MPLab 8.92 Nightmare

[jpanhalt]

Yesterday while printing code from a project MPLab froze up.  That happens occasionally.  My PC is Win 7. I just CTRL+ALT+Delete and force closure.  That works, and there haven't been problems in the past.   Yesterday, when opening MPLAB, I get a warning it is still running. When I shut the PC down, and restarted, that problem disappeared.

However, after opening any project and closing it, then closing MPLAB and trying to reopen MPLAB, I get the warning it is still running.  The MPLAB icon is not in the task bar, and task manager (CTRL+ALT+Delete) doesn't show anything running.  I have now uninstalled and reinstalled the entire program 4x with various manipulations.  I have downloaded it fresh from Microchip and reinstalled that version.  Still that same behavior happens.

If I ignore that warning, it seems to work normally, but I don't want to risk a screw up with a sick program.  Any ideas?

[ataradov]

Most likely there is a lock file that was not properly cleaned up. Look in the MPLAB directories and clean up suspicious files. Stuff in C:\User\<name> and may be temporary files. It might be some flag in the registry too, but I doubt it.

Also, there is no danger of any corruption, just an annoyance.

[mariush]

If you can't find the lock file , you can use Process Monitor from SysInternals Suite : https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon

Add a rule to reject everything except data coming from mplab.exe process. If you want, go in toolbar and uncheck everything but file operations.

Clear the log if there's something in it, then run mplab executable until you get the message and look in the log to see what files the executable has opened or checked for - you'll find that lock file in the list.  (look for CreateFile or OpenFile in the list)

[jpanhalt]

I opened the Microcip folder and manually removed everything.  Then from the setup.exe, I clicked on remove everything.  That seemed to go normally.  Rebooted the PC and reinstalled a fresh version again.  No errors on install, but behavior is the same.

I haven't tried rules setting, but was wondering whether installing MPLab in a different location might help. It is currently in C:\Program Files (x86); whereas Eagle (for example) is in its own folder.  If it is registry or failure to remove something that is really hidden, would that help?  (My admin. setting is supposed to allow me to see hidden and system files.)

[Ian.M]

MPLAB 8.xx was notorious for crashing while opening due to a corrupted workspace file auto-loading.   Delete the offending workspace (which was usually the last one used) from outside MPLAB, and it would be fine again though if it was associated with a project, you would need to recreate the workspace, or restore from backups if available.  It could also need the SetDefaultMPLABStartup.exe to be run which resets most registry based MPLAB settings to their 'out of the box' defaults.  N.B. the registry settings are global for all MPLAB 8 installs.

If you read the topics I contributed to over on the Microchip forums regarding corrupted workspaces, you'll find the mitigation strategies for IDE window management I found to reduce the risk of workspace corruption.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforum.microchip.com+%22ian.m%22+corrupted+workspace

[jpanhalt]

MPLAB 8.xx was notorious for crashing while opening due to a corrupted workspace file auto-loading.

Yes, I am well experienced with that behavior.  Usually, one of 2 things happens: 1) It just freezes, and after a short timeout, a message that MPLab has stopped responding appears.  I close and reopen. 2) It just crashes or freezes, and I need to go the CTRL/Alt/Delete route.  Close it and then reopen from a normal screen.  After either of those occurrences, MPLab seemed to work normally.  This is my first time with the incurable, except by cold reboot, message that the application is still running.

I suspected it might be something in the current project's workspace, so I opened a presumably good previous project and got the same results.  Just tried again, and got the same crazy behavior.

I appreciate your suggestions and link and will try them later.  Right now, I want to finish a working draft of a new routine and will tolerate that behavior, but it is definitely frustrating.  I should get back to repairing it over the weekend.

As an aside, I Usually use the 16F1829 for development of routines.  It seems robust and allows 3 hardware breakpoints.  On another project I switched to the PIC16F1789 for more pins that allowed easier routing.   That worked fine, until it didn't.  I started getting an ICD 3 programmer error that the chip returned a wrong ID.  After 2 months with very slow responses from Microchip and trying lots of things that didn't work, I changed the .jam file to an earlier version.  Worked great, until very recently (September, 2023).  I suspect ICD 3 automatically updated and will have to try that fix again.  BTW, there is an error in the .inc file for that chip that prevents assembly.  One of the SPI registers is misnamed.  That fix was easy.  All I did was add a define making wrong name = correct name.

[Mechatrommer]

if cannot detect in task manager... try installing "File Watcher" that logs existing/added/deleted files in your HDD before and after installation. take note added files including dll etc after installation and see if one of those files still exist in task manager after closing main app... kill on sight.. and try to reload... fwiw..

[coromonadalix]

you have some twaeks in windows to unload dll  etc .. faster

[jpanhalt]

I  have been doing fun stuff in the interim and decided today to do a few more tests with Task Manager. 

When I just start MPLab without opening a project. MPLab.exe*32 starts and disappears when the application is closed, but when I open an application and close, it does not disappear. (attachment)  That is the only process that differs from the early processes.

If I force it to end, then MPLab opens and closes normally unless I open a project.  Sounds like something in the workspace.  Any suggestions?  It is a little inconvenient to have to open Task Manager to actually close MPLab.  Now for the hooker. I have found that opening a folder on my desktop, deleting stuff in it, closing it, and then trying to delete that folder, I get an error that it cannot be deleted because it is open an another application.  After a cold boot, it is can be deleted. That makes me wonder about my Windows 7 installation.

Regards, John

EDIT: That latter behavior is not easily reproducible, so just focus on the MPLab issue until I figure out how to reproduce  the second behavior.  I have Acronis running in the background for the past 8 years, but never had that problem before.

[DavidAlfa]

How about simply rebooting the computer?

[jpanhalt]

Rebooting works, of course, but is a much bigger pain that going to task manager or just ignoring the annoyance.  Eventually, I hope to find the MPLab file or registry flag that is corrupted/wrong and replace or fix it, if I can.  Reinstalls don't do that.

[jpanhalt]

The plot thickens.  Initially I used CTRL+SHIFT+ESC  to close MPLab.  Then I ran into a related problem yesterday with a 32-bit 2D CAD program called Graphite.  I had open a few zipped files in a disposable folder and when done tried to delete the folder.  Windows 7 wouldn't do that as the file was "being used by another application."  Sure enough, Graphite hadn't closed.  It now seems as if every 32-bit and maybe some other applications are not closing.  It appears to be a Windows problem.  I became evident with MPLab as it is one of the few that won't allow more than one instance running.

I ran sfc/scannow and found no errors, but experience tells me Windows 7 and earlier are not very good at finding and correcting corrupted things and the usual cure is a clean install. Attached is the directory for what's on the C disk.  It's been a long time since I reinstalled Win 7.  Can I do a fresh install from its CD over it or do I need to format to get a good install?   

[alex_]

Too many IDEs for too many different projects, sometimes with incompatible toolchains / settings.

I now run them in separate VMs. They are sufficiently lightweight (especially legacy MPLAB) that this is no performance issue.
When things don't work as well as it should, apply a previous snapshot and resync (git...) your source files.

[DavidAlfa]

Mplab8 is very old so it may be a modern Windows permission problem, try running it as admin and see if it does any better.

[jpanhalt]

The problem seems to be affecting  all 32-bit programs and maybe some others.  At the end of the day. the task manager is full, yet no visible programs are open.  The attached snippet is a partial screen of task manager as I write this.  Compare that to the previous snippet.  Windows is just not closing programs (e.g., Chrome) and the solution seems to be a new install, but I don't want to lose what I have currently installed.

As I recall from 7 to 9 years ago, you can install a fresh version (i.e., not "repair" which never seems to work) without destroying non-windows stuff that is there.  Of course, I have the disks  and/or downloads on another drive for everything on my C drive.   I just want to save the pain for reloading everything.  However, my  memory is faded, and I am just not sure.

[jpanhalt]

So far, I have been hobbling along using Task Manager to close programs.  The problem only seems to affect 32-bit programs and Chrome.

On more reading, apparently there is a Windows utility called AutoEndTasks that is supposed to exist in the Registry.  It is missing from mine (i.e., regedit>HKEY_ USERS>DEFAULT>Control Panel>Desktop).  It can be added.  I am cautious about touching anything in the Registry.  What is likely to happen if I try to add it, and it doesn't work?   

John

[MarkF]

I have only used MPLAB X. 
Version 3.55 because the newer versions don't seem to play well with my Pickit 3.

Out of curiosity, why do you stay with MPLAB 8?

[jpanhalt]

My reasons are that: 1) My PC is Windows 7; 2) Several programs I use are not compatible with Windows 10; 3) I tried MPLabX twice early in its evolution and hated it; and 4) For as few chips that I actually program, want to avoid moving from my ICD3.   There are a few PIC24F's supported by both 8.92 and my ICD3.  Should I ever move out of the enhanced mid-line I will go all the way to the PIC24 and skip the 18F's.

I have a Windows 11 laptop to do the increasing number of things that require that, like taxes, zoom meetings with family, and 3D design (I am learning Autodesk 360 free) for my 3D printer.  I may even put MPLabX on it, but not this year.

One thing I can't stand is when something doesn't quite work right.  The problem with MPLab was only a presenting symptom.  Since then, I have found lots of applications that don't shut down, even Windows Notepad, Chrome, and Windows Live Mail fail to shut down.   They can run multiple instances without complaining.  MPLab 8.92 will also run but complains.  Multiple copies running slows things down and probably increases the risk of another lockup.

[MarkF]

I also am using Windows 7 with MPLAB X and a desktop Win XP (another reason I'm using version 3.55).
I mostly use pic18's with a couple pic16's.  I did use one pic32MX as a learning experiment along with old ECE-4760 lectures from Cornell Univ.  I've had no problems with the latest XC8 and XC32 compilers on Windows 7.  The 32-bit Win XP won't install the latest ones.

MPLAB X does list the ICD 3 as a programmer if that makes a difference.

I have a Windows 10 laptop but it's solely allocated to running my model railroad layout.

I also used Windows Live Mail up until this year when I switched to Thunderbird because of security requirements from my internet provider.

[NorthGuy]

Do you have Windows Defender enabled? If so, disable its process and reboot. May help.

[jpanhalt]

Windows Defender is not running.  I do have Windows Firewall running and medium security set.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Something I recall back when I was using 8.9x was it was useful is to configure it to not auto-load the past project at startup, avoiding a hard-to fix crash on startup.

I currently use MPLABX 6.00 under Win7, which is fine. 6.10 has issues with Win7.
Only problem I've seen is that MPLAB IPE 6.00 no longer supports programmer-to-go on Pickit3, for which I use MPLABX 4.15

[jpanhalt]

The MPLab problem was only the first symptom.  It seems to be generic and several 32-bit programs, including Chrome (not sure it is just 32bit), Eagle, Notepad do not close either.  Task Manager can show as many as a dozen Chrome instances at the end of the day.

My version of Win7 is the Pro 32/64 version.

I am getting more and more tempted to do the registry modification I mentioned on March 8 (Post #16 )

[DavidAlfa]

I can use MPLAB 8.92 in W12 x64 just fine.
This is not MPLAB nor 32-bit programs issue, fix your computer!

Run sfc and dism tools, ensure windows is fully updated...

[jpanhalt]

That's my conclusion too.  It's a Windows problem.  So, my questions now are:

1) What is the risk in installing "AutoEndTasks" as described in post #16.
2) Is there way to install Windows 7 clean (i.e., not "repair") without formatting the drive?  As I vaguely remember from about 9 years ago, a fresh install from a licensed disk can be done without erasing everything else on the C drive.

PS: I ran sfc and it found no errors,which in my experience is about as useful as installing Windows as a "repair."  That is, it doesn't fix many problems.

[MarkF]

With the issues you're having, I would think a re-format is in order.
I try to do a clean wipe and new install every 2 or 3 years.

One thing that I have done that you might want to consider is that
I divided my disk drive into two partitions.  I put all my data on the
second partition.  Therefore, I only need to re-install programs and
don't have to worry about backing up all my data files.  (Which I sync
with another computer.

Depending on how full your disk is, you might be able to create a second
partition and move your data before wiping your main partition.

[jpanhalt]

That's exactly what I do.  Data are in folders on D.  D & E are on a physically separate, RAID disk pair.  Backups are on E. Only programs and Desktop are on C.  It's still a huge inconvenience to re-install everything.  Some of those programs are very old (e.g., Photoshop and MS Office suite) and need to be re-authenticated by the source.  There is no reason that can't be done that I know of, but it is still a pain.  Desktop can be copied to another drive too. 

Can Windows 7 still get the condensed SP's?

John