Author Topic: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE  (Read 20368 times)

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Offline dannyf

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2016, 04:36:29 pm »
Quote
I then had finally the solution with  this informative  site
http://www.sinistercircuits.com/pickit3_clone01.php#ss_InternalPowerIDE

I like their "Bottom Line", :)

Spot on.
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2016, 05:41:53 pm »
Well that video pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with hardware debuggers in cross compiling tool chains. There's so much noise, hear say and folk lore around them because they are so darned unreliable. The multiple scenarios of successive rabbit holes that you encountered are very common indeed, and you can easily waste a day on it.

Let us hope that Microchip invest some energy in making their tools work more reliably and take regression testing more seriously. It has certainly become worse since the introduction of MPLAB X.

There was an occasion two years ago when they released a new version of MPLAB X which broke PK3 completely and some new DLLs were sneaked out to correct it.

Then there was a time when they broke the node locked licensing and compile times were excruciating.

I could go on, but their attention to detail in regression testing is pretty rotten.

To be fair, as I mentioned before, Microchip are not alone in creating a crappy user experience when it comes to hardware debuggers.
 

Offline hans

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2016, 08:03:02 pm »
Some ancient versions of PICKIT3 firmware only work with the also ancient MPLAB IDE (not MPLAB X).

You can download the older software packages from http://www.microchip.com/pagehandler/en_us/devtools/mplabxc/ and go to "Downloads Archive" tab.
On the bottom of the page you also have the "Stand Alone Programmer App v1.0" and "Programmer App v3.10".

Told you so O0
But actually didn't expect it to have such a major difference.

Nevertheless I agree with your video Dave. If you review the original rant video not much has changed. Yes there is an IPE, but no command-line programmer tool. Almost all other vendors have them.. (either OSS or closed) which is  useful for an automated QA procedure. I can only recall a pk2cmd Linux tool and a Pic32prog tool (only PIC32s obviously), but that means you miss out once you want to batch QA boards with a PIC24E.

MPLAB X is OK; I don't really like Java IDEs and especially dont like the bugs I have encountered with Netbeans (e.g. horrible code highlighting updating or constant 1 thread 100% load while editing), but in general it makes more sense to use. I also like that it's multi-platform. It leaves me free to switch from Windows to Mac to Ubuntu, which I already did.


I share the general experience with hardware debuggers. Other vendors have their problems too:

AVR - you can brick a device with 1 wrong fuse setting or 1 ISP clock setting (thus corrupting fuses). No way to recover it back unless you connect a dozen wires for HV Programming.
TI launchpad debugger - as mentioned earlier in this thread, this debugger was very buggy when connected through a hub. The overflow of traffic makes sense.
Olimex ARM JTAG with Jlink protocol clone for IAR - it worked.. but after closing a debug session you had to reenumerate the device in order for it to work again. It was a great programmer for the cost at the time.

I can't really see a generic solution, other than to buy the more expensive hardware versions. I read that J-Link EDU is not getting as much love anymore for the Cortex m7 chips, and obviously is not to be used for commercial products. OTOH paying 300$+ for a ICD3, ULINK or proper JLINK is not great. I can see why the STM32 discovery boards are popular. They basically give away the hardware for debugging + a neat board for testing some basic code. In my experience STLinkv2 always just worked. No unexplained settings or modes to mess up.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 08:05:10 pm by hans »
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2016, 08:09:15 pm »
Since we are on a roll here, do anyone know if it is possible to download releasenotes from Microchip as PDF?, they use the PDF icon, but only webpages...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 08:36:37 pm by neslekkim »
 

Offline jaromir

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2016, 09:51:09 pm »
I'm seeing a lot of failed downloads from Microchip as well....

Glad to know it wasn't just me.
I cut some footage that had dozens of failures.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2016, 10:03:57 pm »
OTOH paying 300$+ for a ICD3, ULINK or proper JLINK is not great.

An ICD3 costs $200,= and works great.

 

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2016, 10:14:16 pm »
Just for the record, MPLABX is so much better than MPLAB, I think they should be given some praise

I can't praise something I have not used yet.
David gave it some praise though.

Quote
but the rant energy should have been directed at how unusable a PICKIT is for medium to large projects!! really! 

Once again, I can't rant about something that I have not encountered.
This is a rant about the problem I had to hand.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2016, 07:09:49 am »
OTOH paying 300$+ for a ICD3, ULINK or proper JLINK is not great.

An ICD3 costs $200,= and works great.

I don't fully agree, although ICD3 is definitely better than PK3 and RealICE in reliability terms, I have still sat for hours with the POS trying to get it to work on the odd occasion. Without doubt having a second machine to try it out on is worthwhile.

The RealICE is almost as unreliable as the PK3.

One major irritation is that typically I like to have a Gold dev environment for products, one which has the OS and all dev tools at given versions that were used to build the firmware in a VM. Microchip don't support node locked licensing for their compilers in this scenario, you have to go to server based licensing, an unacceptable expense in my book.

What I have determined though is that if you build your code on a VM which has an extra dummy NIC that's never connected with a single fixed locally administered MAC address across all your dev environment VMs and register one of your compiler node-locked lives against it, you can use that for all your Gold environments.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2016, 07:33:32 am »
The only problem I have ever experienced ,was with the PK3. In the end it was caused by a low quality usb cable.
The red one that was supplied with the PK3. After replacing that cable, everything worked fine. Always.
Maybe it's because I'm using Linux.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2016, 08:06:21 am »
The only problem I have ever experienced ,was with the PK3. In the end it was caused by a low quality usb cable.
The red one that was supplied with the PK3. After replacing that cable, everything worked fine. Always.
Maybe it's because I'm using Linux.

Give it time, I am sure you won't be disappointed.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2016, 08:28:25 am »
Quote
Quote
auto-flash after a recompile,




Pickit2 does that - a great feature;

Pickit2 software autoimorts/updates the current (most recent) version of the hex (if that feature is selected). But you still have to either press the Program button on the PK2 (if program on Pickit2 Button feature is selected) or switch to the Pickit2 window and click on the program button.

If you use MPLAB as your IDE, the PK3 is integrated. You can set the PK3 to reflash the target device with the new hex after each successful build/compile of your code, automatically. This can be a pretty big time-saver for tweaking and tuning of firmware. You don't have to wait for the new build to complete to switch windows and start the flash and back for each iteration. Modify the code and hit F10, and MPLAB does the rest.


« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 08:41:49 am by KL27x »
 

Offline Karel

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2016, 08:31:15 am »
The only problem I have ever experienced ,was with the PK3. In the end it was caused by a low quality usb cable.
The red one that was supplied with the PK3. After replacing that cable, everything worked fine. Always.
Maybe it's because I'm using Linux.

Give it time, I am sure you won't be disappointed.

I have to admit, I replaced the PK3 with an ICD3 because it was way too slow.

 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2016, 08:49:57 am »
The only problem I have ever experienced ,was with the PK3. In the end it was caused by a low quality usb cable.
The red one that was supplied with the PK3. After replacing that cable, everything worked fine. Always.
Maybe it's because I'm using Linux.

Give it time, I am sure you won't be disappointed.

I have to admit, I replaced the PK3 with an ICD3 because it was way too slow.

It's definitely faster. But also useful is being able to use software breakpoints.
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2016, 09:21:57 am »
LOL at the MPLAB 8.92 installation. :-DD
 

Offline Karel

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2016, 11:26:10 am »
The only problem I have ever experienced ,was with the PK3. In the end it was caused by a low quality usb cable.
The red one that was supplied with the PK3. After replacing that cable, everything worked fine. Always.
Maybe it's because I'm using Linux.

Give it time, I am sure you won't be disappointed.

I have to admit, I replaced the PK3 with an ICD3 because it was way too slow.

It's definitely faster. But also useful is being able to use software breakpoints.

Most of my projects can't be halted and stepped through. So, I never use the debugger/breakpoints.
I use a serial port for debugging, just sending some messages about state of variables.
I also use some free gpio pins which I toggle at the beginning and the end of interrupt routines.


 

Offline dannyf

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2016, 12:01:25 pm »
". You can set the PK3 to reflash the target device with the new hex after each successful build/compile of your code, automatically. "

You can do that pickit2 as well. A great feature.
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Offline KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2016, 09:46:59 pm »
^ Details?
Is this done by the Pickit2 software? IDE? How do you get it to do this?

I wonder, there's a Pickit2 selection in my MPLAB IDE programmer list, but it's grayed out. Perhaps other versions have this feature?

Or do you use some kind of script/macro?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 09:54:31 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2016, 10:50:50 pm »
"Or do you use some kind of script/macro?"

Outside of the ide. Microchip provides, or provided, standalone programming software  for the pickit2. It watches a user specified hex file. Once the hex file is modified, the software reprograms the target automatically.
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Offline KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2016, 04:59:14 am »
Kewl, thanks.

I have used this software for a long time, and I never noticed the two huge buttons on the bottom right. They were just part of the scenery.

Now, I really have no reason to use PK3 for code development. PK2 or ICD3.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2016, 12:25:10 pm »
Glad that you liked it.

I have limited myself to just those microchip parts that can be programmed by Pickit2 -> their loss, not mind.

So far, I haven't had any desire to venture beyond that: for my limited PIC needs, they are more than sufficient.
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Offline ramin110

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2016, 08:09:28 am »
i just tested my pickit 3 with ipe v3.0 and everything works fines. i bought my pickit 3 from china and i think it's clone that's because it's working with no problem. :scared:



sorry for bad quality
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2016, 10:02:48 am »
Clone? Yeah, the "DEFAULT_PK3" is kind of a giveaway. But man, the art looks quite the same. FWIW, my genuine has a red circle with a white M and the plastic is translucent.

Two of my clones say "DEFAULT_PK3." One is Sure Electronics, which has a slightly different shape to the case, so I don't think that's the one. The other came with a different cover art that says "kit3" on it.

In terms of the parts and layout of the pcb, this clone appears to be the closest of mine to the genuine PK3. If you open yours, I wonder if the board will have an orange/black glass diode D6 in the upper left corner, and the ICSP header will be 0.1" pitch, and it will say "PICkit3" between the ICSP header and the tacswitch. (The real one has "Microchip" and "PICkit3" on the upper left corner of the pcb).

None of my PK3's, clone or genuine, ever managed to download firmware successfully in IPE, except one. And it took 4 connections. It downloaded the bootloader then failed to connect. Then it downloaded the RS and failed to connect. Then the AP, and fail. Then finally it worked, kinda, on the fourth connection. But the FW suite always showed as the original number until I updated it in 8. (It was my Sure Electronics clone, which has some other serious flaws). :)




« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 10:31:32 am by KL27x »
 


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