 100-Ω Metal Foil Resistor (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5714013)
Characterization of 100-Ω Metal Foil Standard Resistors (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/6513303)
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Hello
This one is interesting with internal pics
Regards
OS
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Be careful with DS of VPG resistors, their typical values may be far from what you get IRL: https://xdevs.com/article/tcr_test/#vpg2018 (https://xdevs.com/article/tcr_test/#vpg2018)
I put the VPG Y607110K0000T9L resistor I got from Digi-key on top of a peltier hot/cool plate and a 3458A. Temperature cycled from 19-27C and got about 0.31ppm/C which is off but close to the 0.2ppm/C spec. It could be due to my setup rather than the resistor. The xdevs article you linked is more about temperature coefficient rather than long term drift.
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Hello,
What is the X-Axis: time in seconds or number of measurement (@ which NPLC).
For me it looks like there is some lagging effect (resistance reacts delayed to the temperature setpoint)
and/or some ageing drift (start and stop at the same temperature differ somewhat).
So I would:
- stay at the temperature extremes for a longer time. (plateau)
- cycle several times to see eventually occuring ageing drift.
By the way:
after my experience most of the heat transfer inside the resistor is done by the resistor wires.
So the wires should have a good thermal coupling to the temperature block.
Do you have the possibility to also measure the actual temperature value?
with best regards
Andreas
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just a guess from my side: the "lag" is him running ACAL after an SP change.
~12min for a full ACAL iirc => about 45min each step
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Hello,
that is not what I am seeing:
from lowest temperature between 20 and 22 deg C there is no change in resistance.
Then at 23 deg C a small movement and at 24 deg C a large jump.
So the delay is more than one ACAL cycle.
with best regards
Andreas
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Unless the measurement cycle is really long, it may not be a good idea to add ACAL calls in between. They also add some noise and over a short time the meter is more stable than the ACAL performance. It is still more the choice of no ACAL at all, or ACAL relatively frequent, like 2 x per step.
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X-axis is time in seconds. I'm taking an ACAL with the temperature change which flat lines the readings. I put the temperature sensor on the plate, put the resistor leads over the plate (rather than to the side), switched to 8508 to avoid ACALS and 1 hour per step. I'll post results when it's ready. Thanks for the feedback.
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X-axis is time in seconds. I'm taking an ACAL with the temperature change which flat lines the readings. I put the temperature sensor on the plate, put the resistor leads over the plate (rather than to the side), switched to 8508 to avoid ACALS and 1 hour per step. I'll post results when it's ready. Thanks for the feedback.
Could you show a picture of you "plate setup"? If it is what it sounds like, a peltier with heatsink on one side and you just put the resistor on top of that in open air, i could see this being a big source of unreliable measurements. Better to build a box that the peltier are cooling. There are lots of such build projects posted here.
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I attached what I have measured so far. Keep in mind I started everything cold. It now looks more like 0.83ppm/C.
I got this really cheap off ebay. Its built like a tank. I'm sending it serial commands. It only has a set resolution of 1C.
https://torreypinesscientific.com/product/digital-shaking-chilling-heating-dry-baths/ (https://torreypinesscientific.com/product/digital-shaking-chilling-heating-dry-baths/)
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Yes, I realize something like this would be more optional. I just haven't put the time into building it yet.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/diy-large-thermal-chamber-for-metrology-tm-testing/msg3474756/?topicseen#msg3474756 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/diy-large-thermal-chamber-for-metrology-tm-testing/msg3474756/?topicseen#msg3474756)
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Looks better now.
the best results on my measurements I got with a setup like here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/t-c-measurements-on-precision-resistors/msg695463/#msg695463 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/t-c-measurements-on-precision-resistors/msg695463/#msg695463)
(note the 2 temperature sensors in good contact to the heat spreader near the resistor wires).
with best regards
Andreas
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Here is the longer run data. Linear fit is 1.04PPM/C.