EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Microcontrollers => Topic started by: Simon on April 15, 2018, 08:14:56 am
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I'm just wondering. Is Microchip planning to continue AS or will it eventually move the IDE over to MPLABX ? I seem to remember that one of the drivers for Atmel versus Microchip was that Atmel used an open source C compiler whereas microchips compiler was very expensive (£1000+ comes to mind) or free code size limited crippleware.
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Yeah those websites are probably outdated.. no size limit for XC8, but no optimization either. (it's mikroe which does full optimization but very small size limit)
XC16 and 32 have no size limit and free optimization (-O1) available. methods were found in this forum to bypass the license check so you can use -O2 and -O3 but i wouldn't rely on "hacks" for commercial products.. And -O1 is enough. It gets rid of most of the garbage, with library functions it tends to use hardware tricks like the zero-overhead-loops for iterative operations.. and it's still easy to debug
Regarding to your question, I don't know if they will add licenses to AVR-GCC and the ATMEL-ARM-GCC.
Unfortunately for some (i don't really mind) i think their plan is to move everything to mplab x. latest versions have added initial support / menus for XPLAINED boards, mentions of other ATMEL stuff here and there.
One thing for sure, every time i have to open eclipse i thank the gods that microchip went the netbeans way.
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Well having tried and failed again to setup my custom header files location in Atmel studio (u$oft visual fuckover) I tried maplab. Yes there is initial support as in you can pick the AVR category for starting a new project but no AVR device is listed.
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Microchip have started adding support for ARM devices to MPLAB X, and the latest version of XC32 bundles both MIPS and ARM compilers. But there's plenty of vendor-neutral tools for ARM microcontrollers to choose from.
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Well I'm trying to use a tiny24a, back of the que I guess.
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but i wouldn't rely on "hacks" for commercial products
Its not rocket science or voodoo. The source code is available as required (xc16/xc32), and if you can read code there is no mystery what is happening. The compiled code is exactly the same as the 'paid' version. Exactly. Always. There can be many reasons to go for the paid version (priority support would be one), but to think that you are getting a more 'reliable' compiler in the paid version makes no sense. You don't even need to 'hack' any file to get all optimizations/enable c++.
I think the OP is not interested in xc16/xc32, so it doesn't matter anyway.
and the latest version of XC32 bundles both MIPS and ARM compilers
They have 2 ARM M4 crypto controllers- which seem to have no home, so they adopted them in mplabx for some reason. Maybe its a test run to see if they can make arm work in mplabx.
Whatever they do with AS/MPLABX, its not going to happen quickly. So unless you want to wait around for at least a few years, plan to use what is available now.
You can also look into the mchp 8bit parts (newer ones with pps are nice), then you can use MPLABX instead of AS. The xc8 compiler (not open source/gcc) in free mode is restricted in some optimizations, but it is not a big deal (at all). They have a $30 Curiosity board which can mount 8-20pin pics, includes a programmer/debugger, and works quite nicely. I guess it depends how attached you are to the tiny24. Just a thought.
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but i wouldn't rely on "hacks" for commercial products
Its not rocket science or voodoo. The source code is available as required (xc16/xc32), and if you can read code there is no mystery what is happening. The compiled code is exactly the same as the 'paid' version. Exactly. Always. There can be many reasons to go for the paid version (priority support would be one), but to think that you are getting a more 'reliable' compiler in the paid version makes no sense. You don't even need to 'hack' any file to get all optimizations/enable c++.
I think the OP is not interested in xc16/xc32, so it doesn't matter anyway.
and the latest version of XC32 bundles both MIPS and ARM compilers
They have 2 ARM M4 crypto controllers- which seem to have no home, so they adopted them in mplabx for some reason. Maybe its a test run to see if they can make arm work in mplabx.
Whatever they do with AS/MPLABX, its not going to happen quickly. So unless you want to wait around for at least a few years, plan to use what is available now.
You can also look into the mchp 8bit parts (newer ones with pps are nice), then you can use MPLABX instead of AS. The xc8 compiler (not open source/gcc) in free mode is restricted in some optimizations, but it is not a big deal (at all). They have a $30 Curiosity board which can mount 8-20pin pics, includes a programmer/debugger, and works quite nicely. I guess it depends how attached you are to the tiny24. Just a thought.
I agree with every word. I never thought for a second that hacked -O3 is different than paid -O3, it's just that an update could break the "hack" (see the quotes?) And you may find yourself to choose between updating and getting compiler bugs fixed or compiling the full version.
If you know how to compile the compiler good for your, i don't i suck at these things i like installers.
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I'm no IDE expert and am giving netbeans a go. Anything I need to do to make it work? It has picked up on the availability of GCC for AVR so will that do it ?
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uh.. netbeans is the platform MPLAB X is based on, just as for example NXP LPC Expresso is just eclipse with some fancy plugins
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Yes I know. I just needed to pick an IDE and set it up without any bullshit from any vendor. I have created a new thread specifically about my progress: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/going-bare-with-netbeans-and-writing-code-for-avr/new/#new (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/going-bare-with-netbeans-and-writing-code-for-avr/new/#new)
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great, i just wanted to be sure
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If you want a vendor independent IDE, I'd highly recommend Visual Studio Code. I'm a die-hard Emacs guy, but VSC is changing my mind quickly...
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If you want a vendor independent IDE, I'd highly recommend Visual Studio Code. I'm a die-hard Emacs guy, but VSC is changing my mind quickly...
OK, so how do I get it compiling for AVR ?
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I am looking at it with platformio installed. But there seems to be some confusion between AVR and Arduino
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I am looking at it with platformio installed. But there seems to be some confusion between AVR and Arduino
Other than most of the libraries being a bit bloated Arduino and AVR are effectively the same. Arduino just wraps some stuff up to be easier for beginners. Including assembly if you go with avr gcc.
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If you want a vendor independent IDE, I'd highly recommend Visual Studio Code. I'm a die-hard Emacs guy, but VSC is changing my mind quickly...
OK, so how do I get it compiling for AVR ?
Have not looked into it myself as I'm quite happy with Atmel Studio for now, but everything else I've needed in VSC has been available as a plugin with instructions for how to setup any external dependencies.
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I am looking at it with platformio installed. But there seems to be some confusion between AVR and Arduino
Other than most of the libraries being a bit bloated Arduino and AVR are effectively the same. Arduino just wraps some stuff up to be easier for beginners. Including assembly if you go with avr gcc.
Yes but I don't want to use arduino code style due to the bloat it will call in. platformio seems to try and mimic arduino and wants libraries putting into project folders whereas I want one standard folder on my machine so that when I update or improve or fix I don't have to do a round robbin.
I have returned to Atmel studio as I have figured out what I was getting wrong, I'll just have to see what happens when it is phased out.
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If you want a vendor independent IDE, I'd highly recommend Visual Studio Code. I'm a die-hard Emacs guy, but VSC is changing my mind quickly...
VSC drains battery quickly on mac. For that reason I have moved to UE.
Really? I have not noticed this at all and I'm on an MBP most of the day.
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It'd be stupid for them to kill off Atmel Studio. I think a fair amount of people are quite happy with it.
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If you want a vendor independent IDE, I'd highly recommend Visual Studio Code. I'm a die-hard Emacs guy, but VSC is changing my mind quickly...
VSC drains battery quickly on mac. For that reason I have moved to UE.
Really? I have not noticed this at all and I'm on an MBP most of the day.
When I use VSC (with default settings, no add'l plugins), my 12" toy MB holds ~7 hours. With UE, I don't know how long can it last since I never tested its battery life again, but it runs cooler.
Also, Intel Power Gadget shows VSC using more power.
Interesting. I certainly have not noticed that effect on my computer but I'll try measure the effects of it as well. If that is the case, that is something they need to fix...
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It'd be stupid for them to kill off Atmel Studio. I think a fair amount of people are quite happy with it.
That would make it likely for them to charge for it. Which is essentially killing it off.
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As of the toolchains ARM, AVR, PIC32 and PIC16 all uses GCC, so there is always compile-your-own route with license check patched out and base compiler rebased to the latest (I even have an AVR GCC version 7.2 for macOS archive, much newer than anything Microchip or Atmel ever packaged.)