Author Topic: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs  (Read 28557 times)

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Offline andyturk

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 06:33:29 pm »
Quote
A "proper" IDE would actually let you write C++ code. :-(

A "proper" IDE would actually let you get your job done. Period.

In this particular case, it actually allows you to write whatever code you wish to write, as long as you are able to set up your tool chain.

So if you cannot write C++ code on it, you have to blame yourself for that.
What are you talking about? Have you ever tried to use Cypress' tools?

PSoC Creator does *not* support C++. I've gone several rounds with their tech support people on the issue. It's not a problem with the toolchain itself, which is based on GCC. It's a deficiency in their IDE which wants to be very aware of what's going on in the source. It simply fails to deal with C++. Going around PSoC Creator is difficult because the IDE generates low-level C code that wires up all your analog and digital blocks.

I was hoping to port a project from STM32 to PSoC5LP. It would have been perfect for Cypress' chip, but all my existing code was in C++. It was a choice of going with PSoC and re-writing a lot of code, or using a more conventional mcu with some external analog parts. The keeping the existing code was worth more than removing some op amps from the BOM.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2014, 10:43:36 pm »
Recently I've been heavily going back to PICs (8,16 and 32 bit) after a few detours into NXP ARMs in recent years.
The main reasons being, in no particular order :
* same programmer for all devices, and Pickit 3's standalone programmer-to-go mode is absolutely ideal for production programming, either on a jig or handheld - I can just give it to a subcontractor and tell them to connect it, press a button and check the light goes green.
* Same IDE for all devices, and very similar compilers
* Similar peripherals from 8 to 32 bit devices
* I can order preprogrammed parts from Microchipdirect for a few pennies and a couple of days extra.
* wide range pf packages from DIP to QFN
* Pin mapping, especially on PIC24 - pity this is a lot more limited on the PIC32MX
* Internal oscillators that are accurate enough to do UARTs - it has taken some manufacturers a while to catch up with this.
* always available.

 
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2014, 11:08:14 pm »
http://www.cypress.com/?rid=92146

MCU is available for some time and i already used about a dozen of them, but this prototyping kit is great when i want something simple like arduino, but with "proper" IDE and chip :)

Wow, what a price point!  I ordered a handful of them - THANK YOU!

For anyone doing any serious development, you can also get touch with a Cypress FAE and they can get you samples of pretty much any of the chips you want - they are awesome.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2014, 12:20:38 am »
Oh well, they charge 15$ shipping.  Shame, I would have ordered 2 boards.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2014, 03:05:50 am »
Oh well, they charge 15$ shipping.  Shame, I would have ordered 2 boards.

They charge $7.50 here in the US an extra $7.50 to Europe is not that bad I think.

You can always buy the chips (PSoC 4200) at $1 free shipping worldwide with no minimum, your choice of 40-QFN 28-SSOP or 44-QFP

http://www.cypress.com/?id=2218

but then you have to program them, although it's well documented how to, it won't be as easy as with the $4 board.

http://www.cypress.com/?docID=48133

Mouser mentions shipping by 4/21 but their shipping to Europe might be about the same not sure, it's about $6 in the us.

 

Offline Laurynas

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2014, 09:00:42 am »
shipping will be less of an issue when farnell and others gets them in stock.

As for programming chips in your devices the cheapest way i found so far is desoldering 3 resistors from a Pioneer kit and using either a fancy 10 pin cable or soldering 3 wires where those resistors were (my choice).
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2014, 03:48:30 pm »
The UDBs in those  chips are very interesting: kind of fpga-on-a-chip. Not sure how capable they are. Making a CRC or encryption engine out of them would be interesting.

Otherwise, the rest of the peripherals not as impressive. I do think their focus on rich (and interesting / unique) peripherals not the core itself is a good one. Most of the times, we don't need fast cores, just fast and rich peripherals.

My old Keil has those device in the database, the start-up file but no header files. Weird.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2014, 05:05:37 pm »
Or you could buy one of those $4 kit and break off the target board and and solder four wires to your new chips.

I think they provide a header on the programmer / debugger side.

But no Keil support for the programmer - not sure about IAR. So for me J-link is the only way to go.
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Offline Laurynas

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2014, 09:34:29 pm »
those 4$ kits are bootloader/serial based, not SWD, so they can't replace 25$ pioneer yet

not sure what you meant by keil/IAR, but you can export Creator projects:
http://www.cypress.com/?rID=92387&cache=0&source=creatorStartPage
and you can setup your custom toolchains as well

oh, and as for UDBs, CRC is one of standard UDB components
 

Offline electrodacus

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2014, 01:55:40 am »
I use the STM32F050 in my Solar BMS.
Is 64KB Flash and 8KB RAM.
I use CooCox + gcc
My choice was mostly based on low power consumption and capacitive buttons.
Here is a 3D render of the solar BMS currently on Kickstarter

Offline poorchava

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2014, 12:23:30 pm »
Quote
Mouser mentions shipping by 4/21 but their shipping to Europe might be about the same not sure, it's about $6 in the us.
yaaa....


Quote from: electrodacus
I use the STM32F050 in my Solar BMS.
Is 64KB Flash and 8KB RAM.
I use CooCox + gcc

I use the same combination. I like it alot.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 12:28:14 pm by poorchava »
I love the smell of FR4 in the morning!
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2014, 02:41:02 pm »
Why not order from cypress direct? I ordered these now and paid only $15 in shipping, to Norway.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2014, 02:59:58 pm »
The board fits into a cardboard CD case, and then in a basic envelope.  This can be send anywhere in the world for 2-3$ (air mail priority whatever). 

It's just stupid to ask for 15 dollars to ship a board that can be shipped like a CD anywhere in the world.

I get it that they maybe have a contract and use bigger boxes to ship anything so they have a minimum shipping fee of 15$ (I can probably put 100 at quantity and get 100 boards with 15$ shipping)... I just don't feel like paying 15$ to ship a 4$ board so they lost me - I'd rather spend that 15$ to get 5-10 different pic chips from farnell with my next order. That's how you lose potential new developers for your chips.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2014, 03:07:44 pm »
well, $15 is better than €40... and I ordered 4 of them to compensate for the shippingcost :)
but yes, i agree, if you get someone in US to order, and ship, it will be much cheaper though.

Same with Atmel, I think it was $30 in shipping for the new programmer atmel-ice, so for now, I'm on hold on that one..
 

Offline gmb42

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2014, 03:57:26 pm »
If they get to Farnell and I can get my usual free shipping for orders over £20, then I'll get some.  I'll just have to be patient.
 

Offline granz

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2014, 04:14:26 pm »
Recently I've been heavily going back to PICs (8,16 and 32 bit) after a few detours into NXP ARMs in recent years.
The main reasons being, in no particular order :
* same programmer for all devices, and Pickit 3's standalone programmer-to-go mode is absolutely ideal for production programming, either on a jig or handheld - I can just give it to a subcontractor and tell them to connect it, press a button and check the light goes green.
* Same IDE for all devices, and very similar compilers
* Similar peripherals from 8 to 32 bit devices
* I can order preprogrammed parts from Microchipdirect for a few pennies and a couple of days extra.
* wide range pf packages from DIP to QFN
* Pin mapping, especially on PIC24 - pity this is a lot more limited on the PIC32MX
* Internal oscillators that are accurate enough to do UARTs - it has taken some manufacturers a while to catch up with this.
* always available.

I often find myself going back to PICs for those same reasons, after several detours.  The PIC24s are very handy because of PPS, and it is super quick to layout a cheap 2-layer board because routing becomes easier.  Internal oscillator for USB is also great.  USB+PPS+No crystal is a great combo.  Recently I used the PIC24FJxxGCxx series (not really low-end) and was quite happy with VBAT mode to keep the RTCC alive at something like 350nA.

I also am interested in the PIC32MZ, but it seems like they have been struggling with silicon bugs (last I looked at least).  Long-term availability is generally very important to me, and I've never had problems with PICs in that regard.

 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2014, 11:06:48 pm »
Quote
PIC32MZ

I would put PIC32 in the same bag as AVR32 (the Atmel homebrew version), XMEGA and XMOS/Propeller etc. as things that are hopelessly dead before they are even born.

PIC24, on the other hand, is severely under marketed and under appreciated: Think what Microchip could have been had they invested a little more on that a few years earlier.
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Offline westfw

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2014, 12:01:20 am »
Quote
if you get someone in US to order, and ship, it will be much cheaper though.
I order 20 chips, a Pioneer board, and 4 of the "prototyping kits", direct from Cypress, to the US, and was charged $12 shipping (it doesn't look like it will get sent in one package, though.)

A "hobbyist retailer" may optimize their packaging and shipping for small orders, but it's rather unlikely that an electronics distributor or manufacturer would do so.  (that said, I was impressed by the XMOS "Startkit" mailer/packaging...)
 

Offline granz

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2014, 12:04:37 am »
Quote
PIC32MZ

I would put PIC32 in the same bag as AVR32 (the Atmel homebrew version), XMEGA and XMOS/Propeller etc. as things that are hopelessly dead before they are even born.

PIC24, on the other hand, is severely under marketed and under appreciated: Think what Microchip could have been had they invested a little more on that a few years earlier.

Yes, I agree, I have concerns about the long-term life of the PIC32 as well (new parts + support).   It's too bad though, MIPS is quite a nice architecture.  I guess it remains to be seen.

I think I've used PIC24 varieties more then any other microcontroller.

 

Offline senso

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2014, 12:19:28 am »
I might get one of those 4$(5€ at Mouser) in a collective order so we don't have to pay for shipping from Mouser.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2014, 12:25:07 am »
Microchip is a victim of its own (super) success: PICs have been a great story for them, so much so that they wanted to milk that cow a little bit too long. Before they realized it, technology turned against them.

A sad story.
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Offline hli

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2014, 09:02:23 am »
The UDBs in those  chips are very interesting: kind of fpga-on-a-chip. Not sure how capable they are. Making a CRC or encryption engine out of them would be interesting.
There is already a CRC component available, no need to do this by yourself.

Otherwise, the rest of the peripherals not as impressive.
Did you ever look at the list of available components? Just because a peripheral is not available in hardware directly, it doesn't mean its not available as UDB solution...
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2014, 10:55:14 am »
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Just because a peripheral is not available in hardware directly, it doesn't mean its not available as UDB solution...

How many of them can you have concurrently?

Just because you can create many peripherals doesn't mean you can have them all at the same time.
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Offline Laurynas

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2014, 11:41:08 am »
Quote
Just because a peripheral is not available in hardware directly, it doesn't mean its not available as UDB solution...

How many of them can you have concurrently?

Just because you can create many peripherals doesn't mean you can have them all at the same time.

This depends on a chip. They have PSoC4 with more UDBs on their roadmap and there is always an option to go PSoC5 for much more UDBs and analog stuff.

I'm not sure how often you need ALL peripherals at the same time, but I think you can reconfigure UDBs in software to use them for different purposes.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2014, 12:41:28 pm »
Rarely I used ALL peripherals. But it is common for me to have a few SPIs, a couple UART, 4+ PWM channels, and a couple timers + 1-2 adc channels.

The incorporation of CPLD/FPGA into a mcu is certainly quite interesting. I was simply trying to get a sense as to how many of those peripherals you can create with 4 UDBs.
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