Author Topic: Repair worklog : Old rusty HP 3458A  (Read 168230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline plesa

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 965
  • Country: se
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #100 on: September 29, 2015, 05:32:41 pm »
For similar cleaning tasks I used Cif Lemon with quite good results.It is not so powerfull as Scotch brite, but can dissolve lot of nasty stuff on old equipment.
http://www.amazon.com/Cif-Cream-Lemon-Fresh-500ml/dp/B00N4PVDJ0
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2015, 03:59:27 pm »
Got two fresh bottles of IPA 500ml. I'm ready now.

Also received 5pcs DS1230Y's.



Pity only 2 out of 5 works, rest giving errors with TL866. eBay is so eBay  :P

Meter digital side now starts, pass checksum and RAM tests, and giving ISOLATION ERROR (of course, nothing from analog side is even connected).
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 04:02:01 pm by TiN »
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline vtp

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2015, 05:50:42 pm »


That looks weird. U123 - U126 (if I am reading ref designators right) the four rightmost DS1230 NVRAMS in the picture should be volatile SRAMs 32kx8 (HM62256LP-12 in mine). I guess someone wanted to have non-volatile option 001.

I see you have REV6 firmware there. Easy enough to upgrade to REV8 or 9 by burning some new EPROMs. I did to REV8, comparing to REV9 there is not much difference.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 05:59:55 pm by vtp »
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2015, 06:58:44 pm »
Yey, success. This photo generated some head scratching! It's just for fun.
I don't have 32x8 memories at moment, but that's not important so far, as need repair meter first.

Firmware upgrades, tweaks, options will all be done much later, after we get all basic function and repairs complete.  ;)


YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2015, 10:52:01 am »
What is it, a little birdie brought something to us today?







Will it work?





YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2548
  • Country: gb
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2015, 11:29:29 am »
Well the LTZ1000 doesn't look like the pieces of turd I got:-DD

I'm sure you can knock up a test rig and leave it running to track its performance over the coming weeks while you get on with the rest of the job?  ;)
 

Online Dr. Frank

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1716
  • Country: de
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2015, 11:33:07 am »
What is it, a little birdie brought something to us today?




Will it work?

Definitely, looks like an original board.

The reference is missing the plastic caps, on top and bottom, for the urgently necessary protection against air draught.

I also recommend to directly pimp this reference to 65°C. (quasi opt 02)
If you do so, you won't need the original plastic caps, which need to withstand the 95°C oven temperature.

FW version 8 is recommended, as the elder ones still contain some bugs.
9 is identical in functionality, only a few bytes were changed (unknown relevance)

You also assembled nv-SRAMs for the opt 1 memory (+128kB).. nice idea.. that might save its content, if the FW does not initialize it always during boot.. please report, if that works.

Frank
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:36:41 am by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2015, 11:36:07 am »
Weeks? Excuse me, I don't have so much patience, man.

Digikey box with fan, caps and mains filter should be here tomorrow, and only Keysight parts package stuck somewhere in Taiwan's airport :(

I'll run tests on LTZ module today, interested to compare it to my own LTZ modules. Probably will put both into foam box with TEC and measure them over 25 to 50C temperature span. Resistors used in HP module are not that amazing.
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2015, 11:42:02 am »
Dr.Frank, I'll do it all, believe me. Something tells me, that you did not see actual article draft I'm working on as repair advances. It have all details you are talking about, including modification details, which you covered on voltnut list. ;)

eBay seller also decent guy, and agreed to send 3 new DS1230's, no questions or return asked. Thumbs up for them.

I'll use pieces of hitemp foam around zener first.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:43:47 am by TiN »
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2015, 03:23:00 pm »
It's alive!



About +7.07421 VDC @26.5°C ambient. My 2002 is few ~30ppm's low compared to 2001 Cal, but it's somewhere there.
One good thing about used references, they likely to be nicely aged. LTZ1000A on this one is made in 1993, in case someone miss it. Zeners like wine, only better with time.
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline pelule

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 509
  • Country: de
  • What is business? It’s other people’s money
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #110 on: October 01, 2015, 06:41:00 pm »
Quote
    **
Dr.Frank, I'll do it all, believe me. Something tells me, that you did not see actual article draft I'm working on as repair advances. It have all details you are talking about, including modification details, which you covered on voltnut list. ;)
I have read, very nice and informative, seems to be a bunch of work.
What the reason to not list the specs of the still available tools in you comparison?
It may good also helpful to note, what timeframe the spec is given for (I assume it s the 1 year accuracy).
You will learn something new every single day
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2015, 04:23:54 am »
Mmm, I don't see need of doing that, as specification are easy to find, and it's a lot of data and tables to mess with.
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #112 on: October 03, 2015, 04:24:09 pm »
Guilty by age

That's it, you read it correct. While my package with urgently needed new transformer sitting in post office warehouse, collecting dust, I decided to finish up with outguard boards.

Since I bet all of you already tired as hell watching multimegabyte photos, let's do something different today:



5 hours worth timelapse, one shot every minute, 4K resolution. Actually I wanted livestream on youtube first, but they changed stuff around again, need use some dodgy 3rd party software (NONE of which worked on my Win2008, DOH!), so I gave up after waste of 1 hour, and used my trusty repaired Nikon D3 to shot timelapse.

-----

Alright, what was going on there?

A5 board

Replaced original rusty GPIB connector with fresh one from dead 33120A PCB, I had around.



Quiz for readers : what are those funny traces with cutout do?  :-/O

After connector replacement (had to saw it a bit, as it's mounted to PCB using rivets!). No, I don't have a drill, so used hand mill instead.

Then boring part, water+IPA bath for PCBA:



A6 board

Now while A5 rests drying out, I took a close look on A6 outguard PSU board.

Removing VFD supply boardie:



It's a TDK-CD1867N DC-DC/DC-AC module

Now since monday I will have my Digikey package with new caps, I removed old ones. They looked alright, so most of you guys would think - hey, those caps probably okay, don't waste your time?

Nah, better be safe than sorry... Get out!



Oh boy...  :-- Mr.Leaky there..



Small ones did not do any damage (yet), but bigger ones...



Oh-ho-ho. Glad I removed them. And glad HP 3458A using only 2-layer PCBs, so I'll just clean it to shiny copper, add thermal-resistant mylar cover around pins , just in case.
Caps I bought are long-life 5000hrs @+105°C, so should work a treat.

I was wondering and measured old caps too, for series capacitance and resistance:





I have few more videos (usual ones, not timelapse) of cleaning. I can upload that too, if anyone wants here. It's boring tho.

So people, learn the lesson today, capacitors are only worse with age, not better like voltage references. 10 years passed? Replace them now!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 04:50:41 pm by TiN »
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline ManateeMafia

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 719
  • Country: us
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #113 on: October 03, 2015, 05:32:33 pm »
I have a couple that are older than yours. I guess I will have to add some caps to my next order and save it for a rainy day project. Have you decided to replace the large one on the inguard ps? I think it is C09. I don't see it on your Digi-key order.

No idea about the traces. They appear to be used as decoupling capacitors.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #114 on: October 03, 2015, 05:39:42 pm »
C09 later, Digikey have none in stock.
C08 and C07 2200uF 35V's I already had, no leaking on board from original ones, so I did not take a photo.

Also I had A9 board running last few days non-stop, recording max/min deviation, and recorded it as 3uV/-7uV ,
which according to my room temperature span about 6°C, gives relative stability about than 0.02ppm/C, combined with LTZ1000A in K2002 itself (as I'm not sure if my K2002 goes up or down with temperature rise).

There is no useful meaning of this data, except fact that it's not doing any sketchy business and stays where it should be. So I'm pretty confident now to use A9 REF from eBay in 3458A on monday.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 06:11:06 pm by TiN »
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline OldSchoolTechCorner

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 327
  • Country: us
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #115 on: October 03, 2015, 06:21:04 pm »
I can't wait till get mines, as planning a OCD restoration on it. Always change the capacitors, they will destroy the traces and pads, as electrolyte act as a acid, even if they test good. 
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2015, 06:25:18 pm »
OCD? I can't wait for yours too, double fun is better than single! Join us  :blah:
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3021
  • Country: ca
  • GHz
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2015, 09:59:37 pm »

Quiz for readers : what are those funny traces with cutout do?  :-/O


Spark gap I am thinking.
VE7FM
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2548
  • Country: gb
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #118 on: October 03, 2015, 11:11:58 pm »
Never mind all that, I had to laugh at that funny little black gremlin introduced around 00:15 in the video (and quickly disappeared)
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2015, 05:34:10 am »
TheSteve  :-+, Bingo. I believe Dave was explaining this kind of spark gaps on PSU PCB before in some episode in the past.

Macbeth  :-DD Quickly disappearing gremlin made my morning. New mascot?  ^-^
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #120 on: October 05, 2015, 04:38:42 am »
Yey, I got parts. Christmas came early in this house  ^-^  :popcorn:

And it's obvious I screw up with Digikey's order, as got only 1pcs 680uF 50V capacitor ,while need two.  :palm:
Will have to do quick run to local electronic stores to see if I can snag some caps.

Photos and video are coming tonight.  ;)
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline Theboel

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 223
  • Country: id
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #121 on: October 05, 2015, 12:55:38 pm »
@ TIN, How many hours You sleep every day ?  :-+

 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #122 on: October 05, 2015, 01:03:16 pm »
Sleep? What is that. :)

Just got extra caps. Local shops have nothing, only crappy nonames most of the time, forget alone axial high capacitance caps. Will bodge radial 8200uF one instead on axial on A6 board.
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #123 on: October 05, 2015, 05:47:25 pm »
Alright, assembled everything back together (sorta), getting ISOLATOR FAILURE. Voltages out of inguard PSU are fine now (5.004, +18.34, -18.66, -21.x), LTZ gives it's 7.07VDC, fan receiving it's 15V, but getting stuck with this isolator thingy...
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 

Offline TiN

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4050
  • Country: us
  • xDevs.com/live - 24/7 lab feed
    • xDevs.com
Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #124 on: October 05, 2015, 05:59:28 pm »
Hm, I have a suspect - transmitter J102, I can barely see it's red light, while other ones are pretty bright red. Perhaps dodgy LED in it?
YouTube | Chat room | Live-cam | Have documentation to share? Upload here! No size limit, firmware dumps, photos.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf