$5 Raspberry Pi "Zero" !

[crispy_tofu]

Duplicate? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/$5-raspberry-pi-'zero'-!

[bitslice]

Has anyone in the UK seen this MagPi magazine stocked anywhere?
I don't fancy a wild goose chase trying to score a freebie Pi/0

[SteveLy]

Wow! Thanks for the heads up. 

[Rasz]

It almost looks like 2 layer pcb???
as always every vendor tries to scam (element14 almost $20 for bare Zero lol), adafruit even removed $5 entry from the shop entirely Need to wait couple of months for volume to catch up and scammers to settle down.

I wonder if Avago had anything to do with it. Maybe its Foundation trying to show Broadcom new bosses this thing can move volume? At this price they can easily sell couple of millions in few months (original Pee sold 1 mil in first year).

Imo its a great decision by Pee foundation, they were being pushed aside by chinese ARM boards and ESP. With this they get to claim hackers crown again.

[westfw]

22Mhz GPIO is a lot faster than an Arduino Uno can do.

That's more like "bursts of 22MHz signals."  FTA:

What is not evident from the snapshots, however, is that due to multitasking nature of Linux, the GPIO manipulation is constantly interrupted for short periods when the CPU is doing something else ... A good alternative is an independent add-on board with a microcontroller, such as Arduino

(Of course, the Arduino GPIO loops are subject to interruptions as well...)

I'll have to admit that I don't quite understand the purpose of driving the "core" price down so far below the price of the infrastructure you need to use it.
I mean, it's nice for the hackers that want to throw this thing into a kiosk, or use it as a video controller for <anything>, or who are otherwise well-equipped with leftover parts from their legacy of desktops.  But I don't see how it helps the supposed "target market" of people who thought that $35 was "too expensive."

I wonder how the BBC "Micro:Bit" people feel about this?   It's almost like there is a war going on:  "Kids should learn how to do real embedded programming."  "No, no one will need to do that.  They just need to learn linux!"

[Kjelt]

It's almost like there is a war going on:  "Kids should learn how to do real embedded programming."  "No, no one will need to do that.  They just need to learn linux!"

Funny that you mention this because it is exactly the discussion we now have in our company.
With embedded linux devices getting this dirt cheap and IoT devices needing more ROM/RAM (double each year at this moment in our product portfolio) I really see a shift towards cheap connected emb. linux devices.
If that is a good thing, I dunno, there will allways be ultra cheap stuff that needs M0 core cheapo hardware but lets face it , China and India can also do this for less money then the european countries. It is all in the intelligence, the first of a kind products and emb. linux is as easy and cheap as an embedded device at the moment.

[AlxDroidDev]

I was ready to order one from Adafruit, but they only have them on bundles, which are at least USD 29.99 for the Zero + lots of cables I already have. They have the bundles in stock, but no standalone Zeros. Fishy.

[ralphd]

I've seen many AVR projects that do not requre hard realtime and would be much easier with an embedded Linux box like a Pi.  For example I saw a sprinkler controller done with an AVR.  The time support in avr-libc is not in the release version, so time operations like DST are much harder than in unix.

I'm guessing many of the Zeros will be used for retropie boxes though...

[MT]

22Mhz GPIO is a lot faster than an Arduino Uno can do.

That's more like "bursts of 22MHz signals."  FTA:

What is not evident from the snapshots, however, is that due to multitasking nature of Linux, the GPIO manipulation is constantly interrupted for short periods when the CPU is doing something else ... A good alternative is an independent add-on board with a microcontroller, such as Arduino

(Of course, the Arduino GPIO loops are subject to interruptions as well...)

http://www.icrobotics.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Turning_the_Raspberry_Pi_Into_an_FM_Transmitter

So the only way to get no OS interruptions to hard real time user functions is to write kernel modules, patches to kernel
and/or use a RTAI?! Gee, now i have  to learn the inner workings of Linux and Linux itself, it never ends! 

[gojimmypi]

No Ethernet?
I don't like shuffling SD Cards to play with new packages.
How would you handle system updates?

check out the pictures on page 9 of the pdf version of Magpi Issue 40:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi-issues/MagPi40.pdf

There's a usb port for power, and another

Micro USB port for connecting to keyboards, mice, WiFi, USB sticks, and more

[gojimmypi]

What do you guys think about this cute little computer which only costs $5 US ... Mind blown.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/

I think it is an AWESOME way to get more young people learning about computers. I recall a conversation with a local high school teacher that expressed frustration in the cost of buying 30 Raspberry Pi's for her class.

FIVE BUCKS for a computer?? That's so cool.  "Free with purchase of magazine". How crazy is that?

WOOHOO for the Raspberry Pi team!

[AlxDroidDev]

How feasible would a function generator (up to 5Mhz) be with a Zero?

[FrankBuss]

I've seen many AVR projects that do not requre hard realtime and would be much easier with an embedded Linux box like a Pi.  For example I saw a sprinkler controller done with an AVR.  The time support in avr-libc is not in the release version, so time operations like DST are much harder than in unix.

Do you know what hard real-time means? It has nothing to do with time functions or DST handling. It means guaranteed maximum event response time. For example WindowsCE is a hard real-time system. As you can see in the report which is linked from this blog article, maximum interrupt latency is 19.9 us for the system they analyzed. This means it guarantees this reaction time for external events, if you use the highest interrupt priority and write your own driver for it. Might be sufficient for many applications. But the max interrupt latency of an AVR is much better than 1 us and you don't have uncertainties because of caches. Depending on your application it doesn't matter or it is essential.

The standard Linux kernel is not a hard real-time system. If a Linux driver interrupt interrupts your application or lower priority interrupt, it might block for milliseconds or longer and can ruin your day. But there is a real-time config setting for the Linux kernel. This allows you to write hard real-time applications. I don't know if it already works on the Raspberry Pi and how much the worst interrupt latency would be.

[andersm]

This allows you to write hard real-time applications. I don't know if it already works on the Raspberry Pi and how much the worst interrupt latency would be.

Some time ago I played around a bit with the kernel from Emlid. The benchmark latencies were excellent and stable compared to the stock kernel, but under load the network driver started bugging out. Driver stability is one of the big issues with preempt-rt kernels, you'll have to carefully tune and test the whole system and all devices you'll connect to it.

[ralphd]

I've seen many AVR projects that do not requre hard realtime and would be much easier with an embedded Linux box like a Pi.  For example I saw a sprinkler controller done with an AVR.  The time support in avr-libc is not in the release version, so time operations like DST are much harder than in unix.

Do you know what hard real-time means? It has nothing to do with time functions or DST handling. It means guaranteed maximum event response time. For example WindowsCE is a hard real-time system. As you can see in the report which is linked from this blog article, maximum interrupt latency is 19.9 us for the system they analyzed. This means it guarantees this reaction time for external events, if you use the highest interrupt priority and write your own driver for it. Might be sufficient for many applications. But the max interrupt latency of an AVR is much better than 1 us and you don't have uncertainties because of caches. Depending on your application it doesn't matter or it is essential.

The standard Linux kernel is not a hard real-time system. If a Linux driver interrupt interrupts your application or lower priority interrupt, it might block for milliseconds or longer and can ruin your day. But there is a real-time config setting for the Linux kernel. This allows you to write hard real-time applications. I don't know if it already works on the Raspberry Pi and how much the worst interrupt latency would be.

Since when does a sprinkler system need hard realtime?

[DimitriP]

What do you guys think about this cute little computer which only costs $5 US ... Mind blown.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/

I think it is an AWESOME way to get more young people learning about computers. I recall a conversation with a local high school teacher that expressed frustration in the cost of buying 30 Raspberry Pi's for her class.

FIVE BUCKS for a computer?? That's so cool.  "Free with purchase of magazine". How crazy is that?

WOOHOO for the Raspberry Pi team!

Teachers complaining about the cost of a Pi, are confused. How much does it cost per student taking woodshop ?

Most schools have  "labs" running MS office.
Because 4th graders using powerpoint" is a high tech skill. 

Boot them up from a memory stick with linux and have at it.
And if the district IT department has the USB ports disabled, thats a district problem not a Pi price problem.

Come to think of it, you can run Python on windows, you don't even need linux for that.
Yeah...there are problems and there are problems.
I wonder what mysteries of science can be taught using a Pi for each student that cannot be taught without. 

"Teachers".....

[ralphd]

How feasible would a function generator (up to 5Mhz) be with a Zero?

Quite easy, and well over 5Mhz.
https://github.com/F5OEO/rpitx

[Rasz]

22Mhz GPIO is a lot faster than an Arduino Uno can do.

That's more like "bursts of 22MHz signals."  FTA:

What is not evident from the snapshots, however, is that due to multitasking nature of Linux, the GPIO manipulation is constantly interrupted for short periods when the CPU is doing something else ... A good alternative is an independent add-on board with a microcontroller, such as Arduino

(Of course, the Arduino GPIO loops are subject to interruptions as well...)

http://www.icrobotics.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Turning_the_Raspberry_Pi_Into_an_FM_Transmitter

So the only way to get no OS interruptions to hard real time user functions is to write kernel modules, patches to kernel
and/or use a RTAI?! Gee, now i have  to learn the inner workings of Linux and Linux itself, it never ends! 

this doesnt bitbang gpio, it enables 100mhz PLL output on one pin and modulates its frequency = FM modulated radio transmitter

How feasible would a function generator (up to 5Mhz) be with a Zero?

should be doable with preempt kernel to avoid jitter
or you could reuse DPI video interface (parallel video), DPI simply dumps contents of the framebuffer into gpio pins, only problem might be blanking (unless you can set blanking/backporch to 0 on the pee)

The standard Linux kernel is not a hard real-time system. If a Linux driver interrupt interrupts your application or lower priority interrupt, it might block for milliseconds or longer and can ruin your day. But there is a real-time config setting for the Linux kernel. This allows you to write hard real-time applications. I don't know if it already works on the Raspberry Pi and how much the worst interrupt latency would be.

from hackaday:"With a PREEMPT_RT Linux kernel you can get (worst case) ~150 microsecond determinacy from user space C/C++ code on the RPi 1."

https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/497 has a scope screenshot, looks pretty good

I wonder what mysteries of science can be taught using a Pi for each student that cannot be taught without. 

curiosity, enthusiasm, passion
its one thing doing something on boring beige box school computer, its completely another to be given your own bare pcb "computer" loaded up with minecraft +python bindings and so much more.


I  hope zeo is a long term project, and not a ploy to get rid of old chips , or last scream before Avago kills whole thing.

[timb]

Right, you could give one to every child in the US, but they would still need the extra hardware to use it as a computer. I guess most children already have a smartphone now, which doesn't cost much if you buy it used. If you want to help with education, write good software for it.

Arduinos from China usually are shipped with no shipping cost. There are even products for $1.88, like this with free shipping.

And I think 0xdeadbeef is right, most Arduinos will end in the shelf, maybe after some playing with it. I have two Raspis here and I used it for helping developing the I2C driver in 2012 when it was new and this was missing (now part of the official Linux kernel), and for some weekend projects, like this programmer or to display something on e-paper. But most of the time it is indeed on the shelf, unpowered. Might do some interenet connected logging project someday with it, for which the new model would be best. You could use a cheap USB Wifi stick for network connection and it doesn't need a keyboard or display.

But until February this year 5 million Raspberry Pis were sold. If there are only 20% active users, this would be one million users and this is the reason why you find so much extra hardware for it, and forum posts etc.

USB keyboards cost a couple of bucks on Amazon, if they need one at all. A lot of people have an extra one sitting around from an old computer.

Pretty much everyone has a TV these days with HDMI, even poor people!

Pretty much everyone has a drawer full of old cell phone bricks/USB wall cubes, so power is taken care of. Or the USB port on a TV.

So, let's say $10 for a Pi, USB keyboard and HDMI cable. ($15 if you add an Ethernet dongle w/ built-in USB hub.)


Sent from my Tablet

[Ian.M]

Its great for embedding a PI in applications that need its compact size and don't need much I/O apart from its GPIO port, and is certainly more entry level hacker friendly than the compute module.

However, its nearly useless as a development system or general purpose computer without a powered hub as its only got a single low current USB port, like a model A, and cant be tethered to a PC as there are no USB device mode drivers.. Anyone serious will want keyboard, mouse, networking, and a card reader or other USB storage.   Lets assume a seven port hub with a good enough PSU so the PI can be powered from one of the downstream ports.  Then there's the adapter cables. The cost adds up quite quickly.

[DimitriP]

curiosity, enthusiasm, passion
its one thing doing something on boring beige box school computer, its completely another to be given your own bare pcb "computer" loaded up with minecraft +python bindings and so much more.

That's where we see it differently.
If you want to be looking at a bare board while having adventures with minecraft  and  python , take off the cover and turn the box sideways....

My point is they could still teach, it's just not as "sexy" when each student doesn't have "his/her own "computer", which in turn does nothing to elevate the school's or teacher's "status".
Which is after all why students exist in the first place.
They dont' just hand those blue ribbons to anyone who "just teaches"

[Aodhan145]

What do you guys think about this cute little computer which only costs $5 US ... Mind blown.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-zero/

I think it is an AWESOME way to get more young people learning about computers. I recall a conversation with a local high school teacher that expressed frustration in the cost of buying 30 Raspberry Pi's for her class.

FIVE BUCKS for a computer?? That's so cool.  "Free with purchase of magazine". How crazy is that?

WOOHOO for the Raspberry Pi team!

Teachers complaining about the cost of a Pi, are confused. How much does it cost per student taking woodshop ?

Most schools have  "labs" running MS office.
Because 4th graders using powerpoint" is a high tech skill. 

Boot them up from a memory stick with linux and have at it.
And if the district IT department has the USB ports disabled, thats a district problem not a Pi price problem.

Come to think of it, you can run Python on windows, you don't even need linux for that.
Yeah...there are problems and there are problems.
I wonder what mysteries of science can be taught using a Pi for each student that cannot be taught without. 

"Teachers".....

In schools here in Ireland they have the BIOS locked so people can't boot into other os's because everyone brings in linux sticks and erases the computers hard drives.

[Ian.M]

A bare board like the Zero is only really suitable for more advanced students.

Schools tend to like  solutions like FUZE

http://www.fuze.co.uk/  which occupies the educational niche that the BBC Micro machines and their Archimedes successors filled in the '80s and '90s.

It isn't the initial setup cost, its the ongoing maintenance cost of a rats next of cabling  and adaptors x25 - x30 in a typical classroom, in teaching and support staff time alone.   The Zero *WILL* have a large impact on student projects - develop on a full PI, port it to a Zero, and get to keep it, but IMHO as long as it cant be tethered for easy cross-development from an existing PC, it will remain a niche product compared to Arduinos and BBC micro:bits.

[SteveLy]

That FUZE looks so cool. But in this day and age BASIC should be banned.

[Ian.M]

It looks like its a structured Basic, so not too evil.   If you've coded in a couple of flavours of Basic then tackle ANSI C, you will have developed the skills to switch to most procedural, non-OOP languages without much effort.   Back in the '80s I used four different dialects of Basic, two of which were reasonably structured, and had K&R C compilers for my various home computers.  I also dabbled in COBOL, but that's another matter . . . .

Anyway, if you don't run  FUZE Basic, its still a reasonably normal Pi.