Author Topic: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?  (Read 27361 times)

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Online bingo600

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2020, 06:09:06 pm »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo
 
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Offline imo

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2020, 06:56:43 pm »
Is the silicon die inside the package original STM?
Where the die comes from?
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2020, 07:14:15 pm »
Send it to noopy  :)
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2020, 12:02:29 am »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo

Interesting, and the response said certain ADC functions were allegedly not working properly.

MYS = malaysia? Oddly the fake STM32 chips I received were PHL (phillipines).

Most of the genuine parts I have here are CHN, with some older KOR. Wonder if it means anything at all.
 

Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2020, 02:32:18 am »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo

Hey Bingo, if you're a member over there, any chance you could tell them about my free diagnostics binary that may help them determine if a STM32F1x is a fake ?

https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32f103c8-diags.html

Cheers:)
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Online bingo600

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2020, 07:10:02 am »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo

Hey Bingo, if you're a member over there, any chance you could tell them about my free diagnostics binary that may help them determine if a STM32F1x is a fake ?

https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32f103c8-diags.html

Cheers:)

Done

/Bingo
 
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Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2020, 09:38:26 am »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo

Hey Bingo, if you're a member over there, any chance you could tell them about my free diagnostics binary that may help them determine if a STM32F1x is a fake ?

https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/stm32f103c8-diags.html

Cheers:)

Done

/Bingo

Thanks Bingo!

I does appear that we can use my diagnostic program to tell if a chip marked as STM32F is a fake by reading the LOT NUMBERs.

I have a few reader submitted data that show the LOT Numbers of CS32F103C8T6 chips are in Hexadecimal, ie 0x004D3512 while genuine STM chips are in Decimal only.

I only have a report from one user with a GD32F103 and that chip USB failed to work with the error "Device descriptor request failed".

Does anyone else here have a GD32F103 Blue Pill or board that they could try my diagnostic program on and report the DEVICE ID data ?
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Offline imo

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2020, 10:59:36 pm »
They may take an stm32F103C6 or C4 (32k/16k), sand the markings off the package and print a "fake" marking with ie. the famous 991 KA on it.
Would be interesting to read the IDs of those chips.

 

Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2020, 11:31:03 pm »
They may take an stm32F103C6 or C4 (32k/16k), sand the markings off the package and print a "fake" marking with ie. the famous 991 KA on it.
Would be interesting to read the IDs of those chips.

Hmm, maybe I'll release a 31kB version of my  STM32F103 Diags bootable binary for users to read the Flash Size Register and ID codes on a 32Kb STM32F103C6.

The minimum image size of Mecrisp-Stellaris is about 18kB so I can't do a 16kB version.
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Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2020, 11:39:42 pm »
Send it to noopy  :)

or zeptobars https://zeptobars.com/en/ , or electronupdate https://www.youtube.com/user/electronupdate/videos?disable_polymer=1

Holy Moley!

I just spent hours viewing zeptobars, what an excellent decapping site, such clear die pictures, it's like chocolate to a tech such as I :)

What really shocked me was HOW MANY FAKES there are now !  There are fakes of just about every generic chip these days from 555's to op-amps etc.

Amazing.
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Offline Noopy

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Online Rasz

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2020, 04:22:29 pm »
https://smdprutser.nl/blog/category/stm-vs-gd32/ some investigation of GD differences
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2020, 12:15:28 am »
I does appear that we can use my diagnostic program to tell if a chip marked as STM32F is a fake by reading the LOT NUMBERs.

I have a few reader submitted data that show the LOT Numbers of CS32F103C8T6 chips are in Hexadecimal, ie 0x004D3512 while genuine STM chips are in Decimal only.

I only have a report from one user with a GD32F103 and that chip USB failed to work with the error "Device descriptor request failed".
Does anyone else here have a GD32F103 Blue Pill or board that they could try my diagnostic program on and report the DEVICE ID data ?

I am the user, since I can't get your binary to work with USB enumeration, read GD32 with jlink instead:

UID:
1FFFF7E8 = 2E CB 39 34 38 34 38 0F 33 37 39 38 FF FF FF FF
1FFFF7F8 = FF FF
contains hex similar to cs32 right?

xy = 876202798
wafer number = 56

Flash size register:
1FFFF7E0 = 40 00 = 0x0040 = 64kB

UID [31:0]: X/Y coordinates on Wafer (BCD coded)
UID [39:32]: Wafer number (8-bit unsigned number)
UID [95:40]: LOT number (ASCII encoded)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 12:17:27 am by thm_w »
 

Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2020, 01:03:37 pm »
I does appear that we can use my diagnostic program to tell if a chip marked as STM32F is a fake by reading the LOT NUMBERs.

I have a few reader submitted data that show the LOT Numbers of CS32F103C8T6 chips are in Hexadecimal, ie 0x004D3512 while genuine STM chips are in Decimal only.

I only have a report from one user with a GD32F103 and that chip USB failed to work with the error "Device descriptor request failed".
Does anyone else here have a GD32F103 Blue Pill or board that they could try my diagnostic program on and report the DEVICE ID data ?

I am the user, since I can't get your binary to work with USB enumeration, read GD32 with jlink instead:

UID:
1FFFF7E8 = 2E CB 39 34 38 34 38 0F 33 37 39 38 FF FF FF FF
1FFFF7F8 = FF FF
contains hex similar to cs32 right?

xy = 876202798
wafer number = 56

Flash size register:
1FFFF7E0 = 40 00 = 0x0040 = 64kB

UID [31:0]: X/Y coordinates on Wafer (BCD coded)
UID [39:32]: Wafer number (8-bit unsigned number)
UID [95:40]: LOT number (ASCII encoded)

Thanks for the followup!
I'm assuming that your register 0x1FFFF7E8 contents = 0x2ECB3934    (as the register is 32 bits)?
If you have a USB/3.3 volt dongle and don't mind connecting it to your BluePill unit, I can make you a bootable binary to use instead of the boards non working USB ?

I'm doing a improved V2 atm, any chance you could followup with the 32 bit Hex contents of these registers as you're the only one with a GD32F103 Blue Pill who has responded ?  :-+
Code: [Select]
0x1FFFF7E0  =
0x1FFFF7E8  =   
0x1FFFF7EC  =
0x1FFFF7F0  =

Here are the contents of one of my STM32F103C8 MCU's for comparison but as we know your numbers will be different.
Code: [Select]
id (STM32F103C8)
0x1FFFF7E0  = 0xFFFF0040
0x1FFFF7E8  = 0x066FFF53
0x1FFFF7EC  = ox55507150
0x1FFFF7F0  = 0x87042957
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Online bingo600

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2020, 09:03:50 pm »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo

Wuutt ...

Aliexpress rejected the Official STM document , about fake chips  :palm: :scared:

/Bingo
 

Offline imo

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #91 on: January 29, 2020, 09:05:07 pm »
Sure, Ali assumes the STM document might be a fake  :-DD
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #92 on: January 29, 2020, 10:30:24 pm »
Thanks for the followup!
I'm assuming that your register 0x1FFFF7E8 contents = 0x2ECB3934    (as the register is 32 bits)?
If you have a USB/3.3 volt dongle and don't mind connecting it to your BluePill unit, I can make you a bootable binary to use instead of the boards non working USB ?

I'm doing a improved V2 atm, any chance you could followup with the 32 bit Hex contents of these registers as you're the only one with a GD32F103 Blue Pill who has responded ?  :-+
Code: [Select]
0x1FFFF7E0  =
0x1FFFF7E8  =   
0x1FFFF7EC  =
0x1FFFF7F0  =

Here are the contents of one of my STM32F103C8 MCU's for comparison but as we know your numbers will be different.
Code: [Select]
id (STM32F103C8)
0x1FFFF7E0  = 0xFFFF0040
0x1FFFF7E8  = 0x066FFF53
0x1FFFF7EC  = ox55507150
0x1FFFF7F0  = 0x87042957

Its in reverse order right, LSB first? so the 32-bit value would be 0x3439CB2E.
I'm reading the memory locations which are printed in one byte at a time in ascending order.

Code: [Select]
0x1FFFF7E0  = 0x00140040
0x1FFFF7E8  = 0x3439CB2E
0x1FFFF7EC  = 0x0F383438
0x1FFFF7F0  = 0x38393733

Its not a bluepill but a chip on my PCB so don't worry about making another version, thanks.
 

Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #93 on: January 29, 2020, 10:54:26 pm »
On topic  ;)

User madias (over there), just got this "It's Fake" letter from STM
https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127

/Bingo

Wuutt ...

Aliexpress rejected the Official STM document , about fake chips  :palm: :scared:

/Bingo

They must still be in shock over at Alibaba at this unbelievable claim from Madias?

Hmm, that reminds me of a story my mother read to me as a small boy ... but what was the name of it ?

Ahh, I remember now, it was "Alibaba and the 40 honest people" !
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Offline imo

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2020, 12:14:38 am »
Now, how to order a not-faked BluePill for example??
Is there any recommendation on a specific seller (ebay, ali)?
Would a comment in the Order like "Genuine STM32F103C8 only" be enough?
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2020, 12:46:43 am »
What if the fab in China or Taiwan that makes the fakes makes the original STs too? Then maybe ST themselves are selling fakes too... ;D What a mess!
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Offline rhodges

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2020, 12:58:00 am »
Last August (2019) I ordered from seller "cctv008008" and the chips were marked as expected. I ordered from "everbuyingo" and got chips marked "CKS32F103". The CKS chip appears to have 64k of flash, as I wrote earlier.

I do not remember if the one I tested at 128k flash was from "cctv008008" or an earlier purchase. I will do a test on one from that seller.

I should probably start marking my boards when I get them, or keep them in marked containers.

I had a similar story with the W1209 boards. The good ones have an STM8S003, and I have a lot of libraries for that chip. But some of them have a Nuvotron 8051 family chip, and I can't do anything useful (*) with those. I could have complained "not as described", because the picture shows an STM8S003. But the text does not say what CPU it has.

I think that in the big picture, the seller has no idea exactly what the warehouse will send, and adding a comment won't help.

(*) Well, I can always use them as thermostats.
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Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2020, 01:36:04 am »
What if the fab in China or Taiwan that makes the fakes makes the original STs too? Then maybe ST themselves are selling fakes too... ;D What a mess!

Don't buy from Taiwan or China perhaps ?

I'm still using my hoard of 480 STM32F051's (64kB flash. 8kB ram, QFN32) I bought from Avenet (Dallas) in 2014 for $0.56 USD each. They're sealed in chip carriers in silver packs with nitrogen gas and special moisture monitors, plus each pack includes a traceable printout for the product, utterly professional.

This is a far cry from the usual Chinese chip purchase which usually come in a envelope.

The shipping was $65 at the time which was a lot back then but I amortized it over all the chips in that shipment. The other amazing thing is that the order was 3 days from payment to my door! I can't even get stuff in that time using the Australian Postal service from Melbourne, which is only 1000km away from me.

I've also bought from Arrow.com which have really low prices from time to time on old/excess stock etc. They are FAST delivery with similar packaging to Avenet.

No way either of those two business above supply fake chips.
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Offline techman-001

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2020, 04:26:21 am »
Thanks for the followup!
I'm assuming that your register 0x1FFFF7E8 contents = 0x2ECB3934    (as the register is 32 bits)?
If you have a USB/3.3 volt dongle and don't mind connecting it to your BluePill unit, I can make you a bootable binary to use instead of the boards non working USB ?

I'm doing a improved V2 atm, any chance you could followup with the 32 bit Hex contents of these registers as you're the only one with a GD32F103 Blue Pill who has responded ?  :-+
Code: [Select]
0x1FFFF7E0  =
0x1FFFF7E8  =   
0x1FFFF7EC  =
0x1FFFF7F0  =

Here are the contents of one of my STM32F103C8 MCU's for comparison but as we know your numbers will be different.
Code: [Select]
id (STM32F103C8)
0x1FFFF7E0  = 0xFFFF0040
0x1FFFF7E8  = 0x066FFF53
0x1FFFF7EC  = ox55507150
0x1FFFF7F0  = 0x87042957

Its in reverse order right, LSB first? so the 32-bit value would be 0x3439CB2E.
I'm reading the memory locations which are printed in one byte at a time in ascending order.

Code: [Select]
0x1FFFF7E0  = 0x00140040
0x1FFFF7E8  = 0x3439CB2E
0x1FFFF7EC  = 0x0F383438
0x1FFFF7F0  = 0x38393733

Its not a bluepill but a chip on my PCB so don't worry about making another version, thanks.

Many Thanks again  :-+
Yes Little Endian by default.
Of course, it's your own board with a GD32F103!  error = "Device descriptor request failed"

Here is my new layout and data for comparison.

Code: [Select]
\ test-STM32F103C8-live
\ Flash Bytes: 65536
\ [31:00] $066FFF53 | . o . S | <--Hex char detected
\ [63:32] $55507150 | U P q P |
\ [95:64] $87042957 | . . ) W |

\ test-GD32VF103-live  (RISC-V)
\ Flash Bytes: 131072
\ [31:00] $3641294D | 6 A ) M | <--Hex char detected
\ [63:32] $00123736 | . . 7 6 |
\ [95:64] $FFFFFFFF | . . . . | <--Hex char detected

\ test-GD32F103-supplied-data
\ Flash Bytes: 65536
\ [31:00] $3439CB2E | 4 9 . . | <--Hex char detected
\ [63:32] $0F383438 | . 8 4 8 | <--Hex char detected
\ [95:64] $38393733 | 8 9 7 3 |
\
\ GD32F103-supplied-data
\ $1FFFF7E0  = $00140040
\ $1FFFF7E8  = $3439CB2E
\ $1FFFF7EC  = $0F383438
\ $1FFFF7F0  = $38393733
stm32fxx-diagnostics-v1.5.bin  https://sourceforge.net/projects/mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc/files/stm32fxx-diagnostics-v1.5.bin
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Offline OwO

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Re: Cheap Bluepill, very likely it has fake STM32 right ?
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2020, 04:56:45 am »
If you want a "genuine" chip with 128/256KB of flash, search GD32F103C8T6 on aliexpress. I have not seen a fake GD32 yet  ;)
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