Chinese Knockoffs FM8PE53 replace PIC12C508

[Mr J]

FM8PE53 OTP MCU can replace PIC12C508, PIC12C509

I was wondering if anyone have used these knock offs, unfortunately my school is going though a budget crisis and I'm trying to cheapen parts for students to build projects.

[Psi]

I'd hardly call a PIC12C508 an expensive chip to start with.  It's $1.50 @ x25 from digikey.

The students probably spend much more on food every day, and a PIC lasts quite a bit longer

You could probably build the micros into a small box with some added polarity/voltage protection if students destroying them is an issue.
And it makes it easier for them to connect things up if there's terminals rather than pins.

[NiHaoMike]

Offer them extra credit if they use parts they ordered, including samples.

[Rufus]

FM8PE53 OTP MCU can replace PIC12C508, PIC12C509

I was wondering if anyone have used these knock offs, unfortunately my school is going though a budget crisis and I'm trying to cheapen parts for students to build projects.

The PIC12C50x is expensive because it is mature (obsolete). The FLASH PIC12F50x is half the price and assuming your students don't get to keep their projects you can re-use the ones they managed not to blow up. 

[Mr J]

yea but even the cheap parts get expensive in large QTY we typically have to order for 150 students. We typically do about 50 projects each student per year , yes the student keep there projects when completed for free (can't charge them, parents have a bird every year for a required TI-30 calculator, some years if we have enough $$ we spring for them).

I don't believe in recycling one project over and over, when I was a student we did that and once I had it up and running I had to take it apart for the next student, it sucked i couldn't bring it home and show it off and I nothing for examples in a portfolio, all that work with nothing to show. 

So about 7500 projects/units (all one offs) total of various parts (not just the 508's). If I can save a few cents on each part it adds up and I can stretch the tax payer dollar as much as I can. My teaching partner jokes that where like a mini china, lol.

Good idea on the extra credit on the free samples NiHaoMike, i will have to think about that. we do get samples for new "in the works" projects and get some donations, we just got 10,000 LM324's so we have about 10 projects in the works with those for next year.

For those curious on the projects here is a list of some of the popular ones. Not included on this list are arduino base projects, robotics and laboratories.

Breadboard Power Supply Project
Simple PS 9V 
Simple siren
Noisy Cricket
Jingle Bells / Teletubby
Continuity Checker
IPOD Amp w/ Power Supply
Ringing Phone Light Flasher
Temperature Probe
Hyper Peppy
Talking Clock
Drawdio
10 Note Piano Circuit
CAT 5 Cable Tester
VU Meter
AC Line Tester
Marquee
PC Serial O-scope (TLC549)
Key Logger
Function Generator (XR2206)
High Power Audio Amp
Strobe
Color Organ
Car Battery Volt Meter
PIC Simon
Fox and Hound (surface mount)
Triple P.S.
IPOD Charger (boots converter 3V to 5V)
Inductance Meter Adapter
IPOD Amp (surface mount)
Ultrasonic Backup Alarm
FM radio (SC1088)
Logic Probe SMT
FM Mic (SMT)
Electronic Candle
Clap on Clap off
PIC Frequency Counter
Binary Clock
LCD Clock AT89C295
Digital Recorder
Electronic Lock
PIC PONG / Tetris
Digital Dice (Student Design)
TTL Chip Clock
Fastest Finger First Indicator
Aviation Band Receiver
2 Meter Receiver

[joelby]

Sounds like you've got a good course

Are there any cheaper alternatives? I just had a look at Digikey's catalogue - search for pic16f, for example, and sort by price. The cheapest DIP in a quantity of 300 is the PIC16F54-I/P, at 52c. It might also be worth checking Microchip Direct, who provide a 25% academic discount, as well as volume discounts for lab orders: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1444

[westfw]

More than one project per week per student?  Wow!

[hacklordsniper]

More than one project per week per student?  Wow!

Amazing, i had 1 project in 4 years!

[alm]

Did you try to talk to Microchip? Since you order a fairly large number of devices and are an education customer, you may be able to work something out. It's gotta be worth something for them that you teach the students PICs, and not any of the competing micros.

I think using clones that will probably have lots of undocumented bugs for teaching is a bad idea. I'd rather switch to a cheaper PIC or even 8051 than a cloned PIC. At least one uC manufacturer has got to be interested in selling you cheap micros.

[amyk]

If you want the cheapest, '51 is probably going to be the way to go.

How about the STC10F/15F series? $0.25 in 1ku.
http://www.stc-51.com/stc15f100.php

[sonicj]

bake sale!

[Mr J]

thaks for the info guys, I didn't know about the educational discount route. I'll have to talk with microchip, atmel and TI and see what they can do. Love the bake sale idea lol "Chip for Chips' chocolate chip cookie sale. All of the donations are from companies switching over the ROHS and we get the NOS lead stuff, perfect for us. And I've been getting some things from china direct LCD's, connectors, etc.

Yea we do a lot of projects, I have a student for about 360 hours / year actual seat time (lab and theory) for four years. Not including summer session or dual enrollment. And where located about 30 miles south of Boston that has a huge electronics market. If anyone is interested here is the link to our minimum standards for electronics http://www.doe.mass.edu/cte/frameworks/electronics.pdf , we cover way more that whats in the standard but it gives a general idea what we cover.

Unfortunately some of the other schools in the area have shut down there electronics programs, about six of them  in a 50 miles radius over the past few years, there are many reasons behind this. But for us I want to stretch our budget as much as we can, I don't think where going to get out of this economy slump soon.

[ciccio]

I cannot be of any help, apart suggesting to contact Microchip or Atmel and explaining the situation (I believe they are surely interested in maybe 10 future customers), but I want to congratulate for the effort you are doing.
Your students actually build something, and do not use only SPICE .
About recycling, I do not see it so badly.
When I was in technical high school (circa 1967) we recycled even the passive components.
I was taught how to solder by replacing the terminals of a 1W resistor with new, longer copper wires.
I desoldered about 5 times an UA747 opamp to use it in new projects (it was really expensive then).
Best regards

[westfw]

What's the web site for the actual school?

[slashguitar]

Congrats for the work you are doing!!
It would be awesome if there were more dedicated teachers like you.
I think reusing is the way to go, especially if students are building so many projects. It's pointless to keep boards on your shelf if you are never going to use them again.

[Mr J]

PM sent with web site (westfw)

[siliconmix]

what about some write once chips as well.then if their projects are working ok.pop a write once chip in there .boom.recycle the reprogrammable ones