Arduino and PonySer programming help reloaded

[Vtile]

Hello. Does anyone have information to share using the simplistic PonySer style COM/serial device to erase and burn the hex files to Arduino Micro (Mega32U4). It have been over ten years when I last time burned or read anything to/from chip this way. The goal is to get rid of the Arduino bootloader and burn Forth environment on it toy around with it.

ICSP is the port in the board as far as I have understood where the connection should be done. Any pitfals on Mega32U4 I should be aware of? Ie. I suppose the ICSP connection is using TTL logic levels (as most schematics seems to use that as cut-out voltage and the chips running at 5V), but my google fu is weak on this.

[Data found to this, "unofficial arduino pinout and Mega datasheet".. detective work] Also the MISO and MOSI pins as they seems to be IO-pins (double function) which are their used state (input or output) in this kind of programming. I again suppose one is locked to as output (Tx) and one is input (Rx) which way?

I suppose the chip is driven to slave in this kind of operation so the function of MISO & MOSI should be then:
MOSI = Input for chip?
MISO = Output for chip?

If someone is wondering what kind of device PonySer is, it seems to be term used these days for these more or less passive DIY serial programmers. I suppose PonyProg software have popularised the term.

Need to recheck my ponyser implementation (diodes) to see if my MoBo or Arduino will be toast.

I found this on the Mega32U4 datasheet from page 367
Quote

    28.7    Serial Downloading
    Both the Flash and EEPROM memory
    arrays can be programmed using a se
    rial programming bus while RESET
    is pulled to GND. The serial programming interface cons
    ists of pins SCK, PDI (inp
    ut) and PDO (output). After
    RESET
     is set low, the Programming Enable instruction
    needs to be executed firs
    t before program/erase
    operations can be executed. NOTE, in
    Table 28-14 on page 368
    , the pin mapping for serial programming is listed.
    Not all packages use the SPI pins dedicated for
    the internal Serial Peripheral Interface - SPI.

But what is the "Programming Enable instruction" is it a data package or electrical pulse (or pulse pattern) and if pulse is it still on +5V scale or +12 like in parallel programming mode?

[Vtile]

Nah, I just assume the bit banging upper limit is 5 volts. 

[LA7SJA]

Try this device:
https://www.elfadistrelec.fi/sv/isp-programmerare-usb-kanda-navrusb/p/17321984?q=avr+isp&page=1&origPos=1&origPageSize=50&simi=89.48

Johan-Fredrik

[Vtile]

Try this device:
https://www.elfadistrelec.fi/sv/isp-programmerare-usb-kanda-navrusb/p/17321984?q=avr+isp&page=1&origPos=1&origPageSize=50&simi=89.48

Johan-Fredrik

With 160€ I'll pass that, my use for these devices are only once in a five years or so. Thanks for the help though. 

I highly doubt the current PC com port are true EIA/RS-232 (+-12 volts), but 0 to 5 volts or +-5 volts. (many ATX boards still have the COM-port pins, but no connector installed). Need to measure that beforehand ofcourse.

My current device is on attachment, which I cooked up with some old parts laying around, I noticed my old problem ... I do not have low voltage zeners stacked up anywhere. I need to solder version 2, this time with MosFET driven leds for read and write lines (To be sure the LOW/HIGH levels are met). Problem is that I haven't found electrical specifications for the serial programming of the 32U4 (propably bad searchwords), but now I know which line is input and which one is output so I can make my PC to be safe and only toast the Arduino. I first assumed TTL logic level 3.5 - 5 volts HIGH, but somewhere I did see 5V +- 10% in something related to Mega32U4.

[Ian.M]

Got a spare Arduino? If so simply use the ArduinoISP sketch.

[Vtile]

Got a spare Arduino? If so simply use the ArduinoISP sketch.

Unfortunately I don't. I only have this one piece, which I once bought, but then I lost the interest of the programming it etc.

The PonySer is AVRDude compatible (there is option for it on the settings as far as I have understood), but there is no single designs, but million slightly different ones floating around. Plus I do want one with leds to see if it is alive or not, which means I need to make one such design myself.