Author Topic: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250  (Read 49041 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2020, 04:08:07 pm »
Sounds as if any size CF card should work then, as long as it's bigger than 512 MB  ???
 

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2020, 04:49:52 pm »
I sincerely hope so ST but the way one of mine doesn't like the 512M card with an image that fits make me think either there's something wrong with one of mine or they are just really flaky with CF cards?  The 1G was the only card I could find that could boot 1.36 at all.  I'll have to look if any of my original 512M CF from factory are big enough for that image.  I'm also going to try my working 1G 1.36 in my other unit that's currently running 1.30 and is my main hooked up unit right now.  The eeprom editing tool works when you are in bash in sys mode without a hitch.  I'm interested in adding more x72 to more units without it and converting them to s250's.  It's an approximately 300$ upgrade by itsself.  I have 4 pairs of the dual BNC's now and have been procrastinating drilling into the back of the case(s)... have you taken the whole motherboard out of a unit yet before?  Another update since I switched from my cheap tiny cable GPS 12V antenna and got a real symmetricom antenna and it made all the difference.  Without it even mounted on my roof and just sitting in the first floor window sill between two tall houses I get 3-5 SATS all day long!  I can't stress how much this was different.  Now I'm looking Active GPS Splitters... OMG it's more C notes! :scared:

Bill
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 04:55:28 pm by notfaded1 »
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2020, 09:41:20 pm »
The Symmetricom/HP splitters work great...  I use them for my S250s and SecureSync and 9483 Netclock units as well.

Don't stress about taking out the motherboard...  piece of cake. Just be careful, and take your time.
Drilling out the back is just the plastic overlay, the metal holes are there already. Just use a tiny drill, and work your way up to the final size to lessen cracking of the plastic. :-+
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline NA5WH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2020, 06:49:31 pm »
Snagged a S200 for a decent price, but had to order out the appropriate.  Went ahead and did the physical mods and added the jacks....   got the PPS (50% duty cycle) and the irig-b signal... both looks awesome, but not the 10 mhz..... just slight noise..   thought it was just the lack of receiver antenna... but yeah.. no luck today...    and I had put all the screw in retainers in...... 

Guess its time to go surfing for the signal...  had hoped not to have to do any more special mods... but such is life... ^_^
 

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2020, 08:12:24 pm »
Hi,

Sorry to hear you do not see the !0M signal. the first thing I did before touching anything was to probe at the pads for the connectors for the signals. They were all there. Then I proceeded to add in the jacks. You might want to check for open/short...
 

Offline NA5WH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2020, 09:23:21 pm »
yeah...... its going to be a short... where I don't know...... because its going to be one of those days.... flip her guts open and she's all "here is your 10 mhz right here.. its all good"  *sighs*

edit:
Adding some additional photos, in case it is useful for someone looking at the 48V DC version, and/or the OXCO version.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 09:47:54 pm by NA5WH »
 
The following users thanked this post: dj831

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2020, 09:51:46 pm »
Well I had not seen a 48V version, nor the OCXO version, so thanks!  Nice photos.
Will be nice to know what you find!
 

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #57 on: February 29, 2020, 03:34:12 am »
Like SoundTech-LG I hadn't seen the 48V or OCXO.  Mine are both standard AC and one is the base model and the other is the Rb.  We're always open to more info about the Syncservers!  I keep one running right next to my bench as an additional reference.  It's got an easy to read display from some distance.  Did you drill out your case and if so how?

Bill
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline NA5WH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #58 on: February 29, 2020, 04:36:30 am »
I was a bit naughty about removing the plastic covering the holes... I first drilled open from the inside with I think a 1/8th or maybe a bit bigger, as centered as possible. Then used a self-centering stepped-hole bit to open it up to the bnc size. It did remove the 'flat', but really its not like the bnc is going to rotate by any real margin, and the pain of trying to remove the plastic was not worth it.  Add the securing screws and can't tell a bit. 

Don't think I have a good photos of the input, but basically it has diversity of two 48-volt power supplies.   Little surprised to see a different GPS board from the ones on the thread. . It feels weird that my itty-bitty Ublox 7 receiver seems to be more sensitive with a lower-power pre-amp antenna than this board. But I do know ublox is not intended for timing purposes.

Downside is now I want to make a frequency counter and figure out if I can make something that resolves the IRIG-B time-code... its really interesting to see the waveform.
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #59 on: March 01, 2020, 05:57:46 am »
Thanks for showing your drilling... that's where I'm at now.  It looks good with the BNC locking bolts screwed down onto them.  I'm curious if you used any other compact flash cards and the version you are running?  I've had all kinds of fun with that.
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline NA5WH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2020, 06:28:18 pm »
Yeah if I had not tried to use a sharp knife thing before just using the right tool, I wouldn't have chipped the plastic color as much....   so think just using the step bit and going with the flow is the right way.

As for version, right now shows  1.36 Release version,  and hardware clock version 1.83

I don't have anything to write or read that kind of flash card. So have not attempted to convert it to the S250 software or anything.  I think the only thing that misses out on is syncing to input of 10mhz, etc....  which currently I dont have anything "better" in accuracy.
 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2020, 07:02:17 pm »
Yeah if I had not tried to use a sharp knife thing before just using the right tool, I wouldn't have chipped the plastic color as much....   so think just using the step bit and going with the flow is the right way.

As for version, right now shows  1.36 Release version,  and hardware clock version 1.83

I don't have anything to write or read that kind of flash card. So have not attempted to convert it to the S250 software or anything.  I think the only thing that misses out on is syncing to input of 10mhz, etc....  which currently I dont have anything "better" in accuracy.
If you connect to the serial port you can change the hardware model to S250... it's good to know the outputs are there even if you don't make the change though.  Thanks for that.  The hard part is finding a flash card that can hold the later software and boot.  I've tried many options and many don't work.
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2020, 08:45:56 am »
I was doing some hacking and have now enabled root logon via SSH
if there is a easier way feel free to tell me I wasting my time.  And yes I know you can get a console port @ 9600 baud but ssh is nicer


otherwise

perform a backup and do a save-as to get a backup downloaded
open the backup in a zip until such as 7-zip
inside you will see config-1.2.tar.gz
open this in 7zip
then open config-1.2.tar in 7zip
you now have 2 directories
/etc
/var
go into /etc
open and edit shadow (the password file)
the root account looks like this
root:*:14012::::::
the * mean root can not logon
change to
root:$1$uV2.fU1.$UFcRU1rZDB5NJElVrwIR11:14012::::::
that will give root same password as admin (ie symmetricom)
save
if prompted to update the backup file do so
now go to /etc/ssh
edit sshd_config
find
PermitRootLogin no
change to
PermitRootLogin yes
save file
if prompted to update the backup file do so
close the archive
if prompted to update the backup file do so
go to the wizard and restore using the backup file you just updated


« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 10:44:12 pm by smgvbest »
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 
The following users thanked this post: DavidKo, notfaded1

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2020, 10:40:55 pm »
FWIW,

/sbin/seeprom  as root lets you read and set EEPROM values



/home/fpgademo lets you read and set FPGA values



Also,
From what I can decern the week number roller over occurs in the FPGA.
anyone good as reversing bitcode???
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 10:43:12 pm by smgvbest »
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 
The following users thanked this post: SoundTech-LG

Offline 8bit

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2020, 11:32:31 pm »
There are at least four locations where the system can have trouble with dates:
 1) GPS: All the boards have a WNRO issue. Sometimes the software can account for it and extend the date.
 2) Linux: This is a 32-bit system. We are closer to 2038 than Y2K!
 3) Symmetricom code: FPGA and other unknown internals.
 4) NTP: This version is getting older by the minute. Without the source for the FPGA driver and hardware clock you can't update it.

There are at least two GPS boards used in the systems: The Motorola M12+T (mostly older) and The Furuno GT-8031 (mostly newer R version).

I have a GPS simulator so I can throw some dates at it and see what happens (Linux, NTP, IRIG, some utilities).

I tried the newer GT-8736 as a drop-in replacement and it "mostly" worked. The other one to try is the Synergy/i-Lotus, but I don't have one yet.


 
The following users thanked this post: notfaded1

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2020, 01:41:30 am »
FWIW,

/sbin/seeprom  as root lets you read and set EEPROM values

(Attachment Link)

/home/fpgademo lets you read and set FPGA values

(Attachment Link)

Also,
From what I can decern the week number roller over occurs in the FPGA.
anyone good as reversing bitcode???
Thanks for the true root hack!  You could run the seeprom without root before and admin but root is better for other things to investigate more hacks.  I'm going to root mine too now!  That was smart using the products own config file save feature to edit the shadow file!  So easy duh!  I never even looked at the saved config... I didn't know it contained the shadow file from /etc.

Bill
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 03:23:20 am by notfaded1 »
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2020, 02:23:26 pm »
All very interesting stuff!!  Now if i can get enough confidence to try some of this. Very grateful for all this info!!!

 

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2020, 02:53:24 pm »
All very interesting stuff!!  Now if i can get enough confidence to try some of this. Very grateful for all this info!!!
What we need is a solution for the compact flash cards that work every time.  I've tried a few and it's a total crap shoot and most don't work.  I had some luck with the one Gig card.  I may try some more of them vs. more 512MB ones.
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2020, 03:18:39 pm »
Looking back through my posts here, I do see I might have used 1 GB card successfully as well. Forgot about that. Have you tried multiple 1 GB cards, or just the one?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 03:21:22 pm by SoundTech-LG »
 

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2020, 02:31:08 pm »
Looking back through my posts here, I do see I might have used 1 GB card successfully as well. Forgot about that. Have you tried multiple 1 GB cards, or just the one?
I've tried just one so far with some success.  I've found with 1.36 it boots and runs but I've had issues with the webserver on it for some reason.  Now that the real root method was posted I may root it to do more lower level testing on the NIC in the unit.  With real root I'll be able to edit files and do things I couldn't do with admin account.  I'll be able to troubleshoot the webserver much better.

Once I get a good 1.36 version that boots off 1G card and fully works I'll post it.
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2020, 11:46:55 pm »
On the CF CARDs,   on thing I've noticed is it's mine went looking at the boot screen started to do a fsck saying it wasn't clean and that lasted allong time.
wondering if it's possible that what is happening to others.   I pulled the card and i'm going to load it up onto linux and run a fsck there then try to boot again
here's the partitian table from the 512MB drive that is in my S250

Code: [Select]
root@SyncServer:/dev/discs/disc0# fdisk /dev/discs/disc0/disc

Command (m for help): p

Disk /dev/discs/disc0/disc: 524 MB, 524353536 bytes

17 heads, 60 sectors/track, 1004 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 1020 * 512 = 522240 bytes

                Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
/dev/discs/disc0/part1               1          35       17820   83  Linux // boot
/dev/discs/disc0/part2              36          51        8160   83  Linux  // persist
/dev/discs/disc0/part4              52         979      473280    5  Extended
/dev/discs/disc0/part5              52         416      186120   83  Linux  // root image 1
/dev/discs/disc0/part6             417         781      186120   83  Linux  // root image 2
/dev/discs/disc0/part7             782         979      100950   83  Linux // /mnt/upgrade

also it looks like TimeToHC12d is the main glue peice between the RTC maintained by the GPS/FPGA combo and Linux.


Does anyone have a extra Furuno GT-8031F laying around I could purchase from you?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 12:06:59 am by smgvbest »
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 
The following users thanked this post: SoundTech-LG, notfaded1

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2020, 02:08:09 pm »
All great work, and info!!!  :-+ 524 MB...  I take it this is version 1.36
have the Furuno, but it is installed in my S250/S200 modified.
 

Offline notfaded1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2020, 05:45:55 pm »
This isn't exactly cost effective but they're selling whole GPSDO units that have a GT-8031G in them:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Symmetricom-GPSDO-10MHz-1PPS-w-shield-GT-8031-Note-/312277068872

I'm not sure I understand his note about switches either... the post above in thread about looking for a substitute sounded promising too... I'd love to replace my GT-8031 with something better.  Most of the newer boards in the GT family don't use "NMEA like" protocol it looks like after checking their current products.  The newer products use a binary protocol.

This one has an GT-8031F board on it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-RCGD-M-GPSDO-10MHz-1PPS-w-GT-8031/312306276819

B
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 05:53:33 pm by notfaded1 »
.ılılı..ılılı.
notfaded1
 

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2020, 03:04:32 am »
Hi,
Well I got brave and tried it...  thought I had it down.
got Invalid command.
Not sure what I am doing wrong...
 

Offline SoundTech-LGTopic starter

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: us
Re: Symmetricom S200 Teardown/upgrade to S250
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2020, 01:30:14 pm »
So after a long tinkering around it appears that maybe the modified file is not getting uploaded back into the system. Not sure. Still trying to make this work.
Question...  should a new backup file saved after uploading the modified one, include all the changes? or, do defaults overwrite those changes each time it gets saved?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf