Fluke 8558A/8588A 8.5-digit DMMs

[srnec]

TIN, you are right, this one is preproduction unit. I am more curious about real units and difference between this one and "final" version.

[srnec]

An 8.5-digit meter is more of a RATIO measuring device, and less of an absolute standard.  Even with these new Fluke meters, the absolute specs are +/- a few digits in the SIXTH decimal place.  The final 2 digits are useful for ratios.  These meters are NOT a "calibration lab in a box"-- please stop thinking of them that way.  Achieving uncertainty less than a few PPM requires different, more precise, (and mathematically provable) techniques than just whacking a resistor or voltage standard onto a "golden" DMM, and calling it "good".  That's why NMIs and Tier-1/Tier-2 calibration labs still use old-school techniques like bridges, null meters, and self-calibrating dividers.

This depends also on what kind of precision you are looking for. For commercial cal. lab is it precise enough. If you want to go higher you should look for something like 732C or Josephson.

[iMo]

After 30 years the community is waiting on something better than the 3458A in all parameters.
At the indicated price (15kE) the expectation is pretty high.

TIN, you are right, this one is preproduction unit. I am more curious about real units and difference between this one and "final" version.

It is my understanding you have/had access to the preproduction unit. Did you play with it?

[srnec]

Yes, I had chance to play with it. What I had chance to try, it is promising piece of hardware. Specially with high speed sampling is Fluke going to for them new territory. To use all new functions there will be necessary to talk with the instrument over network or GPIB.

It is my understanding you have/had access to the preproduction unit. Did you play with it?

[Chipguy]

The asking price for the Fluke 8588A ist 15.400 EUR from a Noth German reseller.

[dr.diesel]

talk with the instrument over network.

This feature alone will win many customers.

How long did it take to boot up?  Pretty much instant on or is it running an OS?

[e61_phil]

How long did it take to boot up?  Pretty much instant on or is it running an OS?

Does the boot time matter for an instrument which takes severeal hours to be within spec?

[dr.diesel]

Does the boot time matter for an instrument which takes severeal hours to be within spec?

Simply curious, given the display and network it's a safe assumption.  Which also likely means years worth of firmware updates till it's stable, like the 7510.

[srnec]

In system menu  "Licenses" is lot of about Linux, so I expecting similar system as in Fluke 400 thermal imager. It is booting faster than their 289 handheld DMM

[e61_phil]

The Fluke 5730A seems also to be running on Linux. The boot time is ok.

[srnec]

Someone who needs this kind of instrument may not be interested in absolute accuracy. This is reason why the 8558A exists. You may need only resolution and cold start few times per day.
 

How long did it take to boot up?  Pretty much instant on or is it running an OS?

Does the boot time matter for an instrument which takes severeal hours to be within spec?

[dr.diesel]

I don't personally care how long it takes to boot, I only asked because watching/how an instrument boots does shed further clues to how it's built, design choices etc.

[srnec]

Don't worry, my reaction was more about e61_phil's comment.

I am heavy using Ethernet communication also on 8846A (gives me another digit) and other instruments, for many purposes it is much more effective than GPIB.

I don't personally care how long it takes to boot, I only asked because watching/how an instrument boots does shed further clues to how it's built, design choices etc.

[guenthert]

[..]
I am heavy using Ethernet communication also on 8846A (gives me another digit) and other instruments, for many purposes it is much more effective than GPIB.

Not to mention, that Ethernet connectors provide galvanic separation via 'magnetics'.

[srnec]

Yes, burn only one board/IC when light strike hit it. :)

This one says a lot:

Not to mention, that Ethernet connectors provide galvanic separation via 'magnetics'.

[iMo]

What is on the sdcard there?
I can see an ADSP-BF527 Blackfin on the inguard pcb..
More pictures, plz 

[jeremy]

what is the purpose of these "fish scale" patterns all over this board?

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/85633/what-is-copper-thieving-and-why-use-it

[TiN]

Yup, that board is impedance controlled, so copper area need to be uniform to maintain trace thickness during etch.

srnec, can you show us analog boards pics please? I'm particulary interested in resistors for resistance and current ranges and voltage reference. I'd expect it's like later 8508As, LTFLU + network?
Do you have access to calibrator like 5700/5720? Curious minds want to see linearity. Fluke, as always, keep this important specification ommited and replaced by marketing woowoo instead.

I don't get the excitement over network connectivity. If somebody fork 10+K for meter performance like this, spending 500$ for GPIB/network bridge/etc is mandatory and standard already anyway. 

[dr.diesel]

I don't get the excitement over network connectivity. If somebody fork 10+K for meter performance like this, spending 500$ for GPIB/network bridge/etc is mandatory and standard already anyway. 

In production facilities these things end up in every cell, or station, which can number in the hundreds.  At this point the GPIB bridge is a 1:1 unnecessary accessory, plus cable, plus clutter at the rack etc.

One instrument per IP is also easier to manage, with less equipment in the middle.

[TiN]

Matter of replacing GPIB bridge with LAN router and more worry about security holes. It's relative, I'd expect. 

[srnec]

I hate fatty GPIB cables and connectors :)
Ethernet has many advantages and only few drawbacks compare to GPIB. Galvanic separation and long distance connection is for me only cherry on top.

[Mr. Scram]

Interesting times.

[srnec]

This one? Everything except current shunt and digital is on one huge board.
It is covered by shielding, when I will get final product, I will do measurement against 5730 and 732C. Today I had discussion also about 8846 linearity, one guy tested id due interlaboratory comparison measurement. He told me that it was pretty linear.

srnec, can you show us analog boards pics please? I'm particulary interested in resistors for resistance and current ranges and voltage reference. I'd expect it's like later 8508As, LTFLU + network? :)
Do you have access to calibrator like 5700/5720? Curious minds want to see linearity. Fluke, as always, keep this important specification ommited and replaced by marketing woowoo instead.

[iMo]

@Srnec: Plz, be so kind and do make pictures of everything there in the box, if possible.
People do make and do like teardowns of DMMs on the eevblog.

[TiN]

Yees. So as I expected, it is based on LTFLU reference. But what's going on with all those LM324's on right side of the board 
Also interesting box between WIMA caps, perhaps LTC1043 based capacitor divider/multiplier?