Author Topic: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux  (Read 29362 times)

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Online Howardlong

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2016, 07:46:50 am »
Not wishing to sidetrack the thread from the OP's predicament, this OSS incident happened last week http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/

What's almost as shocking is the quality of the code itself in terms of efficiency at the centre of the storm, pretty much shows how little care some self-proclaimed programmers take!

Code: [Select]
module.exports = leftpad;

function leftpad (str, len, ch) {
  str = String(str);

  var i = -1;

  if (!ch && ch !== 0) ch = ' ';

  len = len - str.length;

  while (++i < len) {
    str = ch + str;
  }

  return str;
}
 

Offline hamster_nz

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #101 on: April 04, 2016, 09:49:26 am »
Not wishing to sidetrack the thread from the OP's predicament, this OSS incident happened last week http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/

What's almost as shocking is the quality of the code itself in terms of efficiency at the centre of the storm, pretty much shows how little care some self-proclaimed programmers take!

Code: [Select]
module.exports = leftpad;

function leftpad (str, len, ch) {
  str = String(str);

  var i = -1;

  if (!ch && ch !== 0) ch = ' ';

  len = len - str.length;

  while (++i < len) {
    str = ch + str;
  }

  return str;
}
I don't know Javascript (well, I assume that it is Javascript...)  What is so terribly bad about it? Or more to the point, how would it be done better?

It seems to do what is asked of it, and unless 'len' is stupidly long it seems to have OK performance.  I can see that repeatedly adding a character to the front of the string most likely isn't the most efficient way, but it is Javascript after all, but 5 or 6 passes of the loop isn't going to kill you. It might be more efficient than building a separate string to use to pad the front and then having all the allocation and garbage collection associated with that.

(or maybe I can hear a whooshing sound...)
Gaze not into the abyss, lest you become recognized as an abyss domain expert, and they expect you keep gazing into the damn thing.
 
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Offline hamster_nz

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2016, 10:08:45 am »
Just hold the phone. I'm not having it!
Where do you think you are? This is not the place for sensible rational debate. If we start expecting people to explain their positions we might start resolving things.

Oh, yeah, you're right! Maybe I should head back to twitter and see what @nibblerpoop has been up to...
Gaze not into the abyss, lest you become recognized as an abyss domain expert, and they expect you keep gazing into the damn thing.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #103 on: April 04, 2016, 10:22:22 am »
I recently also have some new experience with embedded linux. So here it is.
The way you do things is just horrid. I have to fish together information from 100 sources, where files are located, how to build something, what to access, dependencies.
Bear in mind, we are talking about embedded stuff.
The scripts to have the thing working accesses several http locations, downloading the latest and shiniest code.
Are
you
kidding
me
?
I downloaded a piece of python code, which was a dependency to the code to run, which accessed the network and downloaded some new code. How is this going to work 5 minutes from now? If any of these links stops working, then I never can make this work again? Are linux people full retard, or they just love the fact that they have to go into the deep shit of error logs and google search it, every time someone breaks something? Real house of cards, that is.
When I was developing embedded code, it was easy. Take the libraries you need, commit it on the version control, together with the project and the C code.
Linux? Never ending list of commands, where any of those might pop up questions, ask for password, or interrupt any other way, and of course dump some useless information into the terminal, encoded in robot language.
Hopefully I can convince them to dump the entire thing into the ocean, and redesign the stuff with some RTOS, where the hardware and software cost is the fraction.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #104 on: April 04, 2016, 10:28:09 am »
I think you are referring to one of the embedded build eco-systems like openembedded, buildroot, etc. At least buildroot (and probably all of them) keep a local cache with the downloaded files. So if you backup that you'll always have the exact versions you build your system with. Downloading all the files is just an initial step to pull a complete software package together.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 10:32:38 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #105 on: April 04, 2016, 10:51:08 am »
... this OSS incident happened last week ...

Coverity, a company specializing in software quality and security testing solutions, finds that open source programs tend to have fewer errors than proprietary programs.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/coverity-finds-open-source-software-quality-better-than-proprietary-code/

The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2016, 11:03:51 am »
I recently also have some new experience with embedded linux. So here it is.
The way you do things is just horrid. I have to fish together information from 100 sources, where files are located, how to build something, what to access, dependencies.
Bear in mind, we are talking about embedded stuff.
The scripts to have the thing working accesses several http locations, downloading the latest and shiniest code.
Are
you
kidding
me
?
I downloaded a piece of python code, which was a dependency to the code to run, which accessed the network and downloaded some new code. How is this going to work 5 minutes from now? If any of these links stops working, then I never can make this work again? Are linux people full retard, or they just love the fact that they have to go into the deep shit of error logs and google search it, every time someone breaks something? Real house of cards, that is.
When I was developing embedded code, it was easy. Take the libraries you need, commit it on the version control, together with the project and the C code.
Linux? Never ending list of commands, where any of those might pop up questions, ask for password, or interrupt any other way, and of course dump some useless information into the terminal, encoded in robot language.
Hopefully I can convince them to dump the entire thing into the ocean, and redesign the stuff with some RTOS, where the hardware and software cost is the fraction.

exactly the feel I have when I say I HATE it  :D
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2016, 11:31:13 am »
Take the libraries you need, commit it on the version control, together with the project and the C code

Code: [Select]
sakura # mydev all list

        2. 6 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_basen2_v3
        1. 1 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_bit_set_v1
        4. 5 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_bitmap_v2
        4. 2 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_bitmap_v3
        5. 8 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_cal_stamp_v1
        1. 6 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_debug_v1
        1. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_endian_v2
       12. 1 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_collector_mini_v1
        2. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_disk_io_v1
        4. 8 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_pool_label_v1
        4. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_pool_string_v1
        3. 8 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_shell_cmd_v1
        1. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_toy_v1
      658. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_env_wrapper_v1
        1. 2 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_fileIO_unix_v1
        2. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_file_utils_v1
        2. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_file_utils_v2
        3. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_filename_filter_v3
        2. 6 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_filename_utils_v8
        2. 2 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_fs_folder_level_v1
        1. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_fs_folder_level_v2
        5. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_lexer_reserved_word_language_l1_show_v7b
        5. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_lexer_reserved_word_language_l1_v7b
        1. 8 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_lexer_reserved_word_v7b
        1. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_lexer_tokenize_v7b
        8. 5 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_lexer_v7b
        1. 6 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_linea_v2
        5. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_list_handler_v1
       10. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_mystring_v1
       10. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_mystring_v2
        2. 8 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_net_udp_ip_v1
        1. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_pico_shell_slush_addon_v4
        6. 8 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_pico_shell_slush_v4
      952. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_pico_shell_toy_v4
        1. 3 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_progress_bar_v2.2
       13. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_queue_gp_v3
        8. 6 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_safestring_v2
        3. 2 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_serial_unix_v3
        3. 5 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_serial_unix_v4
        2. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_string_fuzzy_match_v1
       10. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_tokener_fast_v8
       10. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_tokener_fast_v8b
        7. 1 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_tokener_fussy_v8
        6. 0 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_tokener_language_show_v1
        5. 2 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_tokener_language_v1
        8. 7 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_tokener_v8
        6. 1 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_uart_unix_v5
        2. 1 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_udpip_v2
        1. 9 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_unix_termio_kb_v2
        4. 4 /idp.do/mysrc/lib/lib_unix_termio_kb_v4

Code: [Select]
sakura # mydev lib_progress_bar

last version: v2.2
already committed: yes, 2015/12/10, by root@sakura
last access: 2015/12/10
test bench: passed
status: quality compliance untested

sakura # mydev lib_progress_bar_v2.2 list

        4. 3 Kbyte Makefile
        4. 1 Kbyte lib_progress_bar.c
      384. 0  byte lib_progress_bar.h
      375. 0  byte lib_progress_bar.interface
       25. 0  byte lib_progress_bar.private
        4. 0 Kbyte obj
        4. 0 Kbyte test
        3. 7 Kbyte test_lib_progress_bar.c
      204. 0  byte test_lib_progress_bar.interface
      113. 0  byte test_lib_progress_bar.private

Code: [Select]
sakura # mylib mk lib_progress_bar_v2.3
sakura lib_progress_bar_v2.3 # mylib import from lib_progress_bar_v2.2

calling build-project-makefile-v4.2
MYINCLUDE={ -I/idp.do/mysrc/lib  -I./   }
.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
all_src[]={  lib_progress_bar.c  test_lib_progress_bar.c  }
----------------------------------------------------------------------
all_obj[]={  lib_progress_bar.o  test_lib_progress_bar.o  }
----------------------------------------------------------------------
all_obx[]={  obj  }
----------------------------------------------------------------------
all_slb[]={  ./lib_progress_bar.c  }
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Code: [Select]
sakura lib_progress_bar_v2.3 # make clean_all
- cleaning interfaces .
- cleaning all

Code: [Select]
sakura lib_progress_bar_v2.3 # make interfaces
- touching interface private
- touching interface public
- generating interface private for lib_progress_bar
- generating interface private for test_lib_progress_bar
- generating interface public for lib_progress_bar
- generating interface public for test_lib_progress_bar

Code: [Select]
sakura lib_progress_bar_v2.3 # make
- compiling lib_progress_bar ... done
- compiling test_lib_progress_bar ... done
- linking to my

Code: [Select]
sakura lib_progress_bar_v2.3 # make commit
- committing ...… done

Code: [Select]
sakura # mydev lib_progress_bar

last version: v2.3
already committed: yes, 2016/04/04, by root@sakura
last access: 2016/04/04
test bench: untested
status: quality compliance untested

I can do it, only for hobby  ;D ;D ;D
 

Online nctnico

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2016, 11:33:24 am »
I see you build as root? I suppose this is in a sandbox because running cross compilations as root can cause serious damage to your build system if one of the autoconfig files does not behave properly and starts overwriting system files.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2016, 11:36:53 am »
I see you build as root? I suppose this is in a sandbox

yes, in a sandbox
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #110 on: April 04, 2016, 11:40:08 am »
(the trick comes from gentoo
mean emerge uses sandboxes
and I have recycled that code)
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #111 on: April 04, 2016, 11:55:52 am »
used in a real complex application  :D

Code: [Select]
sakura otaku_v1 # obj/test

Otaku
hAllo!

# help
new parser
      [help] kind3 1:1 token_StrictAlphaNum, type21
command (2)
cmd_help()
cmd_list, 50 items
exit................ - byebye
?................... - cmd list
help................ - show specific cmd help
ver................. - version
my.................. - proof, provided by shell_init
idevice............. - swi tap set
iclass.............. - swi tap set
ireg................ - swi tap set
get................. - swi tap reg get
put................. - swi tap reg put
id.................. - swi tap identify
ping................ - swi tap ping
resync.............. - swi tap resync
open................ - swi tap open
close............... - swi tap close
con................. - swi tap connect
tapS................ - swi tap server
scan................ - swi tap client scan
mode................ - swi tap mode
grid................ - swi tap grip
regs................ - swi tap reg show
cv.................. - code view
d1.................. - ncurses demo1
d2.................. - ncurses demo2
d3.................. - ncurses demo3
oo.................. - rom emulator init
oc.................. - rom emulator init
ow.................. - rom emulator write
or.................. - rom emulator read
srec................ - srec to bin
sl.................. - srec load
ans=True

# exit
byebye


Code: [Select]
sakura otaku_v1 # mydev project
info: Arise-v2 debug processor
class: app

Code: [Select]
sakura otaku_v1 # mydev project hierarchy
the project is composed by the following local sub modules:

app_my_dbg_swi
lib_app_my_dbg_swi
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5

lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/tap
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/tap/fsm
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/tap/l1
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/tap/grid
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/tap/protocol 

lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/device/handler
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/device/lib_net_tcp_ip_v0.2_my
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/device/lib_net_udp_ip_v0.2_my
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/device/lib_net_v2
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/device/lib_uart_obj_v0.2
lib_my_dbg_swi_v5/device/tap_device

lib_debugger_code_view_v1
lib_debugger_code_view_v1/demo
lib_debugger_code_view_v1/demo2

lib_unix_termio_kb_v4
lib_rom_emulator_ostrich2_v1
lib_progress_bar_v3
lib_srec_to_bin_light_v3

Code: [Select]
sakura otaku_v1 # mydev project lib
the project depends on the following committed libraries:

lib_pico_shell_slush_v4.o
lib_pico_shell_slush_addon_v4.o
lib_pico_shell_toy_v4.o

lib_tokener_v8.o
lib_tokener_fast_v8b.o
lib_tokener_language_Z_v1.o
lib_tokener_language_Z_show_v1.o

lib_bitmap_v3.o
lib_bit_set_v1.o
lib_basen2_v3.o

lib_safestring_v2.o

lib_debug_v1.o

lib_linea_v2.o
lib_fileIO_unix_v1.o
lib_net_udp_ip_v1.o

Code: [Select]
sakura otaku_v1 # mydev project ilib
the project depends on the following OS libraries

ncurses
form
pthread
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #112 on: April 04, 2016, 02:12:50 pm »
Quote
PPCDEV-SP3-7457: Pre-Configured Linux Sandpoint X3 Motherboard with Valis X3 MPC7457 PMC Module

Features
MPC7457 host processor @ 1.3 GHz
Tundra Tsi107 bridge chip
JTAG connector on PMC module
One PMC slot on Sandpoint motherboard to accept processor PMC modules
Switch-selectable modes
Four 5V 32-bit PCI slots at 33 MHz
Two standard 16650-compatible serial ports
IEEE 1284 parallel port
NVRAM and real-time clock (RTC)
Two IDE ports
LED monitors critical functions
Advanced Power Controller ("soft on/off")
Standard System Configuration

MPC7457 host processor @ 1.3 GHz
Tundra Tsi107 bridge chip
64 or 128MByte of SDRAM memory and a 2MByte DDRSRAM L3 cache
ATX mini-tower case
DINK32 debug monitor ROM
Yellow Dog Linux kernel 2.4.21-rcl (pre-installed, CDs included)
Network card
40GB hard drive
IDE cable


what obsolete part resellers are still offering in business: v2.4.21  :-DD :-DD :-DD
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2016, 02:53:07 pm »
Coverity, a company specializing in software quality and security testing solutions, finds that open source programs tend to have fewer errors than proprietary programs.
synopsis should also compare open source programs "documentation" and proprietary programs "documentation".
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #114 on: April 04, 2016, 04:52:15 pm »
Coverity, a company specializing in software quality and security testing solutions, finds that open source programs tend to have fewer errors than proprietary programs.
synopsis should also compare open source programs "documentation" and proprietary programs "documentation".
Both will be just as bad. A while ago Microsoft hired they guy behind the sysinternals tools because he is the only one who actually understands how Windows works under the hood.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #115 on: April 04, 2016, 05:29:47 pm »
It is notorious that all programmers suck on documentation.  It is interesting that all of the worldwide peer review on open source software does not result in software that is unquestionably better documented than other softwares.  The point is not whether it is better or not, just the fact that is debatable speaks volumes.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #116 on: April 04, 2016, 05:44:49 pm »
It is notorious that all programmers suck on documentation.  It is interesting that all of the worldwide peer review on open source software does not result in software that is unquestionably better documented than other softwares.  The point is not whether it is better or not, just the fact that is debatable speaks volumes.
I think the reason is easy: documenting is boring to many people and it takes time. So it doesn't happen when doing programming for fun and it doesn't happen when on a payroll.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #117 on: April 04, 2016, 07:42:38 pm »
Both will be just as bad. A while ago Microsoft hired they guy behind the sysinternals tools because he is the only one who actually understands how Windows works under the hood.
i was not talking about code's documentation. i was talking about the documentation of the end product, to the users, not the programmers. and my reply was not about OS documentation, but the gazzillions of "programs" (softwares) out there, since the synopsis survey was on the "programs".
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 07:46:25 pm by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #118 on: April 04, 2016, 07:48:53 pm »
Both will be just as bad. A while ago Microsoft hired they guy behind the sysinternals tools because he is the only one who actually understands how Windows works under the hood.
i was not talking about code's documentation. i was talking about the documentation of the end product, to the users, not the programmers.


Maybe go and have a browse through the gentoo website (The OP's linux distro). You might be surprised.

It is stupid to comment on OSS having good or bad documentation. Individual projects will have better or worse docs which has nothing to do with OSS.

 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #119 on: April 05, 2016, 03:41:52 am »
It is notorious that all programmers suck on documentation.  It is interesting that all of the worldwide peer review on open source software does not result in software that is unquestionably better documented than other softwares.  The point is not whether it is better or not, just the fact that is debatable speaks volumes.
I think the reason is easy: documenting is boring to many people and it takes time. So it doesn't happen when doing programming for fun and it doesn't happen when on a payroll.

Of course it isn't fun.  Hasn't been fun since my coding course in university when punch cards were the way to enter code.  But in open source where hundreds of different people are maintaining code, where people come and go as time and motivation wax and wane you would think that documentation, particularly in the code, would be more important than just about any place else.  The usual defense against poorly documented code is to throw it out and start over.  That would totally end any argument about the maturity and deep peer review of OS code, including the OS.
 

Online krish2487

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #120 on: April 05, 2016, 04:22:52 am »


>
Quote
Of course it isn't fun.  Hasn't been fun since my coding course in university when punch cards were the way to enter code.  But in open source where hundreds of different people are maintaining code, where people come and go as time and motivation wax and wane you would think that documentation, particularly in the code, would be more important than just about any place else.  The usual defense against poorly documented code is to throw it out and start over.  That would totally end any argument about the maturity and deep peer review of OS code, including the OS.
You are assuming that in a commercial environment these factors are not an issue. Except, the onus shifts from the programmer to the project manager. What if the manager in question has neither the motivation nor the time to get documentation done by his team. Or worse still, is not fully aware of the importance of documentation. After all, being a commercial outfit, their priority is first to survive by selling a product/service, documentation is a second priority.
If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Offline ade

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #121 on: April 05, 2016, 04:49:16 am »
Linux is big (big!) business and today its core parts are primarily maintained by professional developers employed by large companies as part of their jobs.

E.g., if you look at the kernel, only about 10% of the contributions come from individual developers.  90% from the likes of IBM, Google, Samsung, Texas Instruments, Renesas, etc.   

Even Microsoft has been embracing Linux and open source (recently they announced SQL Server support for Linux). 

Similar stats can be derived from other major OSS projects.   E.g., Microsoft is now a major contributor to Apache, along with IBM, HP and ARM.    Eclipse was developed by IBM and continues to be heavily supported by IBM.   They are also a big force behind Node.js with Intel.  clang/LLVM gets major funding from Apple.  mysql is now Oracle.  Etc., etc.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #122 on: April 05, 2016, 05:22:06 am »
Then how come they caused me major pain in the rear installing OpenCV on a Ubuntu machine.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline ade

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #123 on: April 05, 2016, 06:25:29 am »
OpenCV is almost trivial to install on Ubuntu.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #124 on: April 05, 2016, 06:27:27 am »
Then how come they caused me major pain in the rear installing OpenCV on a Ubuntu machine.

Have you thought about a computer course?
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 


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