Author Topic: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja  (Read 101954 times)

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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #375 on: June 20, 2022, 10:17:20 am »
In order to see secondary electron generation the vacuum would indeed need a turbo, but the system would probably also need baking and very careful consideration of leakages, both real and virtual.
Yup.... "I=e*f" method is need some lab-grade equipment, but they still can be reproduce at home.
Some detail about that method see into patent RU 2 478 974 C2
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #376 on: June 20, 2022, 09:33:06 pm »
On past week i'm ordered 100 meters of AVK-6  cable directly on factory "JSC 'OKB KP'" (Special Design Bureau of Cable Industry) at less 680 USD per 100m.
Ohhhh.... i can't stop.... today found new toy into JSC 'OKB KP' storage, it's hot chicks is called "86 meters of AVKTM-1".
It will be very interesting to connect it to my vibrator for compare performance with AVK-6.



« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 09:46:45 pm by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #377 on: June 23, 2022, 06:14:00 am »
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Online MrYakimovYA

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #378 on: June 24, 2022, 02:00:29 am »
Micron-GLIN v.2 PCB repository: https://github.com/shodanx/Micron-GLIN-v.2
Micron-GLIN v.2 schematic book: https://ampnuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Micron-GLIN-v.2-schematic-book.pdf
Hi!
Could you tell me what are you using as PE (Protection Earth) in your wall socket? Has your home PE conductor? As far as I know only modern russian home buildings have an earth protection system... Mine doesn't have it(((
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #379 on: June 24, 2022, 02:03:22 pm »
I don't have any earth pin into my wall sockets. As many houses.
Therefore i use pack of metals pole which i'm installed several years ago into garden, and thick cable lifted at several floors for connect lab.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 02:14:13 pm by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #380 on: June 29, 2022, 12:35:37 pm »
Firmware progress:
User interface - still in progress.
Main functionality - expanded with automatic recalculation ramp speed trough saved capacitors into EEPROM, for set current directly in amperes.

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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #381 on: July 01, 2022, 11:25:22 am »
About capacitance for create current.

Unfortunately vacuum capacitors shows unacceptable leakage through glass. I've try use metals ring and ring of graphite coating to add guard ring directly on glass, but isn't help.

For large capacitance 10pF, 100pF, 1nF, 10nF, and high value resistors i planned use full sapphire based electrometric relays-switch, witch i'm extracted from U5-11 v.2 soviet amplifier.
It be separate project of programmable electrometic tool for use together with GLIN and [spoiler!]electrometer[spoiler!].
For less 10pF capacitance i use separate capacitors.

Now i work on algorithm of digital compensate leakage and parasitic effects of large capacitors through realtime ramp speed correction.
Hope push commit to GitHub soon and make cool video after complete GLIN firmware.

Amp-porn: The switch (input jack is also sapphire based triax)






« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 11:57:53 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #382 on: July 02, 2022, 07:58:55 am »
Today mining results...
16 pcs sapphire, low charge injection relays Tg5.289.049
16 pcs sapphire small female triax. (2 pcs already used in project)
1 pcs sapphire big male triax.

Leakage each parts is less 100aA at 10V. Typically is ~10-20aA after several hours(up to days) hold at 10V.
But that parts don't liked change of potential, because sapphire rings discharged very slow to aA levels.

That scrap i extract from useless, but very rich V7E-42 external switch.
Unfortunately Fortunately!!! that switch not supported by V7E-42 electrometer, and used as full separate part with some separate external controller(type is unknown, not part of the electrometer kit).
Also build quality of that external switch is low... often air gaps between low quality PCB and relays pin is zero... :palm:
I'm think that switches be made for only one purpose: to be disassembled by next generation of crazy ampnuts  >:D







Note: Tg5.289.049 relays designed for soldering to PCB by 3 of 6 pins (coil and case), 3 electrometrical pin not connected to any PCB traces, they used only for air wiring technique.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 08:32:48 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #383 on: July 10, 2022, 01:08:24 am »
Ouch!
Today I caught myself on idea "that it would be good practice to make a Swiss knife from GLIN".
I started integrating the LEA-M8F module to the timebase board for provide time-autocalibration and disciplined oscillator features. And I also started thinking about installing an low INL ADC to "Output board" for self-calibrate INL of DAC and add electrometer functionality to GLIN.

I need to go group therapy urgently!!!! Otherwise it be a second long-long project like as my Ultra-Micron project witch i develop around 4 years....
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 01:10:53 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline macaba

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #384 on: July 10, 2022, 12:25:36 pm »
If you're enjoying it, then don't worry about it, I'll read your updates for the next 4 years!

Your modular approach means that you can get v1 working quickly and if you've still got motivation, carry on with upgrades.

Do you know which low INL ADC you might use?
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #385 on: July 10, 2022, 09:45:02 pm »
If you're enjoying it
Yes, fun it is most important!

Your modular approach means that you can get v1 working quickly and if you've still got motivation, carry on with upgrades.
V1 not modular, it be single PCB concept. But they shows - that idea is working.
V2, yes is modular now, main pros is easy to change everything.
PS. V2 alfa version of firmware is complete... lets try make video... >:D

Do you know which low INL ADC you might use?
I'm not sure yet.
Need consult with my smugglers. I dont know yet, what ADC they can get.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 09:48:13 pm by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #386 on: July 11, 2022, 03:53:55 am »
Amp-porn movie: testing user interface and main functions of new GLIN with 1nF capacitor.
https://ampnuts.com/micron-glin-v2-porn/
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Online HighVoltage

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #387 on: July 11, 2022, 06:28:10 am »
You have very interesting projects
Thanks for sharing
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Online ch_scr

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #388 on: July 11, 2022, 07:20:54 am »
Amp-porn movie: testing user interface and main functions of new GLIN with 1nF capacitor.
https://ampnuts.com/micron-glin-v2-porn/
Seems like your effort paid out and this one works even better than the last one, good job! Would you share a picture of how the capacitor was hooked up?
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #389 on: July 11, 2022, 07:32:53 am »
good job!
You have very interesting projects
Thanks! Glad to hear it!

Would you share a picture of how the capacitor was hooked up?
I use this simple tool. One jack is BNC for connect to GLIN, other is Molex 3-lug triax, connected via 1.5m cable to electrometer (Keysight 16494A-001 cable).
So far, I have not paid much attention to capacitors yet and other things out of GLIN. But try share more time for caps and tools....

PS.Now need make case for GLIN....
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Online ch_scr

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #390 on: July 11, 2022, 08:10:31 am »
I use this simple tool. One jack is BNC for connect to GLIN, other is Molex 3-lug triax, connected via 1.5m cable to electrometer (Keysight 16494A-001 cable).
Wow, and for ground return current, just screws / washers biting through aluminium oxide layer are enough?  :scared:
That's... mostly an accidental path? Is there actually a DC connection between the two outer connector shells?
Or will return current take long way around device grounding loop? I'm surprised it's this good like this?!  :o
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #391 on: July 11, 2022, 08:35:55 am »
No ground current, because signal ground of electrometer is inner shield.
Inner shield(signal ground) connected to outer shield(electrometer case ground) only into a single point. (on rear terminals)
Signal ground of electrometer provide only one feature in this connection - guarding of inner core of cable. (not used, just floating into capacitor box)
GLIN is full isolated circuits, moreover, main toroidal transformer of GLIN contains shield winding to minimize winding capacitance.

I'll try show circuit later...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 08:47:05 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #392 on: July 11, 2022, 09:19:35 am »
just screws / washers biting through aluminium oxide layer are enough?  :scared:
You means resistance of Aluminum oxide layer?
Wall end of aluminum box parts is vanished from paint to provide good connections between outer shield of a triax and shield of GLIN cable.
Aluminum oxide layer is may provide problems, but magic is - you can put some KOhm  resistor between signal ground of a GLIN and ground of a electrometer without any problem. You may add any offset between grounds... Electrometer can contains any input bias.... Ramp through capacitor is eliminate any offset to negligible.
I=C*dU/dt - no static U or R parts into formula :)

Otherwise - if you generate current with HiMeg resistors, electrometer input bias is important error source. Because I=U/R, it means - any parasitic voltage or resistance factors add an error.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 09:36:33 am by shodan@micron »
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Online ch_scr

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #393 on: July 11, 2022, 09:31:25 am »
just screws / washers biting through aluminium oxide layer are enough?  :scared:
You means resistance of Aluminum oxide layer?
Wall end of aluminum box parts is vanished from paint to provide good connections between outer shield of a triax and shield of GLIN cable.
Aluminum oxide layer is may provide problems, but magic is - you can put some KOhm  resistor between signal ground of a GLIN and ground of a electrometer without any problem. You may add any offset between grounds... Electrometer can contains any input bias.... Ramp through capacitor is eliminate any offset to negligible.

Otherwise - if you generate current with HiMeg resistors, electrometer input bias is important error source.
Thank you, that answers my question.
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #394 on: July 18, 2022, 01:47:41 am »
Today I caught myself on idea "that it would be good practice to make a Swiss knife from GLIN".
:palm:
Yes... it starts looks like as Swiss knife...

Next revision of "Timebase board":
10MHz OCXO is disciplined now, also added two output for 1PPS and 10MHz disciplined clocks.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 02:17:39 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #395 on: July 19, 2022, 12:34:48 am »
Redesign complete, PCB ordered today :popcorn:



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Offline branadic

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #396 on: July 19, 2022, 07:09:22 pm »
What's the purpose of magic voodoo slots around OCXO? Is it just for the fancy look of it?  :-//

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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #397 on: July 19, 2022, 07:34:10 pm »
This is anti-crysis  ;D slots, it helps save heat and drop down power consumption.
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #398 on: July 20, 2022, 05:42:14 am »
Fortunately  ;D my Symmetricom 58532A GPS L1 reference antenna do not support GLONASS and BeiDou, therefore need build my own GNSS antenna.



« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 09:08:12 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline shodan@micron

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Re: Measuring nanoamps and below like a Ninja
« Reply #399 on: July 21, 2022, 09:49:42 pm »
Ok, lets try build antenna after 1-1.5 months. My supplier say: we can try get the biggest Taoglas antenna GGSFTP.50.7.A.08 for nuts.  :popcorn:

It's large 50*50*7mm patch antenna, with better gain.

PCB dimensions also optimized for that antenna. (70*70mm)

Unfortunately that PCB must be 4 layers board with 125um prepreg for hit impedance easy, it a little bit more expensive, but i'll try order anyway.
It be a my first PCB for such high frequency.(1.56...1.6GHz) Earlier i'm build transceivers only for low frequency's 1...30MHz for my radio-shack.
It is very interesting to get a experience with high frequency.  ;)

Hmmmm.... I=C*dU/dt amp-nuttery need a high frequency and connect to satellite constellations... LTZ1000 looks too boring...  :-DD
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 10:28:42 pm by shodan@micron »
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