Author Topic: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A  (Read 2689 times)

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Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« on: January 15, 2025, 05:04:17 pm »
I recently acquired a NOS Agilent 34401A produced in 2014, from a large batch also mentioned in another thread on this website.

Unfortunately there was no Certificate of Calibration included in the box, so I like to get a fresh calibration. The old certificate isn't found anymore on the Keysight website.

Any ideas about calibration centers who also deal with private persons and capable of calibrating 6.5 digit multimeters? Preferrable mainland Europe. In the past I used Keysight Netherlands for calibrating DMM's and for calibrating RF Power meters and sensors a center in the UK, but I don't know if there are any problems after Brexit.
 

Offline Neganur

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2025, 09:14:38 pm »
Surely, Keysight Germany/Böblingen can cal 6.5 digit DMMs
US website lists some 300USD for the most basic cal so the EUR price should be similar, maybe some other place is cheaper.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 09:20:59 pm by Neganur »
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2025, 09:24:53 pm »
I get good service from Trescal UK, they are in NL, YMMV

https://www2.trescal.nl/en/
 

Offline Overspeed

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2025, 09:49:26 pm »
I get good service from Trescal UK, they are in NL, YMMV

https://www2.trescal.nl/en/

Hello

Trescal can do that . No need to send back to Agilent .  Trescal is in France too .

Regards
OS

 

Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2025, 10:35:42 pm »
Surely, Keysight Germany/Böblingen can cal 6.5 digit DMMs
US website lists some 300USD for the most basic cal so the EUR price should be similar, maybe some other place is cheaper.

Unfortunately Keysight doesn't deal with private persons anymore. In the past there was a special deal for about 175EUR but all prizes are rising
 

Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2025, 10:36:45 pm »
I get good service from Trescal UK, they are in NL, YMMV

https://www2.trescal.nl/en/

I will have a look at Trescal tomorrow.
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2025, 11:52:56 pm »
I get good service from Trescal UK, they are in NL, YMMV

https://www2.trescal.nl/en/
Could you give an idea of the sort of money they charge for a 6.5 digit meter in the UK? Only if you know if course - would save filling out the quote form.
 

Offline Overspeed

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2025, 10:56:45 am »
Hello

As you are not a company and I suppose not linked with a Quality system , that perhaps clever to purchase a good voltage source and an accurate reference resistor as Vishay VPR in 1K or 10K.

Regards
OS
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 10:58:53 am by Overspeed »
 

Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2025, 01:59:12 pm »
Hello

As you are not a company and I suppose not linked with a Quality system , that perhaps clever to purchase a good voltage source and an accurate reference resistor as Vishay VPR in 1K or 10K.

Regards
OS

But those have to be calibrated too. And what about the AC values and currents?
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2025, 03:12:39 pm »
sadly  find a good cal lab and do a full calibration   period

don't try to cut like other previous suggestions of buying resistors and or references  etc ...  as  they need to be certified ...   


you get into an endless loop, do it once and cleanly ... alas prices are going nuts at some facilities


 

Online mendip_discovery

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2025, 05:44:01 pm »
No issues here sending stuff over the water for calibration.

Personally I wouldn't use Tr*scal but that is a personal choice.

Look for 17025 accreditated labs near to you. Ask them if they are happy to do it. You should be able to look at thier schedule and see if they have a good enough uncertainty for you.
Motorcyclist, Nerd, and I work in a Calibration Lab :-)
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So everyone is clear, Calibration = Taking Measurement against a known source, Verification = Checking Calibration against Specification, Adjustment = Adjusting the unit to be within specifications.
 

Offline Overspeed

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2025, 07:00:45 pm »
sadly  find a good cal lab and do a full calibration   period

don't try to cut like other previous suggestions of buying resistors and or references  etc ...  as  they need to be certified ...   


you get into an endless loop, do it once and cleanly ... alas prices are going nuts at some facilities

Hello

''certified'' to do what ? display a costly calibration certificate on the wall ? If you take time to read this forum there is a lot of diy calibration with valuable results

ISO 17025 is perhaps useful IF you have Quality requirements from your customer , a 6.5 digits is not rocket science and you write ''certified'' I use Vishay Alpha and other Vishay brand they are truly respectable in tolerance and value.

PDVS2mini is also a respectable tool but there is other too .

Primary question is : Does the money I spend is useful regarding the goal I reach .

Regards
OS

« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 07:33:52 pm by Overspeed »
 

Offline Smoky

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2025, 07:11:01 pm »
For comparison, Cross Precision Measurements in Greensboro, North Carolina quoted me $418 to calibrate a 34401A.

https://www.crossco.com/services/calibration/electronics/multimeter-calibration/
 

Offline Overspeed

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2025, 07:18:09 pm »
For comparison, Cross Precision Measurements in Greensboro, North Carolina quoted me $418 to calibrate a 34401A.

https://www.crossco.com/services/calibration/electronics/multimeter-calibration/

Hello
Yes as a multimeter all ranges request lot of work and equipment , that also a way to request only partial calibration , this method is in use on test benches when multimeter are used only one function or some limited ranges .

Regards
OS
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 07:22:30 pm by Overspeed »
 

Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2025, 12:35:55 pm »
Got today reply from Trescal, they don't deal with private persons.
So will look further.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2025, 01:19:50 pm »
sadly  find a good cal lab and do a full calibration   period

don't try to cut like other previous suggestions of buying resistors and or references  etc ...  as  they need to be certified ...   


you get into an endless loop, do it once and cleanly ... alas prices are going nuts at some facilities

Hello

''certified'' to do what ? display a costly calibration certificate on the wall ? If you take time to read this forum there is a lot of diy calibration with valuable results

ISO 17025 is perhaps useful IF you have Quality requirements from your customer , a 6.5 digits is not rocket science and you write ''certified'' I use Vishay Alpha and other Vishay brand they are truly respectable in tolerance and value.

PDVS2mini is also a respectable tool but there is other too .

Primary question is : Does the money I spend is useful regarding the goal I reach .

Regards
OS

depends on what you do your work in ......     i work  with certified stuff   and i need certified equipment to do so,    no playing around,  they go on  very expensive companies equipment(s)

I can do stuff myself if i want to,   like many here ...

BUT there is a BUT   if a client ask me for the equipment certifications / happened before       i'm happy to show him that my stuff  is certified,  not played with  ....


there is an huge difference with what you do yourself  and what cal labs will do, and the reports they give to you and store in their database   ...

you can cal a 3458 yourself if you want,  but you need the same parts precision as keysight  for the 10vdc and 10k resistor,   lucky you    this meter only needs theses 2

Not all  works the same  ... 

i have spectrums, scopes, gens, meters etc ...    do you need reliable and precise measurements   or you'll always have some doubts ?


and lastly  the @op  bought an NOS meter,   that's okay .. i would be confident  80% of the time BUT  you do need to know  where the meter "is"  after many storage years,  if the OP intend to use the meter for precision stuff,   he need to know precisely if the meter is good or not,  if he doesn't have any reference to put it against

that's up to him or all of us

as  i wrote  i had 3 of them, one fully recapped, new vfd.   this one was calibrated,  the others 2 (with some repairs)  where put against it to see if they where ok, and they where ok

you need some references at some point ...  or get yourself some fluke calibrators  loll and you'll shell a lot more $$$   loll

« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 01:27:29 pm by coromonadalix »
 

Offline SHF

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Precision is no coincidence
 

Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2025, 09:59:36 am »
maybe here?

https://www.meta-m.de/Agilent-34401A-Multimeter-Kalibrierung/MMS13986

Thanks, I will send them an email. There is not much information about the service they offer and the quality and traceability on their website.
 

Offline SHF

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2025, 08:45:39 am »
In my opinion, these devices do not need any calibration at all, I compared mine with an even newer KS 34401 and the deviations are very very small

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/brand-new-agilent-34401a-in-europe-(france)/msg5777837/#msg5777837
Precision is no coincidence
 

Offline Overspeed

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2025, 01:26:22 pm »
In my opinion, these devices do not need any calibration at all, I compared mine with an even newer KS 34401 and the deviations are very very small

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/brand-new-agilent-34401a-in-europe-(france)/msg5777837/#msg5777837

Hello
Before to spend $$$ in calibration and shipping cost ( which are not free at all ) that can be clever to run a DIY check with one voltage source and one precision resistor as a Vishay VPR and assess before calibration.

Regards
OS
 

Offline pe1oxpTopic starter

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2025, 06:39:37 pm »
In my opinion, these devices do not need any calibration at all, I compared mine with an even newer KS 34401 and the deviations are very very small

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/brand-new-agilent-34401a-in-europe-(france)/msg5777837/#msg5777837

Hello
Before to spend $$$ in calibration and shipping cost ( which are not free at all ) that can be clever to run a DIY check with one voltage source and one precision resistor as a Vishay VPR and assess before calibration.

Regards
OS

Of course it is clever to check a multimeter before sending for calibration. In the 10V range it is OK, I checked with my other meters.
But in the past I had one meter which was out of specs in some resistor ranges after some years when sending in for calibration. So it is good to have some good history and getting a good feeling about it.

Buying some good stuff to check the multimeter isn't cheap also. For a good 10V voltage reference and good 10k resistor I can sent the multimeter almost 2 times to a calibration house and also those own references have to be checked regularly too.

I have sent some emails to local and German houses, I hope they will deal with private persons.
 

Offline timeandfrequency

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2025, 08:40:47 pm »
Hello pe1oxp,

[...]
Buying some good stuff to check the multimeter isn't cheap also. For a good 10V voltage reference and good 10k resistor I can sent the multimeter almost 2 times to a calibration house and also those own references have to be checked regularly too.

I have sent some emails to local and German houses, I hope they will deal with private persons.
It is clear that nothing compares to a real calibration, even as as private user.
Having some good home standards can be of course useful, but sending every few years at least one meter of the home/private lab to calibration provides another level of confidence.


As you are writing some emails, you may ask if a detailed cal report is provided, including the mesured values and uncertainities BEFORE and AFTER adjustement.
The picture  attached at the end of this post shows the BEFORE values.

Additional topics : guardbanding, IEC 17025 accredited cal lab

Keysight guardbanding explained

Calibration is a realm on it's own :scared:
NASA doc about TAR and TUR (dont miss the last sentence).


Update #1 : added some stuff
« Last Edit: January 26, 2025, 09:40:52 pm by timeandfrequency »
 

Offline Overspeed

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Re: Where calibrating NOS Agilent 34401A
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2025, 03:25:07 pm »
In my opinion, these devices do not need any calibration at all, I compared mine with an even newer KS 34401 and the deviations are very very small

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/brand-new-agilent-34401a-in-europe-(france)/msg5777837/#msg5777837

Hello
Before to spend $$$ in calibration and shipping cost ( which are not free at all ) that can be clever to run a DIY check with one voltage source and one precision resistor as a Vishay VPR and assess before calibration.

Regards
OS

Of course it is clever to check a multimeter before sending for calibration. In the 10V range it is OK, I checked with my other meters.
But in the past I had one meter which was out of specs in some resistor ranges after some years when sending in for calibration. So it is good to have some good history and getting a good feeling about it.

Buying some good stuff to check the multimeter isn't cheap also. For a good 10V voltage reference and good 10k resistor I can sent the multimeter almost 2 times to a calibration house and also those own references have to be checked regularly too.

I have sent some emails to local and German houses, I hope they will deal with private persons.

Hello
Calibration is not a proof of ''no drift'' with time , an instrument can fail with time .
That why there is periodic checks .

Regards
OS
 


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