Author Topic: Galileo navigation system unusable  (Read 4199 times)

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Offline texaspyro

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Galileo navigation system unusable
« on: July 13, 2019, 05:41:02 pm »
Since  2019-07-11 01:00UTC the Galileo system has been unusable.  The current status is shown as "degraded",  but none of my dozen or so GPS receivers that can track Galileo are able to calculate a navigation solution.

https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information

Here is a report of what another guy is seeing:

http://lists.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/2019-July/097095.html
 
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Offline Towger

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 07:28:58 pm »
Just shows no one uses the system.  Looks like a total FUBAR. They are leaving each the satellite status blank!
 

Offline kj7e

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 09:34:02 pm »
I've been seeing the same thing on both of my GPSDO's.  Not able to lock or use Galileo even though I'm tracking 8 SV's with good C/N0.  BeiDou has been solid on the other hand.  Wonder if Galileo and their failing clocks is a bigger issue than they thought.

All Sats show as "Not Usable"
https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information

 

Offline imo

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Offline texaspyro

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 09:43:42 pm »
System status changed from "degraded" to "service outage".
 

Offline splin

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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 12:55:34 pm »
Time to recap how to use the sextant again  ;D

Offline madires

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 02:05:53 pm »
From /.:
Quote
The outage is being attributed to problems at the Precise Timing Facility in Italy.

So they have to fix that SPOF before going fully operational.
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 06:41:31 pm »
Supposedly there is a backup timing facility in Germany...   oops... this saga just gets better...
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 07:42:17 am »
This is painful and also a wonderful demonstration of the vulnerability of the system if we ever need to use it in anger, which would mean a conflict with the US.
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 08:48:23 am »
When I was interested in GPS a while back I seem to remember the space segment had an autonomous mode that did not rely on ground stations.... Does Galileo not have this?

PS
Who cares... Post Halloween the UK will be out and will Germany be able to justify the project?
 

Offline Towger

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 09:31:41 am »
Who cares... Post Halloween the UK will be out and will Germany be able to justify the project?

I am sure the workers in Surrey Satellite Technology worry about it!
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2019, 09:33:47 am »
People use Galileo?  :o
 
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Offline Towger

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 09:41:21 am »
People use Galileo?  :o

No, which is why no one noticed for few days.  However, my cheap Chinese phone receives them, pity none of my GPSDOs do.  There is a phone 'app' called GPSTest which has Satellite status screens much like Lady Heather's, which is worth a look.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2019, 09:48:05 am »
All the satellites go down? I've seen this before...

 
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Offline ogden

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2019, 10:29:40 am »
People use Galileo?  :o

Cant hesitate to state obvious: yes they do, usually w/o even knowing that. Now there are >795m devices with seamless multi-constellation support. The more satellites you can receive - the better positioning performance/resolution. It's also good in case one of the systems goes down ;)
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2019, 10:45:25 am »
People use Galileo?  :o
Cant hesitate to state obvious: yes they do, usually w/o even knowing that. Now there are >795m devices with seamless multi-constellation support. The more satellites you can receive - the better positioning performance/resolution. It's also good in case one of the systems goes down ;)

My Huawei phone only has GPS and GLASNOSS.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2019, 10:51:22 am »
You just know when 'An Anomaly Review Board has been immediately set up to analyse the exact root cause and to implement recovery actions.' it is going to take a very long time to fix.

'Users will be informed regularly, including on the service recovery date.'

https://www.gsc-europa.eu/news/update-on-the-availability-of-some-galileo-initial-services
 
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Offline ogden

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 10:59:03 am »
My Huawei phone only has GPS and GLASNOSS.

Then your phone most likely is older than few years. Also not in this list (currently 145 phones): https://www.usegalileo.eu/EN/inner.html#data=smartphone. BTW Huawei P30 have dual frequency receiver :)
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2019, 11:01:28 am »
The difference between GPS and GNSS is the initial intention. GPS is military and Galileo is civilian.
My iPhone 8 has Assisted GPS, GLONASS, Galileo en QZSS. Since not all systems offer similar coverage in all parts of the world.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2019, 11:07:53 am »
My Huawei phone only has GPS and GLASNOSS.

Then your phone most likely is older than few years. Also not in this list (currently 145 phones): https://www.usegalileo.eu/EN/inner.html#data=smartphone. BTW Huawei P30 have dual frequency receiver :)

It's a Mate 20
It's in the list but I see no option for Galileo in the software  :-//
There is an option to switch on GLASNOSS but it off by default because it chews more power.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2019, 11:12:13 am »
They have broken radio silence on Twitter, but no meaningful response to questions:

Quote
And what if Iranian subversive military cells, for example, do terrorist attacks on your ground Precise Timing Facilities in Fucino and Oberpfaffenhofen? @NATO

 

Offline ogden

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2019, 12:10:06 pm »
It's a Mate 20
It's in the list but I see no option for Galileo in the software  :-//

Sorry, no xperience with Huawei. What I can tell - multiple constellations helps. I saw significant improvement in urban (narrow streets) positioning when I upgraded from "GPS only" to "GPS + Glonass". Thanx to Japan you could be interested in QZSS phone list: https://qzss.go.jp/en/usage/products/list.html.
 

Offline Zucca

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2019, 12:35:35 pm »
https://www.gsc-europa.eu/news/update-on-the-availability-of-some-galileo-initial-services

I know some Galileo core developers, I will ask and report back.

EDIT: They don't know either, they are just so imbarassed to talk about it. They promise to give me more details when they know.

PS: Keep a mission critical equipment/facility in Italy?  :-DD
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 12:42:21 pm by zucca »
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline madires

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Re: Galileo navigation system unusable
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2019, 12:50:26 pm »
Supposedly there is a backup timing facility in Germany...   oops... this saga just gets better...

Yep! In normal operation the German ground station controls the satellites and the Italian station takes care about the time synchronization. If one fails the other one is meant to take over. Apparently this didn't happen. Let's wait what they will find out.
 


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