Pickit 5 - ICD5

[Fire Doger]

Somehow I stumbled across this link https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/PG164150
and this https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/DV164055

Didn't found any mention so I guess it's just released. 

[woofy]

Interesting. I'll probably get one to try when they are available.
However I have to say we have become so fed up with the reliability of the PICkit4's that we purchased an NSDSP-2-X from Northern Software. Its not only reliable its way faster than the PICKIT4 - so we bought a number of them. Fingers crossed the PICKIT5 will be better than the PICKIT4.

[jpanhalt]

@woofy,

Can that Northern Software programmer do hardware debugging with a Microchip development suite?  Related to that, is it just for burning in a finished hex file?

[woofy]

Never actually tried. We use them for low volume production programming (higher volume stuff is purchased pre-programmed).
I'm still using a pickit4 here for development (working from home).

Their website says they can
- Can program and debug most Microchip PIC® microcontrollers.

However you should probably contact them directly.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just ordered one of each. Will report.
My experience of ICD/Pickit 4 is they are significantly faster, and advantage over ICD4 over pickit 4 for just programming is way less than ICD3 vs. PICKit3.
Although it appears to have more protection, I've managed to kill one Pickit4 (vs many Pickit 3's & clones).
 

[JPortici]

Same experience as mike.
I deem the BLE+App to upload imaged wirelessly very interesting. Sometimes you can't have a bootloader. It could be that we get a PK5 to try pretty soon.
I wonder what's under the hood, did they use a polarfire for the ICD5 this time?

[mikeselectricstuff]

Same experience as mike.
I deem the BLE+App to upload imaged wirelessly very interesting. Sometimes you can't have a bootloader. It could be that we get a PK5 to try pretty soon.
I wonder what's under the hood, did they use a polarfire for the ICD5 this time?

I'd be happy if you could put  a .hex file on the SD card - the way Pickit 4 does programmer-to-go seems unnecessarily cumbersome
 

[JPortici]

answering my question: the ICD5 uses a microsemi FPGA, everything is built inhouse

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/aemDocuments/documents/DEV/ProductDocuments/UserGuides/MPLAB_ICD_5_In-Circuit_Debugger_Users_Guide_50003529.pdf

[mikeselectricstuff]

Pickit 5, compared with pickit 4.
Only immediately obvious differences are USBC connector and Bluetooth module.

[mikeselectricstuff]

ICD5 internals
Nothing too surprising, though having 3 connectors on different sides is a bit ugly
Ethernet (with PoE) is handy for anyone wanting isolation.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Ok so not going so well - Tried Pickit5 on a couple of projects that work fine with Pickit 4, but just geting "Transmission on endpoint 2 failed"
Tried the firmware recovery option in IPE, pickit5 now appears dead.
And now MPLABX IDE and IPE 6.1 just crash as soon as I plug the programmer in..

[mikeselectricstuff]

Same "Transmission on endpoint 2 failed" error with ICD5. Looks like a USB driver issue.

[mikeselectricstuff]

OK some progress...
Installed MPLABX 6.1 on a Win10 laptop. Connected ICD5 and it did a firmware update that I did not see happenning under Win7.
After this, ICD5 works on both Win7 and Win10 machines.
Also tried ethernet mode, which works nicely, though I could only get to to work when powered by PoE - seems like it should be possible to use USB power but I couldn't get this to work

Managed to recover PICkit5 after a few attempts, and got it working on Win10
Still getting "transmission failed on endpoint 2" on Win7. Currently installing MPLAB 6.10 on another laptop to see if issues is Win7 or just my PC.

[jc101]

The ICD5 looks interesting, I like the idea of PoE, quite handy for me that.

[SiliconWizard]

Too bad MPLAB has become a disaster.

[woofy]

@mikeselectricstuff

If you get the pickit5 going, I'd be interested in how the programming speed compares with the pickit4.
I suspect identical.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Too bad MPLAB has become a disaster.

in what way?

[JPortici]

Too bad MPLAB has become a disaster.

in what way?

it doesn't have that vintage VB6 feeling?
it doesn't lack of most IDE features from this past two decades?
it IS a disaster to work with if you're using assembly exclusively, but that's it

[zzattack]

death of mpasm was a tough one to swallow

[mikeselectricstuff]

Microchip's response

If you are using a Windows 7 machine, I would recommend using 3rd Gen tools (MPLAB PICkit 3 and MPLAB ICD 3).

Running MPLAB ICD 5 on a Windows 7 is neither tested nor supported. It may cause incorrect driver updates and brick the unit, beyond repair.

Disappointing as everything else works. And if it can brick hardware then that's just piss-poor design.

[IDEngineer]

Many professionals, including me, still run Win7 due to its rock-solid reliability and stability. Microchip needs to insure compatibility with Win7, period. There's just too many people out there who run it.

[jpanhalt]

@IDEngneer
While that is true, Microchip ignored similar pleas to keep MPASM alive and allow users to add to chips to MPLAB IDE.

[IDEngineer]

Then this is a great opportunity for them to learn from past mistakes!

[JPortici]

@IDEngneer
While that is true, Microchip ignored similar pleas to keep MPASM alive and allow users to add to chips to MPLAB IDE.

it was not possible to get to a 64bit executable of MPASM without a complete rewrite. We've been through this many times.
At that point they had no incentive to do so as they had a currently mantained assembler used by the compiler, and a legacy assembler. They had two and dropped the old one. Makes sense.
It's not like they forbid you to have different versions of the tool installed at the same time.
and ALL past versions are currently available through the microchip download archives.

Many professionals, including me, still run Win7 due to its rock-solid reliability and stability. Microchip needs to insure compatibility with Win7, period. There's just too many people out there who run it.

see above regarding the possibility to use older versions of the tools.

i don't miss win7. One week after being forced to use it at work i was smiling because how better it was at many little things.
i don't miss PK3, PKOB or even the ICD3. And there were a number of people reporting that 3rd gen tools didn't work anymore under linux since 6.00, some even earlier (who knows what internal library had changed that broke it)

Then this is a great opportunity for them to learn from past mistakes!

From what I know, one of their biggest customers still use some ancient parts with MPLAB 8 and MPASM. If their biggest customers are unable to change microchip's mind it's either not a problem, or actually not a mistake

[mikeselectricstuff]

They suggested sticking to pickit3/icd3 for win7.
Ime pk4/icd4 work fine, and are significantly preferable as they don't need fw updates when switching device families.
It is good that they do still support icd3 on mplab8, via
The driver switcher,though it can be a mighty faff in practice.