Ebay, STM32 dev boards. What's on the CD's? Where to find more info?

[wilfred]

/.

[nuhamind2]

Hey, I have one with onboard USB-TTL. The CD content as far as I can remember : Keil IDE, Jlink software , example (in keil format),user manual in chinese, STM32 loader demo (tool to download via UART).
The STM32 already burned ucos demo.

The first link (blue pcb) apparently has 2 version. One with female header on the 2 side instead of male. The other one is in your link. The female header version use a jumper to enter bootloader mode but it is faulty. I have both version. You can also buy bundled with matching 2.4 "LCD.

edit : Tell me if you need more info about that board

[paulie]

I'm more experienced with the stripped down version of those boards that also has a USB connector wired direct (no FTDI). There are rumors it can allow the board to function like STlink debugger but that firmware is not open source and nobody has ever demonstrated this. If there is any hint on how to make use of the direct USB connector it would be very interesting.

[nuhamind2]

I'm more experienced with the stripped down version of those boards that also has a USB connector wired direct (no FTDI). There are rumors it can allow the board to function like STlink debugger but that firmware is not open source and nobody has ever demonstrated this. If there is any hint on how to make use of the direct USB connector it would be very interesting.

the firmware is not opensource, but some has already able to extract it from STLink update process. If not ,there won't be cheap stlink dongle on ebay and aliexpress.

[paulie]

One fellow has a blog claiming to have decoded the encripted ST upgrade file but he never proved this and nobody else has been able to verify. The rumors are that one Russian fellow paid to have the top removed and protection bypassed and is selling chips to the Chinese. Another story has an Israeli doing this. Nothing on bit torrents and no Chinese code package for sale which are the usual channels for pirate software so this is strange. I would like to see any info on using that interface.

[nuhamind2]

try google : diy stlink

[paulie]

The first links where the fellow claimed to decrypt the upgrade file but never demonstrated as I mentioned before. In others chips are unsoldered from a real STlink and used to make the DIY. The Russian had a bin but it didn't work for me or any of the others that tried. The circuit is well known and published in ST docs but If you know of any image that is proven then it would be greatly appreciated if you could attach it here.

[leppie]

Why pay $17 when you can get an official Nucleo board for just over $10? 

[tom66]

You can buy an STM32F4 dev board from Farnell for £10 which has an onboard ST link debugger... it's on a header, you can swap from on board MCU to off board MCU.

[paulie]

IMO those $6 Aliexpress/Ebay minimum development boards are a better value but keep in mind those CDs cost 10 cents and the cable is worth at least a half dollar. And as we all know you can build one yourself for less than $2.

If there was some hint for using the directly wired USB interface hidden away somewhere on that CD it would be a good deal though.

[paulie]

The STlink dongles are available for as little as $4 on Aliexpress and are much more useable than those break-in-half deals. So with the minmum dev boards and considering shipping end up costing about 1/3 as much as Discovery or Nucleo. Of course you can look at it as theres only $12 difference and shipping time may be a factor for those who want it NOW.

[westfw]

But you're talking about the $7 STM32f103c8 boards (or cheaper homebrews) + an STLink, while the OP was talking a $17 STM32f103rb board with built-in FTDI serial adapter.  I can't see a reason to prefer the eBay RB board over an official ST demo board...

The only reason I see not to purchase ALL the <$20 demo boards out there (TI, freescale, ST, NXP, etc) is that eventually you wind up with so many that it makes you a bit scatter-brained :-)  Things are SO much better than when the official development boards for a CPU cost $400...  (Hmm.  The oldest development board I bought for myself was a Motorola 68HC05 board that had a special promotion for "only" $68.05...  (something like 4k of EPROM (uv-eraseable!) and 256 bytes of RAM...))

[dannyf]

Why pay $17 when you can get an official Nucleo board for just over $10?

When you can pay more and get less, why pay less and get more?

Yeah, those Nucleo boards are nice, particularly those F3/F4 boards - at the same price as the F0/F1 boards! Unbelievable.

[dannyf]

the firmware is not opensource,

I actually think that firmware came from Segger - it is a crippled version of their jlink software tailored to stm chips (on swd).

One downside I see with the stlink clones is that they don't have swo. But that would not be a problem if someone could implement rtt/jscope over the clones,

[Brutte]

I suppose you mean this one?

Mind this is RB version (128kB flash + 20kB of SRAM).
I would recommend something RE, particularly L152RE, when compared to 103RB:

• MPU
• about half the max speed (32MHz)
• four times more energy efficient
• four times more flash
• four times more SRAM
• 16kB eeprom
• more timers (but no complementary IOs)
• op-amps + comparators
• touch sensing
• LCD driver
• and other goodies..

You can also try the Nucleo-F4xx, those are faster and come with DSP+FPU extensions.

[paulie]

I'm a beginner. I don't know what "much more useable" means. Do you mean just ergonomically? Or more widely supported on different platforms like Linux with more IDE toolchains.

Aside from being smaller and being able to plug directly into a PC without need for a cable the metal casing is a big advantage. I've had two of the break-in-half board type programmer/debuggers fail. The first from an STM8 board shorted out on my benchtop with blue sparks and smoke because the circuits are exposed and the delicate little micro USB on the other failed. So I've become very fond of the "cheap" Chinese clone. More compatible too because one of the above only did SWIM but the clone does SWIM and SDIO, STM32 and STM8.

Don't get me wrong, the Nucleo and Discovery mfg dev boards are an excellent way to jump into this and for less than $20 quite a bargain. Both approaches have been tried but for me the cheaper and more generic and modular approach of the clones worked out better.

As far as choice of chip as mentioned in the one dollar thread 103c has proven to be the most popular ARM worldwide. I also recently started with STM8 because it came up a close second in popularity when browsing sites like Taobao, Aliexpress, and Ebay. None of the other ARMs were even in the running in that respect. The STM8 is a crippled P.O.S. but it's the lowest cost P.O.S. yet still quite comparable to PIC and AVR at a fraction the price (21 cents shipped, hobby qty). There are some drawbacks however so maybe not best intro chip. Everybody will push their own favorite and 103c is mine based on popularity, support, and cost/feature/performance ratios.

[mrflibble]

But you're talking about the $7 STM32f103c8 boards (or cheaper homebrews) + an STLink, while the OP was talking a $17 STM32f103rb board with built-in FTDI serial adapter.  I can't see a reason to prefer the eBay RB board over an official ST demo board...

Agreed. And especially since wilfred says he's a beginner with STM32. In the past I'd have said "get a disco board" and these days it's "get a nucleo board". Those ST dev boards are so damn cheap it's not really all that interesting to get something from ebay. The price on those nucleo-f4x1 boards is hard to beat.

That said, the stm32f1xx cheapos on ebay are interesting as well. But if you are just starting I'd think of those as a supplement, not the main attraction. Start out development on a nucleo-f401/411 (only € 8.57), so you have a nice bit of headroom to play. And possibly use the ebay cheapo's for your smaller projects where you don't need a fullblown f4, something like that.

[nuhamind2]

The problem with those STM32 discovery and nucleo is that the shipping gonna be expensive in not so major country.
That's why i love those cheap chinese board

[paulie]

Actually shipping can be a big deal even in countries that ARE major. S&H was actually more than product cost for all of my official dev boards. On these forums most will inflate or deflate the real cost to make their argument look better (I call them "danny-bucks" ). I try to include the extra charges or refer to "shipped" in my comments. And back it up with links if possible.

But you're talking about the $7 STM32f103c8 boards (or cheaper homebrews) + an STLink, while the OP was talking a $17 STM32f103rb board with built-in FTDI serial adapter.  I can't see a reason to prefer the eBay RB board over an official ST demo board...

I can't see a reason to prefer either over the minimum Ebay boards. The real cost in that OP link was $18 and change. The STlink clone is $4 and the blue boards $6 (even less on sale) on Aliexpress so you can just about buy another extra set for backup for same cost.  I consider backup very important, specially when starting out. Aside from the advantages described in my previous post just recalled another plus for the clones: that ANNOYING virtual disk popup that comes up every time that Discovery is plugged in. Wouldn't be so bad except every one of those links is dead as a doornail.

So the clones are not just cheaper, they are BETTER.

ps. Unfortunately in my culture frugality is looked on as a character flaw and extravagance and pointless expense are considered virtues. "Oh yeah? Well I paid TWICE as much!" LOL

[paulie]

BTW On the subject of cheap STM32F103 "unofficial" development boards here's a deal that costs not much more than a Discovery (counting shipping) or Ebay RB board yet includes TFT display, SD card slot, USB ports, and mucho other goodies:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221386399908?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looks like it's running windows and the touch keys even respond but not really and just a demo. I bought one a couple years ago but never got into it because of the incredibly painful ARM development process. It was just pulled off the shelf earlier this week in hopes that some burrs have been ground off the edges of the tools and that my human centipede crawling skills have improved a bit.

[mrflibble]

Actually shipping can be a big deal even in countries that ARE major. S&H was actually more than product cost for all of my official dev boards. On these forums most will inflate or deflate the real cost to make their argument look better (I call them "danny-bucks" ). I try to include the extra charges or refer to "shipped" in my comments. And back it up with links if possible.

Just be clear where you buy it and let the reader calculate for themselves what is "cheaper". Because your metric for cheaper and better might be different from someone else's. But yes, getting just 1 board at Mouser or Digikey is going to be silly expensive. Which is why for me that sort of dev-board always rides along with an order for other stuff. Where the total order obviously always happens to qualify for free shipping.

So the clones are not just cheaper, they are BETTER.

Case in point. While for you the clone is better because you allow popups (how quaint), for me the usb mass storage "feature" has very low weight in the better/worse decision.

http://fabooh.com/2014/03/16/how-to-deal-with-a-problematic-stm32-st-linkv1-device-and-ubuntu/

Annoying problem solved. Not that I would get a popup even for a valid removable disk, but that's besides the point. I don't want enumeration of disks that are not a disk.

ps. Unfortunately in my culture frugality is looked on as a character flaw and extravagance and pointless expense are considered virtues. "Oh yeah? Well I paid TWICE as much!" LOL

A lot of Apple hardware owners where you live? 

Anyways, the ST-link clones are definitely interesting. Have 2 in the ebay shopping cart right now. I was also looking at getting some cheap STM32F103 boards to take care of the lower end.

Cheapest I could find so far was this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-CortexM3-STM32F103C8T6-STM32-Core-System-Development-JTAG-AMS1117-33-Board-/301283707327

The idea was to get 2 or 3 of those for breadboarding and general mucking about, and then 10 or 20 cheapo ic's for projects. But I was unable to find anything really cheap. Certainly not as lowly priced as I recall being mentioned in another thread. On ebay $21.50 for 10 STM32F103C8T6. And I recall from the other thread it being under $1, so I suspect I am missing something here.
 
MMmh, GD32F103C8T6 is going for $15 for 10 on aliexpress. Nothing in GD32 flavor to be found on ebay, so I guess aliexpress it is... What was the cheapest you could find the F103's for?

Edit: Mmmh, I think I'm mixing things up. The < $1 one was probably the stm32f030. Those seem to go for about $7 for 10 on ebay.

[paulie]

Maybe the $21 you mention is for the 100pcs STM8 I recently purchased on Aliexpress not 10pcs STM32. Dannyf and I were lucky to get STM8 at 5 for $1.76 on Ebay but as soon as this forum came to his attention the price doubled. In any case Ebay is not the place to get ST chips at this time. Here's the snapshot from the other thread for STM32 at $1.40 ea 10pcs:



I've managed as low a $.80 ea (100pcs shipped) for refurbs but those type deals are very seasonal and you probably have to check in every day and be quick on the trigger. Also watch out for sales which can knock as much as 30% off. What makes things tougher is the totally flaky Aliexpress search engine which may or may not be in the mood to actually sort by price. No matter what you can always count on buying 10 for around $15 from any of several different sellers there.

[mrflibble]

Maybe the $21 you mention is for the 100pcs STM8 I recently purchased on Aliexpress not 10pcs STM32. Dannyf and I were lucky to get STM32 at 5 for $1.76 on Ebay but as soon as this forum came to his attention the price doubled. In any case Ebay is not the place to get ST chips at this time. Here's the snapshot from the other thread for $1.40 ea 10pcs:

Do you have a link to the item that is now double in price? That sort of behaviour is rather predictable, as is the inevitable drop in price. The amusing pricing on RTL based tuners for example. Just wait a bit, then order and tadaaa low price level. If only because they cannot afford to be undercut by their competitors and lose sales.

Besides what stm32 specifically? I can get a stm32 NOW for that price level, just not an stm32f1. ;-) You mean 5pcs stm32f103 for $1.76? If so, nice price. Good to know as a reference of what is possible in terms of pricing.

Yeah, the ~ $15 @10 on aliexpress price level I already found. I was just looking for the < $10 @ 10 because surely I am blind. XD

Heh, random chinese refurb is one bridge too far for me.

[paulie]

Do you have a link to the item that is now double in price?

Edit: Calling them STM32 was a typo, I meant STM8. Post corrected. STM32 were not featured in the ghetto thread. At least not until much later after being highlighted in the dollar thread. Still 35 cents was a great price on Ebay for such a small quantity. I can post a snapshot of the original listing if interested but here's the current one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171393117758?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

FYI All mention of STM32 here refers to STM32F103C8T6. As far as I'm concerned there is no other member of that family that competes in availability/feature/performance/cost. STM8=STM8S003F3P6 in 8bit ARM category for same reasons.

MMmh, GD32F103C8T6 is going for $15 for 10 on aliexpress. Nothing in GD32 flavor to be found on ebay, so I guess aliexpress it is... What was the cheapest you could find the F103's for?

GD is my bridge too far. I don't know how accurate statements in that area were. Don't forget he calls F103 rebranded F003 too. You may recall internet (freaks) rumors about LGT8F88A being AVR clones when really they were not compatible at all. Or the EM78xxx/PIC fiasco.

Be careful with ghetto pricing too. His 16 cent "official" cost was not for any quantity readers of this forum would be interested in. That's what I meant by "danny-bucks". LOL. Dannyf is very smart and experienced, compared to me anyway, and  I enjoy his threads but it can be a little hard picking the pearls out of the pile. I suppose we are all guilty of a little hyperbole on occasion. I've literally said it a MILLION times, don't exaggerate!

[mrflibble]

Do you have a link to the item that is now double in price?

Edit: Calling them STM32 was a typo, I meant STM8. Post corrected. STM32 were not featured in the ghetto thread. At least not until after being highlighted in the dollar thread. Still 35 cents was a great price on Ebay for such a small quantity. I can post a snapshot of the original listing if interested but here's the current one:

Well, darnit. I was hoping for low low prices on those stm32 being possible, because that would just mean waiting for a bit for prices to come down. The stm8s ... you almost break your leg stumbling over those while looking for stm32's on ebay. Here, have an stm8. No? Here, have 10. Pleeeeease! Still, $1.79 @ 10 for those bare bones boards is nice. Too bad there's no gcc for it.

As for GD32, I'm not buying those either. But I was willing to entertain the idea if the price was right. Turns out the price isn't right.

Edit: By which I mean, I couldn't find any real price advantage for GD32 over the STM32.