The ice40 design software is relabeled siliconblue stuff as I recall.Whenever I've looked at Altera, they've been lacking in anything competitive with Xilinx or Lattice at the lowest end, and this is compounded by not being able to use cheap SPI flash devices for configuration.
I use Altera parts because Quartus is IMO the best thing around and so long as you avoid the .0 versions it doesnt give me much grief.
Whenever I've looked at Altera, they've been lacking in anything competitive with Xilinx or Lattice at the lowest end, and this is compounded by not being able to use cheap SPI flash devices for configuration.
Just did a quick search on Digikey & didn't see anything new in either respect.
The smaller ones look very interesting - there are some under GBP1 at 100x. Unfortunately most of the small cheap ones are bga only, and some 0.4mm BGA to rub salt in the wound....
Whenever I've looked at Altera, they've been lacking in anything competitive with Xilinx or Lattice at the lowest end, and this is compounded by not being able to use cheap SPI flash devices for configuration.
Just did a quick search on Digikey & didn't see anything new in either respect.
Yes you have a good point there. Altera's cheapest fpgas are the Cyclone 2/3 series right now, EP2C5 runs about $12 in singles and $8 in volume. You can use certain commodity spi flash. EPCS4 = M25P40. Not M25VP40 (learned the hard way..)
I will probably grab a ice40 eval board, you got me interested now. :scared:
I will probably grab a ice40 eval board, you got me interested now. :scared:
this is compounded by not being able to use cheap SPI flash devices for configuration.
The ice40 design software is relabeled siliconblue stuff as I recall.As is the silicon, apparently...
Any chance to play with the tools yet? If so ... good? bad? okay-ish?Only compiled one of the 2 sample designs. Can't really tell much from that. Creating new projects seems a little non-obvious.
What's wrong with 144 pin TQFP? The ICE40HX4K comes with 2 PLLs in that package.For this project I only need about 30 I/Os, and don't want to take up more board space than necessary & want to keep to 2 layers. More expensive than a 100 pin Xilinx or other Lattice parts in 100 pin.
ICE40, though cheap seems a little too stripped down, so savings may be eaten by additional external parts. Could be useful step up from CPLDs. The OTP memory is a bummer. I think it has some good features for low power, but I've not had the need to look at that.
Hi all, Brutal thread resurrection BUMP sorry
So what is the verdict now? I found this thread because I was researching the HK4K 144pin, probably for the same reasons as you guys, I want a small scale FPGA which can haz PLL and fast clock delay line taps.
Best regards
They have a new low cost evaluation kit out BTW.
http://latticesemi.com/Home/Products/DevelopmentBoardsAndKits/iCEstick.aspx (http://latticesemi.com/Home/Products/DevelopmentBoardsAndKits/iCEstick.aspx)
So what is the verdict now? I found this thread because I was researching the HK4K 144pin, probably for the same reasons as you guys, I want a small scale FPGA which can haz PLL and fast clock delay line taps.
Anyways, icestick (ICE40HX1K, aka TQFP144 package with 1 PLL) ... only $25 at digikey/mouser. You know you want to!
I can thow it on the stack of $25 eval kits I already have that have never been used except being powered up one time.
On the way soon:
$20-$25 worth of passives, transistors, op-amps, logic chips from Tayda
I can thow it on the stack of $25 eval kits I already have that have never been used except being powered up one time.
I'm sure you're not the only one who has more fun projects than time. ;)QuoteOn the way soon:
$20-$25 worth of passives, transistors, op-amps, logic chips from Tayda
I only recently found out about Tayda, and their interesting pricing. Doh! Did you notice any particularly interesting tidbits while shopping?
They are apparently quite popular with DIY guitar effects pedal enthusiasts. While doing research on Tayda I found numerous guitar related sites referring people to them. That explains why they have all those foot sized cast aluminum enclosures and knobs that are replicas of ones made by Marshall and other guitar related companies. They also have many more foot activated switches than you would think a site would normally have.
I'm beginning to think that my local electronics store uses Tayda as a supplier because they seem to have the same knobs, trimmer pots, and more interesting things that seem too much a coincidence. Tayda sells ST branded 2N3055 transistors for $0.99 and they sell the same ones for $1.49. In fact there seems to be pretty much a 50 cent price differential on nearly every part that they seem to have in common.
Tayda is also the first site that I've seen that lets you buy items less than 1 cent each in quantities of 1.
15% Discount Coupon Code : 888444
Valid till 2 November 2013 ( 6pm New York time )
This was pretty much my experience a few weeks ago. I thought I'd try out an ICE40 and a MACHXO2 eval board.Can't comment on the ICE40 stuff but Diamond license generation is automatic - web request, emailed to you immediately.
Firstly they use two different, but similar looking, IDEs/toolchains for some weird reason.
Obtaining a license file seemed obvious, but wasn't, I read the docs which said I needed to send an email to request one, how quaint. A couple of days later I had a reply with a URL to do it through a web page.
I had to keep swapping license files around to switch betwen the two IDEs. i am sure you can avoid that if you invest time in hacking a combined license file or something, but it's just another reason to lose interest.
The documentation only seems to be aimed at getting you to a very limited point, but no more.
But the key point as you say appears to be that you can't actually program the device.
At the point where it seemed I was going to have shell out $150 for a programmer I lost interest.
Is the Diamond programmer the only way of programming these device, or can I use one of the half dozen or so JTAG devices I have accumulated?
This was pretty much my experience a few weeks ago. I thought I'd try out an ICE40 and a MACHXO2 eval board.
Firstly they use two different, but similar looking, IDEs/toolchains for some weird reason.
Obtaining a license file seemed obvious, but wasn't, I read the docs which said I needed to send an email to request one, how quaint. A couple of days later I had a reply with a URL to do it through a web page.
I had to keep swapping license files around to switch betwen the two IDEs. i am sure you can avoid that if you invest time in hacking a combined license file or something, but it's just another reason to lose interest.
The documentation only seems to be aimed at getting you to a very limited point, but no more.
But the key point as you say appears to be that you can't actually program the device.
At the point where it seemed I was going to have shell out $150 for a programmer I lost interest.
Is the Diamond programmer the only way of programming these device, or can I use one of the half dozen or so JTAG devices I have accumulated?
Ok, many thanks for the responses. I hadn't realised that ICE40 was a buy out.They all have onboard programmers
The boards I have are:
XO2-7000HE breakout board
LCMXO2-1200ZE-P1-EVN LCD I2C Pico board
ICE40HX1K-BLINK-EVN
Before I try again, do I need a separate programmer for these to be able to save my own stuff (non volatile) on them, and if so does it have to be the Lattice unit? I could get the demos to run but that was where it seemed to end.
Many thanks.
Lattice VM Drivers detected (HW-DLN-3C (Parallel), HW-USBN-2B (FTDI))
Starting: "prj_src add -exclude "C:/myprojects/lattice/xo2picodevelopmentkitsourcecode/Demo_MachXO2_Pico_Environment_Scanning/project/impl1/impl1.xcf""
INFO - Scanning USB2 Port FTUSB-0...
Programmer device database loaded
ERROR - Scan Failed - Creating Blank Programmer Project.
Starting: "pgr_project save "C:/myprojects/lattice/xo2picodevelopmentkitsourcecode/Demo_MachXO2_Pico_Environment_Scanning/project/impl1/impl1.xcf""
ERROR - Failed to Open FTDI USB port. Make sure to select the right cable type.
If you have not installed the FTDI Windows USB Driver, follow the instructions in the Programmer Help topic:
"Installing/Uninstalling Parallel Port Driver and USB Driver".
If you have installed the driver, if you recently plugged in the cable, please wait a few seconds and try again.
This will give the operating system time to recognize the cable.
Starting: "prj_src enable "C:/myprojects/lattice/xo2picodevelopmentkitsourcecode/Demo_MachXO2_Pico_Environment_Scanning/project/impl1/impl1.xcf""
Lattice Semiconductor Corporation.
Diamond Programmer Diamond (64-bit) 3.3.0.109 (Database V3.3.0)
System Information:
-----------------------------------------------------
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) 8
64-bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3820QM CPU @ 2.70GHz
Error communicating with FTUSB cable.
JTAG_InitDevice function: Invalid device handle.
Failed to Open FTDI USB port. Make sure to select the right cable type.
If you have not installed the FTDI Windows USB Driver, follow the instructions in the Programmer Help topic:
"Installing/Uninstalling Parallel Port Driver and USB Driver".
If you have installed the driver, if you recently plugged in the cable, please wait a few seconds and try again.
This will give the operating system time to recognize the cable.
Cable Auto Detection Activated.
Current LPT Port Mode: Config
(It's recommend that the LPT Port Mode be changed to "SPP" mode by using the Cable and I/O Port Setup->Auto Detect.)
No cable detected at 0x378
Current LPT Port Mode: Config
(It's recommend that the LPT Port Mode be changed to "SPP" mode by using the Cable and I/O Port Setup->Auto Detect.)
No cable detected at 0x278
Current LPT Port Mode: Config
(It's recommend that the LPT Port Mode be changed to "SPP" mode by using the Cable and I/O Port Setup->Auto Detect.)
No cable detected at 0x3bc
No Lattice HW-DLN-3C (parallel) cable detected.
No Lattice HW-USBN-2A cable detected.
Board with FTDI USB Host Chip detected.
Error communicating with FTUSB cable.
JTAG_InitDevice function: Invalid device handle.
Failed to Open FTDI USB port. Make sure to select the right cable type.
If you have not installed the FTDI Windows USB Driver, follow the instructions in the Programmer Help topic:
"Installing/Uninstalling Parallel Port Driver and USB Driver".
If you have installed the driver, if you recently plugged in the cable, please wait a few seconds and try again.
This will give the operating system time to recognize the cable.
I've not even looked at the ice toolchain, however IMO tutorials and documentation is where Lattice fails.
I've got a MachX02 board, and I've pretty much given up with it, as tutorials are minimal (I ended up finding some random one via googling that at least got me flashing a light), and documentation seems to be non-existent.
When I get time, I'm going to get either an Altera or Xilinx board, as tutorials for them seem alot more plentiful, then I might venture back to Lattice.