Author Topic: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs  (Read 28561 times)

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Offline Royce

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2014, 03:13:22 pm »
I got my ProtoKits (2x42 1x41) yesterday and was able to tink with them a little after my wife and child went to bed. I did have to read and execute the ProtoKit guide's bootloading section, linked at the bottom of the kit product page, carefully to get the thing to work. I got weird results before that.

Anyway, it is an interesting mixture. I haven't worked with UDB blocks before. I'm a little hesitant about all the generated code, but at least you can see it all. The links to the datasheets for the modules are pretty handy too. And apparently you can even make your own UDBs.

I'm sure it will take some getting used to. The first thing I tried, putting a clock straight out on a pin, was a no go, for example. It has to go thru something to get to a pin. But I did get a compile error and the message was enough to clue me in to the fact that I couldn't push the clock directly to a pin even though the schematic drawing thing would like me hook that up.

I definitely think this chip will be worth the time investment to learn. (Time is one of my more valuable assets these days)
 

Offline hli

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2014, 09:09:07 pm »
I'm sure it will take some getting used to. The first thing I tried, putting a clock straight out on a pin, was a no go, for example. It has to go thru something to get to a pin. But I did get a compile error and the message was enough to clue me in to the fact that I couldn't push the clock directly to a pin even though the schematic drawing thing would like me hook that up.
That used to work with PSoC3/5, but with PSoC4 there were some changes in the clocking system. Fortunately, there is a nice explanation in the PSoC Sensei Blog. (The follow-ups to that explain the fractional clock dividers, and the chained clock divider system, which give you 12 different clocks if needed).
Quote
I definitely think this chip will be worth the time investment to learn. (Time is one of my more valuable assets these days)
I think it is. Whenever I am about to prototype something in hardware, I take out a PSoC5 board. Its so much easier when you just draw a schematic, configure some components and are ready. I once did a 2-channel-scope+8-bit-logic-analyzer just in a single chip, together with the whole triggering stuff, PGAs and so.
 

Offline vvanders

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2014, 12:07:52 am »
That was a big part in my buying the pioneer. You still have to solder on headers and get an external programmer but its the highest end psoc5 as well.

spent some more time with the idea last night, love the mixed schematic\source editing. Very C#ish which is a large plus in my book. Had logic driven pwm up and working in less than 5 minutes. I only wish the psoc4 had all the analog goodies that psoc5 has(PGA, vdac, etc).
 

Offline vvanders

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2014, 09:29:55 pm »
You know, now that I think about it the Prototype boards might make a nice platform for a cheap hobby logic analyzer/oscope. I think I remember reading the ADC on the 42xx can do ~60kHz and the UDB can run logic at 48Mhz. Shame there's no DMA but I might see how quickly the CPU can offload data from UDB to SRAM. Even 24Mhz would be enough to capture up to a 10Mhz SPI bus.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2014, 10:04:50 pm »
You know, now that I think about it the Prototype boards might make a nice platform for a cheap hobby logic analyzer/oscope. I think I remember reading the ADC on the 42xx can do ~60kHz and the UDB can run logic at 48Mhz. Shame there's no DMA but I might see how quickly the CPU can offload data from UDB to SRAM. Even 24Mhz would be enough to capture up to a 10Mhz SPI bus.

From: http://www.cypress.com/?docID=46322
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12-bit SAR ADC
The 12-bit 1 MSample/second SAR ADC can operate at a
maximum clock rate of 18 MHz and requires a minimum of 18
clocks at that frequency to do a 12-bit conversion.

So 8 datapoints for the oscilloscope, gives you 200KHz for the scope part of the device
4 datapoints 400KHz

Couple of pioneer (PSoC 4200 based) projects:
http://www.element14.com/community/thread/24287/l/psoc-4-pioneer-kit-community-project17--2-channel-oscope-with-graphicslcd
http://www.element14.com/community/thread/24101/l/psoc-4-pioneer-kit-community-project012-pioneer-board-oscilloscope

Main link to the 100 projects
http://www.element14.com/community/thread/23736/l/100-projects-in-100-days
Those can be adapted to the protoboard fairly easy (other than the one that uses the PSoC5 chip)

 

Offline tjaeger

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #80 on: April 08, 2014, 01:47:19 am »
STM32L0x2 looks awesome:  Cortex M0+, Super-low power, EEPROM, crystall-less USB, 1MSPS ADC/DAC, LCD.  Hopefully cheaper than the STM32L1.

http://www.st.com/web/en/cn/catalog/mmc/SC1169/SS1817

Quote
Check the documentation now ! The devices will be on the shelves within April 2014 !
I find this very hard to believe...
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #81 on: April 08, 2014, 07:20:13 am »
Given that the STM32L0 start at 32kB they will probably not be super cheap.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #82 on: April 08, 2014, 10:48:32 am »
ST track record in meeting their delivery deadline isn't that great. The 32F030 chips are supposed to be widely available early 1Q14, for example. But they are nowhere to be found.
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Online HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #83 on: April 08, 2014, 11:29:51 am »
ST track record in meeting their delivery deadline isn't that great. The 32F030 chips are supposed to be widely available early 1Q14, for example. But they are nowhere to be found.

Seems like mouser, Digikey, RS, and others have some.

but the 20 pin TSSOP versions are very scarce.
I want a few now, element 14 had 1500 recently now they have 0. Should've been quicker.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 11:32:23 am by HackedFridgeMagnet »
 

Offline Crazy Ape

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2014, 01:45:46 pm »
ST track record in meeting their delivery deadline isn't that great. The 32F030 chips are supposed to be widely available early 1Q14, for example. But they are nowhere to be found.

Seems like mouser, Digikey, RS, and others have some.

but the 20 pin TSSOP versions are very scarce.
I want a few now, element 14 had 1500 recently now they have 0. Should've been quicker.

Seems to be a few of the 20 pin TSSOP versions kicking about on Aliexpress, just grabbed 5 of them to have a play with.
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=STM32F030F4P6
 

Online HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2014, 02:09:05 pm »
Thanks for the tip Crazy ape.

Got some too.

Never bought chips of Ali before, but had good experiences with my other purchases.
 

Offline Crazy Ape

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2014, 03:12:49 pm »
Thanks for the tip Crazy ape.

Got some too.

Never bought chips of Ali before, but had good experiences with my other purchases.

You hear of fake chips floating about on Chinese sites from time to time but I'm yet to come across any personally, though I do stick to sellers that have feedback and a number of previous sales, seems to be fairly safe. My guess is that most of them are excess from production runs and likely already been paid for once, so prices are often very good.

You'll find crazily cheap prices on some of the more expensive chips from time to time, great for hobbyist/prototyping related purchases.
Example (I personally bought and used these):
$11 - Cy7c1061av33-10zxc  (16Mbit 10ns SRAM)
$5   - Adv7123jstz330 (Triple 330MHZ Video DAC)
 

Offline kert

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2014, 02:56:40 am »
I have a hobby of scanning Octopart and Digikey for the cheapest ARM cores now and then. STM32F030 and Freescale Kinetis KE04 line are in my "absolutely have to play with one of these as soon as time allows" list. Kinetis KL03 and KL02 plus LPC1102 "chip scale package" or UFBGA ones are there too, just because they are so tiny, so i want to see if i can  fit them in very small servos and such.
 

Online westfw

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2014, 07:32:42 am »
The chip scale packages are depressing.  Not only do I think I can't solder them, I think I can't get a PCB made at reasonable cost.  It looks like things should be 4/4/4mil and six layers (although perhaps the smaller 0.4mm WSCP BGA packages could get away with only 4 layer?)
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2014, 10:48:59 am »
If it is only for prototyping etc, you can use proto-advantage.com, find the appropriate board, something like this:
http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4000011
enter the digikey number for the part, and you get pcb with the part ready soldered..
 

Offline Crazy Ape

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2014, 11:23:28 am »
If it is only for prototyping etc, you can use proto-advantage.com, find the appropriate board, something like this:
http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4000011
enter the digikey number for the part, and you get pcb with the part ready soldered..
I don't think proto-advantage have a suitable board just yet, at least I couldn't see any.
There are folks playing with these tiny chips though, here are some random (though interesting) LPC1102 links from around the internet.

So small it's scary!
http://static.electro-tech-online.com/customimages/2011/07/1701_hi-1.jpg

DIP adapter layout (via's directly under center four balls).
http://www.electro-tech-online.com/attachments/jason-01-gif.55164/

A D.I.Y. etched single sided board.
http://320volt.com/en/lpc1102-arm-icin-cevirici-karti-header-board-pcb/

An interesting (hack) method from Russia (re-route the die interconnects of a different chip)
http://habrahabr.ru/post/218233/
http://beta.hstor.org/getpro/habr/post_images/17f/3ab/75d/17f3ab75d5f9169808049a7c59fdcf6b.jpg
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2014, 11:54:29 am »
I can guess that it's also by demand ?, i got some qfn10 and qfn20 packages soldered like that, way to tiny for my solderingskillz.. :)
 

Offline kert

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2014, 10:41:48 pm »
The chip scale packages are depressing.  Not only do I think I can't solder them, I think I can't get a PCB made at reasonable cost.  It looks like things should be 4/4/4mil and six layers (although perhaps the smaller 0.4mm WSCP BGA packages could get away with only 4 layer?)
Agreed, CSPs and things like LGA pcb modules ( some newer wireless modules do that ) can be pretty depressing, but still an interesting challenge.
I was searching for pretty much any prototyping solution for these tiny bumped WLCSP modules and didnt actually find any. I would think that something along the SchmartBoardEZ BGA soldering approach could be made to work, though.

If it is only for prototyping etc, you can use proto-advantage.com, find the appropriate board, something like this:
Thanks for the protoadvantage tip, this will become handy.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 10:43:49 pm by kert »
 

Offline kert

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2014, 02:35:55 pm »
I don't think proto-advantage have a suitable board just yet, at least I couldn't see any.
There are folks playing with these tiny chips though, here are some random (though interesting) LPC1102 links from around the internet.

I sent them a request through their "give me a part number, we'll suggest a board" link and they recommended this
http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4000011

They'll just place the part in the corner. I ordered both MKL02Z32CAF4R and LPC1102UK,118 populated, will see how it works.
 

Offline Crazy Ape

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2014, 03:17:41 pm »
I don't think proto-advantage have a suitable board just yet, at least I couldn't see any.
There are folks playing with these tiny chips though, here are some random (though interesting) LPC1102 links from around the internet.

I sent them a request through their "give me a part number, we'll suggest a board" link and they recommended this
http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4000011

They'll just place the part in the corner. I ordered both MKL02Z32CAF4R and LPC1102UK,118 populated, will see how it works.

The LPC1102UK is 0.5mm pitch so should work, but the MKL02Z32CAF4R is a 0.4mm pitch part.
 

Offline paulie

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2014, 08:53:21 pm »
I sent them a request through their "give me a part number, we'll suggest a board" link and they recommended this
http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4000011

$21 plus $5 sh. lol.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2014, 10:43:16 pm »

$21 plus $5 sh. lol.

Do it better yourself then.. without equipment it's cheap and easy, but ofcourse, if you find soldering this stuff easy, why not?
 

Offline paulie

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2014, 10:53:43 pm »
i have done it myself, and its VERY easy. 2 minutes with a $3 reball kit and embossing heat gun. i just find it amusing that anyone would consider paying that to play with a $1 chip. specially when a short session on eagle and 1 week turnaround with osh would get a few made for about 1/20th that cost. of course places like that will always take advantage of those with money to burn and little sense of value.
 

Online westfw

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2014, 01:41:41 am »
Quote
a short session on eagle and 1 week turnaround with osh would get a few made for about 1/20th that cost.
If you actually try that, let us know how it goes.  I got as far as the layout, and found that I couldn't come CLOSE to the published oshpark design rules:

Quote
The minimum specs for 2 layer orders are 6 mil traces with 6 mil spacing, and 13 mil drills with 7 mil annular rings.
The minimum specs for 4 layer orders are 5 mil traces with 5 mil spacing, and 10 mil drills with 4 mil annular rings.

The trace/spacing doesn't allow for running tracks between balls, and the drill size doesn't allow for a multi-layer breakout, even with vias in the pads.  It's not just a little beyond the design rules, either: it's about 40% (I can get it to work with 3/3mil width/clearance.)  Oh, it MIGHT work.  But that's not the way to design a PCB.

And that was for the NXP (.5mm BGA) part.  The freescale part has 0.4mm ball spacing.

And no, I'm not considering "paying $20 for a PCB to use a $1 chip"; I'm just finding those chips unusable.  (There are presumably PCB companies than can do 3/3mil boards.  But none that I know of in the "pay by the square inch" or "<$20 for 5 boards" category.  So I'd be looking at significantly MORE than $20 to put the chips on a home-designed PCB as well.)

 

Offline poorchava

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Re: Highly anticipated low-end MCUs
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2014, 07:50:33 am »
TI recommends 3.1mil track/gap for 0.5mm pitch WCSPs, via size 0.254mm, sole size 0.127mm. I would call that deeeeep in hardcore smarphone-level HDI field.
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