Author Topic: Raspberry Pi Pico  (Read 39843 times)

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Offline Rasz

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #325 on: June 03, 2021, 08:37:11 am »
its the old Soviet trick - the pricing is always very reasonable when there is no merchandise in stock

Because they are still producing them  :palm:

Everyone is "still producing them". GPU vendors, car electronic suppliers, even STMicroelectronics STM32, everyone is on a waiting list and everything is on backlog aka no merchandise in stock. I can offer you $1 AMD Ryzen 9 5950X by the pallet, but its currently out of stock, have some $1000 ones instead in the mean time.

"Available to back order for despatch 04/08/2021"
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/microcontrollers/2211610/

$629.11 per reel of 500 and out of stock. You are proving my point  :-//
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Offline josip

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #326 on: June 04, 2021, 08:17:25 am »
I didn't found in RP2040 datasheet, is there any way to protect firmware on external flash chip or / and secure SWD interface?
 

Offline exe

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #327 on: June 04, 2021, 12:49:33 pm »
I'm not an expert, but since rp2040 doesn't have non-volatile memory, this means it's hard to securely store decryption key. I see there is not even a unique serial key (https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/rp2040-dongle/issues/7).

It's an interesting challenge. I don't see a way how to do it.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #328 on: June 04, 2021, 04:26:10 pm »
I'm not an expert, but since rp2040 doesn't have non-volatile memory, this means it's hard to securely store decryption key. I see there is not even a unique serial key (https://github.com/OpenLightingProject/rp2040-dongle/issues/7).

Yep. The RPi foundation was clearly looking to lower cost as much as possible. Not having any form of NVM is a problem though. As you said, it can be used for storing keys, or for storing configuration bits.
Even a unique ID is an extra process step, and it adds cost.

Whereas this chip is certainly interesting, I still think (as I probably said earlier) it's not made for "professional" use. So we can't whine there is some important - for some use cases - feature missing. The RPi may release a more advanced MCU based on the same architecture later on. Don't know what their plans are.
 

Online NorthGuy

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #329 on: June 04, 2021, 07:05:28 pm »
I didn't found in RP2040 datasheet, is there any way to protect firmware on external flash chip or / and secure SWD interface?

If you only want the chip to be used by Open Source projects, you don't need firmware protection, do you?
 

Offline exe

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #330 on: June 04, 2021, 07:14:45 pm »
I guess some people are interested in closed-source projects and looking for a way to protect their IP :).

I personally would like it support for encryption and protection because that would widen the market for rpi mcus. Better sales can potentially make better pricing, better support, bigger community, etc.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #331 on: June 04, 2021, 08:03:48 pm »
I guess some people are interested in closed-source projects and looking for a way to protect their IP :).

I personally would like it support for encryption and protection because that would widen the market for rpi mcus. Better sales can potentially make better pricing, better support, bigger community, etc.

But there are literally thousands of MCUs on the market for this. Why insist on the RP2040 to be something it's not?
 

Offline exe

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #332 on: June 04, 2021, 08:31:34 pm »
I was talking about potential future MCUs from RPI.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #333 on: June 04, 2021, 09:55:38 pm »
$629.11 per reel of 500 and out of stock. You are proving my point  :-//

*$523 per reel of 500.

Its a preorder. Feel free to advertise something below cost as a preorder, let your customers order, and then change the price later. See how many get pissed off and won't order from you again.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #334 on: June 05, 2021, 03:54:34 pm »
$629.11 per reel of 500 and out of stock. You are proving my point  :-//

*$523 per reel of 500.

Its a preorder. Feel free to advertise something below cost as a preorder, let your customers order, and then change the price later. See how many get pissed off and won't order from you again.

Merchandise is not available so the price doesnt matter. You might want to read rs-online legalese

>The price for forward orders may be varied by RS after the date of order acceptance

aka its a fake price for a product that doesnt exist at this moment.

What we do learn from this is they are listing reels at above "single quantity prices". Do you want to buy a pallet full of CPU trays at retail single quantity prices?

So either single quantity price is a lie, there are/were only 40K chips send out by the pee foundations so they decide to turn this global shortage into a PR win, or rs-online is trying to gouge on forward orders omitting volume discounts.

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Offline chickenHeadKnob

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #335 on: June 07, 2021, 03:29:31 am »

aka its a fake price for a product that doesnt exist at this moment.

What we do learn from this is they are listing reels at above "single quantity prices". Do you want to buy a pallet full of CPU trays at retail single quantity prices?

So either single quantity price is a lie, there are/were only 40K chips send out by the pee foundations so they decide to turn this global shortage into a PR win, or rs-online is trying to gouge on forward orders omitting volume discounts.

Other possibilities exist. Like we badly misjudged how popular these will be so we will use the pre-orders to gauge how much fab space and time to buy for the next batches.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #336 on: June 07, 2021, 03:29:44 pm »
I was talking about potential future MCUs from RPI.

Yeah, so as I said in the post before, the RPi foundation may release MCUs with more features based on the same architecture, but I for one do not know anything about what their plans actually are.
Who knows if this chip is going to be the first and last of their MCUs, at least their ARM-based MCUs. Who knows if they are not going to switch to RISC-V for their next one. Who knows exactly what they are going to do next. Generally speaking, just don't expect the RPi to act as any commercial company - which they are definitely not.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #337 on: June 07, 2021, 07:00:34 pm »
don't expect the RPi to act as any commercial company - which they are definitely not.

I think their decisions are largely driven by sales (or demand), just like a commercial company. They can go RISC-V in their next MCU, but sticking to ARM makes more sense to me.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #338 on: June 07, 2021, 07:38:27 pm »
Other possibilities exist. Like we badly misjudged how popular these will be so we will use the pre-orders to gauge how much fab space and time to buy for the next batches.

there is no fab space to buy right now, some analyst claim there wont be for another 6-12 months, others predictions are even bleaker
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Offline gamalot

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #339 on: June 08, 2021, 08:10:09 am »
I ordered 20 pieces of RP2040 at PiAustralia at a unit price of 1.50 Australian dollars.

Finally, the 20 pieces of RP2040 I ordered from PiAustralia were delivered. I checked their website again, now they have the same limit of three pieces per order as another Raspberry Pi distributor in Australia (Core).

 
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Offline dave j

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Re: Raspberry Pi Pico
« Reply #340 on: June 25, 2021, 02:41:50 pm »
RP2040's have been added to JLCPCB's parts library. Announcement on the Raspberry Pi site.
I'm not David L Jones. Apparently I actually do have to point this out.
 
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