Author Topic: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250  (Read 18843 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SoundTech-LG

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 575
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #100 on: September 04, 2020, 04:17:36 pm »
Interesting those shell hacks...  spent considerable time with and got nowhere. Not sure if it is a user error or what.
 

Offline AlexJackson

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 25
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2020, 11:39:16 pm »
An update on my s200 'upgrade'. Didn't go well for the main reason for the upgrade, the OCXO. I ran into a few 'issues'.

The installation of the new BNC jacks went well, and the holes drilled ok with my old half-dull step bit. I haven't verified the signals yet until I verify the device comes back up with a good lock.

I couldn't cleanly remove the solder from the center pin on the OCXO (pin #2) with a de-soldering bulb (suck or blow). There was something stuck it so I had to use my fine point iron, get it hot and push it through the hole. I did get some crap out of it that didn't want to melt with my iron. That process took 30 minutes. I did get the new oscillator installed. Jumped R121 with jumper and installed a jumper on J3. The whole installation the new oscillator took me 2 hours with all the cascade of issues I encountered with my iron, soldering station, finding my stuff (it was all moved, and I don't have a true "bench"). Lots of running around involved.

Turns out my card reader is messed up so I cant use the 1.36 image to flash the new image to the CF card and I don't own a programmer. Unless if someone knows how to do the root hack with v1.10. (none of the hacks discussed work on 1.10).

updates:
1. The inputs & outputs work great and the system indicates lock when I do a loopback.
2. Turns out, the cord for my card reader was shot, and my partner had an old cord that fit. I was able to image 1.36, and bust out to a terminal and run seeprom to change the oscillator type.

Without J3 jumped, even when set to the OCXO in seeprom, it will show TCXO in the interface and in ssh. Once J3 is installed it shows as OCXO.

So in the end, the upgrade was a success, but v1.36 still doesn't work properly with my vfd and shows several issues. Unless someone has another version of the OS I'll have to remain on v1.10.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 12:38:34 am by AlexJackson »
 

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 553
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #102 on: September 08, 2020, 05:43:20 pm »
I never had VFD issues with the 1.36 version that's really strange problem for sure.
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline AlexJackson

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 25
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #103 on: September 12, 2020, 10:33:26 pm »
Strange indeed... So today I swapped cards and changed the model type from S200 to S250 (since i now have the I/O jacks) and the VFD and status pages on the VFD are still acting strange.

Whether or not if I have a GPS lock, it will show on the first line, "REF:           " & on the second line, "NTP Stratum 1". Sometimes I'll see "REF: Pkt Err" flash frequently on the VFD. The Sync LED will swap between red & green as well as the "Alarm" LED. Even when the Alarm LED is red, no alarms show on the admin page.

I've messed around with it a lot today, and havent been able to suss out whats going on. I'm going to guess my device has some older hardware that the new firmware doesn't like, or the firmware updates also updates firmware on the peripherals such as the VFD.
 

Offline TheWizard

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #104 on: February 09, 2021, 09:59:18 pm »
This thread is getting old, but, was very helpful in getting some older Symmetricom S2xx units up and running, so I thought I would summarize and consolidate everything I've learned here.

The key upgrades for most of these units will be software, Vectron MC597X4-040W OCXO, and an upgraded I-Lotus M12MT/IL-GPS-0030-B GPS receiver board.

To install the Vectron OCXO, purchase from ebay or elsewhere, and solder the oscillator in place on the main board. The board is multilayer FR4 glass/epoxy, so you have to carefully put some heat into soldering the OCXO pins to get good connection.  Then bridge R121 with solder to connect the OCXO 10Mhz output and put a jumper on JP3 to disable the TCXO. Ssh into the unit over lan-1 with admin and enter the following command: root eng sys cat "/dev/null && bash"

CD to the /sbin folder and run: ./seeprom

Select option 38 and set oscillator type to 1 for OCXO (0 is TCXO, 2 is X72 Rubidium Osc).  Then select option 4 to update checksum.....this must be done. Type "exit", then type "reboot".  If your firmware also needs updated, you can avoid updating the eprom by simply installing the OCXO first, then running the software update from the web gui.  This will automatically scan the system and set osc type automatically.

The factory Motorola/Furuno/M12 GPS board has a rollover date in September of 2022. The I-Lotus (IL-GPS-0030-B) is a direct compatible replacement and costs $65 and is good for 20 years from the date of the sticker on the board. Simply remove 4-screws and swap the boards.

For software upgrades, 1.36.1 from 2015 is the latest firmware for S2xx units.  Firmware upgrade files along with a complete 1.30 runtime image that will fit on any 512mb flash card are included in the link below. These avoid the previous issues of odd-size/too small flash card.  The upgrade files are untouched with matching SHA-1 checksum and should work on any S2xx unit with a factory 512mb flash card.

Symmetricom Files

*** Files link updated 7/9/21 to publicly shared Google Drive ***
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 07:27:22 am by TheWizard »
 

Offline deepskyridge

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #105 on: March 27, 2021, 06:05:20 pm »
Anyone found a good source for the new iLotus GPS board. I have not been able to find one.

Thanks
Gary
 

Offline wje

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #106 on: April 13, 2021, 06:00:04 pm »
I was overjoyed to find this topic, useful information on these is apparently scarce. There are some S250's with the 48VDC supply input showing up on EPray recently, I snagged one.

Mine came with V1.30 installed. I immediately did a hardware mod to supply 5V to the antenna instead of 12V. It's a pretty trivial change, if anyone is interested, I'll post details.

I'm installing a Vectron ocxo, just came today.

One issue, I tried upgrading with the 1.36 update distribution above, not the image, but the actual upgrade file. It fails, logs say 'incorrect hardware version'. Anyone have any clues about this? Meantime, I'll try the image route when I add the ocxo.

BTW, this unit is really easy to hack Linux-wise. I'm surprised Symmetricom didn't lock it down more. Really, a 'settings backup' that's a straight tar of various Linux dirs? But it does make hacking a lot simpler.

Bill
 

Offline wje

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2021, 12:37:06 pm »
Update - neither the 1.36 upgrade path nor the 1.36 image posted here on a Delkin CF work. The image starts loading the OS, then hangs. Guess I'm stuck with 1.30. Status page reports 'Authentic AMD Geode ... 500. This is one of the x86 clones they got from National Semi. Not sure what mfg date is, random stickers inside the box with fairly high rev letters (G, H, etc). Hardware clock version is 1.83. Running sw version is pc_target.chronos.1.667.13.1551430. Any help appreciated. OTOH, ocxo is working fine.

Bill
 

Offline SoundTech-LG

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 575
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #108 on: April 17, 2021, 03:26:05 pm »
Did you try resetting to defaults first??? Worth a try.
 

Offline wje

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #109 on: April 17, 2021, 03:42:36 pm »
Oops, pilot error. The upgrade tar applied fine once I figured out that when the manual said "don't uncompress the tar", that didn't mean "don't unzip the zip file with the tar in it". Duh. Bare tar updated fine. So, I'm now in the ranks of S250 owners with an ocxo upgrade, root login via ssh, and V1.36 sw. Sweet.
 

Offline deepskyridge

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2021, 09:44:36 pm »
I don't seem to be able to get the root hack to work. When I try SSH login it does not know about user root.

I have tried at least twice.

Gary
 

Offline TheWizard

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #111 on: June 14, 2021, 12:59:03 am »
You cannot ssh directly with root user.  Ssh first to the lan-1 IP address with the same admin user/pass credentials as the web gui. Once logged in then enter: root eng sys cat "/dev/null && bash"

The iLotus GPS board can be purchased with credit card from Synergy Systems in San Diego Ca.  https://synergy-gps.com
Part# is: IL-GPS-0030-B

As posted above, the gui firmware update files in the link have to be first unzipped, then apply only the rar file.   :-+
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 553
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #112 on: June 18, 2021, 05:03:44 pm »
Looks like I need to work on my stack of S200's again some more!  This image that will fit on more of the many cards is big plus thanks for linking to a version that can fit easier.  :-+ ;D

Bill
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline deepskyridge

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #113 on: June 21, 2021, 02:51:39 pm »
Wizard, thanks for the information.

I have my 200 upgraded and working.

Gary
 

Offline TheWizard

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #114 on: July 09, 2021, 07:54:17 am »
NP

To clarify, the linked 1.30 firmware image can be burned to any 512mb CF card (I also tested a few 1gb and 2gb cards and they worked fine) using the included RawCopy tool.....no need to fool around with the weird sizing issues in earlier posts.  For those that obtain S2xx units with dead/missing CF cards, this is needed to get the system booted.  The 1.30 firmware image was copied from a brand-new S250 as a backup. 

From a security perspective, there is no way to verify the integrity (I assure you it's clean) of the 1.30 image I provided, so after getting a S2xx booted it is important to unzip the 1.36 firmware package and use the gui to apply the tar update file. If you have a MicroSemi/Microchip support account, you can verify that the MD5/SHA1 hashes in the zip files are legit and the update tar files are untouched. 

These units run a fairly old version of Linux that has not been patched in quite some time.  However, the way Symmetricom designed the OS is highly customized/specific to their use and hardened in ways that are not dependent on file patching, so I would not worry much about attack surface. 

When a firmware update is run from the gui, the process exchanges private encryption keys which invoke secured check scripts that parse root for cleanup, file signatures, permissions, and other security details.  Anything "extra" in the system gets cleaned out or overwritten during upgrades, so if you have these units providing NTP services to public clients, it might be advisable to periodically re-run the 1.36 update.

I also included the latest S3xx firmware update file in case anyone also has one of those units. Cheers.  :-+

Symmetricom Files
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 08:19:07 am by TheWizard »
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline SoundTech-LG

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 575
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #115 on: July 11, 2021, 03:37:05 am »
Just found one of my CF cards with V. 1.36 on it that is only 510MB easily fitting on the 512 CF cards.

Here it is...   https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g2oi29c4k91afp/V.%201.36%20510MB.imgc?dl=0

It has the Default login credentials except Symmetricom is with the UPPERCASE S
Hope that saves you a few steps!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 04:55:21 am by SoundTech-LG »
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline SoundTech-LG

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 575
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #116 on: July 11, 2021, 04:48:10 am »
I added another image file for v. 1.36.  This one is completely factory defaulted. When you default the unit, the file size on the card grows to the max size of the CF card. (is that a feature???) This CF card is 512.48 MB. Still possible that a lot of CF cards are at least that big.
So here is the link... 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4emcefkge7ipj8/V.%201.36%20Defaulted_512.48MB.imgc?dl=0
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline keitho

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #117 on: July 19, 2021, 11:26:04 pm »
I was overjoyed to find this topic, useful information on these is apparently scarce. There are some S250's with the 48VDC supply input showing up on EPray recently, I snagged one.

Mine came with V1.30 installed. I immediately did a hardware mod to supply 5V to the antenna instead of 12V. It's a pretty trivial change, if anyone is interested, I'll post details.

I'm installing a Vectron ocxo, just came today.

One issue, I tried upgrading with the 1.36 update distribution above, not the image, but the actual upgrade file. It fails, logs say 'incorrect hardware version'. Anyone have any clues about this? Meantime, I'll try the image route when I add the ocxo.

BTW, this unit is really easy to hack Linux-wise. I'm surprised Symmetricom didn't lock it down more. Really, a 'settings backup' that's a straight tar of various Linux dirs? But it does make hacking a lot simpler.

Bill

Please post details on your 5V antenna mod!
I just got two s200 units that I intend to use as NTP servers for my network, and I would prefer not to have to buy $300 antennas if I don't have to.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf