PicKIT3 confusion

[dmlandrum]

So I've decided I want to get into some microcontroller stuff, just for fun more than anything, and I'm ready to pick up a PicKIT3, since I'd like to play with dsPICs eventually. I'm confused, though, on just what I should buy. They advertise the "debugger only" unit as also being a programmer, but then they have other bundles with dev boards that they advertise as "everything you need."

So what do I actually need?

On the AVR side, I can get a programmer from Sparkfun for $15 and be up and running pretty quickly. Why can't PIC be just as easy?

[deephaven]

So I've decided I want to get into some microcontroller stuff, just for fun more than anything, and I'm ready to pick up a PicKIT3, since I'd like to play with dsPICs eventually. I'm confused, though, on just what I should buy. They advertise the "debugger only" unit as also being a programmer, but then they have other bundles with dev boards that they advertise as "everything you need."

So what do I actually need?

On the AVR side, I can get a programmer from Sparkfun for $15 and be up and running pretty quickly. Why can't PIC be just as easy?

If you're going to be making your own board with a micro on it, then you just need the PicKit3. This has a  6 way socket on it, so you just provide 6 way (actually you only need 5 of the ways) pin strip connector on your board. With just that you debug and single-step your program on the pic, or download the program so that it can run stand-alone on your board. The 'extras' in the other packages are just for when you don't want to make your own hardware and it gives you a 'ready to run' processor.

[dmlandrum]

I was going to put the PICs in my breadboard and just run the lines out to it as necessary. So the "debugger" is all I need, then? Thank you!

[deephaven]

I was going to put the PICs in my breadboard and just run the lines out to it as necessary. So the "debugger" is all I need, then? Thank you!

Yes, that's it. Here's the manual: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/PICkit_3_User_Guide_51795A.pdf

Page 15 shows the connections you need, it uses the MCLR and 2 other pins to talk to the pic + VDD, VSS.

[dmlandrum]

Thank you for the help! Any additional cables I should think about getting while I'm at it?

[Strube09]

DMLANDRUM,

The pickit3 will program and debug... But the micro you are using has to have the Debug software built into it in order to do the debug. If it does not have the debug hardward in the uC then you will have to buy a header board for it to debug (but it will still program without it). They do this to keep the cheap micros really cheap and not have to put the debug on the silicon when you are mass producing.

The pickit3 product page has an app note that shows a list of header boards that you need if you are not using a micro with it built in. The advantage to the more expensive programmers/debuggers from Microchip is that you don't need any headers for any micros as it is all built into the debugger tool.

I hope this helps and isn't just confusing.
Strube

[EEVblog]

So I've decided I want to get into some microcontroller stuff, just for fun more than anything, and I'm ready to pick up a PicKIT3, since I'd like to play with dsPICs eventually. I'm confused, though, on just what I should buy. They advertise the "debugger only" unit as also being a programmer, but then they have other bundles with dev boards that they advertise as "everything you need."

So what do I actually need?

On the AVR side, I can get a programmer from Sparkfun for $15 and be up and running pretty quickly. Why can't PIC be just as easy?

PIC is just as easy. The PICkit3 is all you need. It in includes debugger support, it's already built into the PICkit3 and MPLAB, unlike the AVR ISP which is just a programmer.

Dave.

[monpjc]

As Dave says - they are easy to use.

If you still a little uncertain you can try the MicroStick that Microchip have put out:

See Here http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en548414

This has the debugging hardware on the stick (cut doen PICKit3) and comes with a dsPIC33F and a PIC24H. The underside will plug into your bread board and then you only need the supplied USB cable to talk to it and program it via MPLAB. Its cheaper then the PICKit3 on its own and gives you a starting point. If you then want to do more or program other chips then you can then invest in the PICKit3.

[monpjc]

My understanding is that Microchip WILL NOT include these, there was talk about it but as of the last Forum I went to last year, thay said it was not going to be included.

[monpjc]

My understanding is that Microchip WILL NOT include these, there was talk about it but as of the last Forum I went to last year, thay said it was not going to be included.

This information has now changed - As of MPLAB X Beta 5 the PICKit2 is supported.

Great news for lots of people - lets hope that the PICKit3 one days has all the feature of the PICKit2 - before its dropped forever.....

[Leo Bodnar]

If you want just to play with dsPICs then get the cheapest dsPIC demo board.  You will be running the code in 2 minutes.

[Mechatrommer]

which one is cheaper? the dsPIC with demo board? or the dsPIC chip alone?
and 2 minutes what? if 2 minutes coding, debugging and uploading, thats pretty fast! but if 2 minutes only to upload, thats pretty damned slow!

[Leo Bodnar]

which one is cheaper? the dsPIC with demo board? or the dsPIC chip alone?
and 2 minutes what? if 2 minutes coding, debugging and uploading, thats pretty fast! but if 2 minutes only to upload, thats pretty damned slow!

What I meant is to get the cheapest demo board with dsPIC on it soldered or as a plugin processor module.
Microchip has a lot of precompiled demos with source code for their demo boards so you literally be running it in 2 minutes if you have MPLAB installed and framework downloaded.
Actually the boards come with the code programmed.

Then you can tweak the code and start from there.

It takes away the pain of starting from scratch both on hardware and software side.  If you put together the hardware and software yourself and the first thing it does is nothing then you don't know whether your Vcore decoupling has too high ESR or your CONFIG registers have wrong values or PLL does not work or your code is dud (e.g. exception by reading a byte from an odd address), or you have picked up PGD/PGC pair that doesn't work (it's in errata but have you noticed?), etc.

I know Dave said that it's good when things don't work but it could be a pretty daunting start and may just put you off for a long time.
Of course if you are working with PICs all the time then at least you have an idea how to start from scratch.

Sure, initial cost is higher than bare chip but you can always resell or gift the demo board as it is not overpriced and pretty much retains the value.

I am just pointing out an option, not enforcing it on anyone.

I would recommend Explorer 16.  100 pin version comes with two plug-in processor modules - PIC24 and dsPIC33 and has tonnes of plugin accessories (wireless, Enet, displays, sensors, etc) if you keep it.  44 pin needs a dsPIC33 plug-in module separately.

[DrGeoff]

It takes away the pain of starting from scratch both on hardware and software side.  If you put together the hardware and software yourself and the first thing it does is nothing then you don't know whether your Vcore decoupling has too high ESR or your CONFIG registers have wrong values or PLL does not work or your code is dud (e.g. exception by reading a byte from an odd address), or you have picked up PGD/PGC pair that doesn't work (it's in errata but have you noticed?), etc.

Wimp-out!
If you don't design it, layout the PCB and debug it right from the start then you've missed out all the best bits!

[A-sic Enginerd]

which one is cheaper? the dsPIC with demo board? or the dsPIC chip alone?
and 2 minutes what? if 2 minutes coding, debugging and uploading, thats pretty fast! but if 2 minutes only to upload, thats pretty damned slow!

What I meant is to get the cheapest demo board with dsPIC on it soldered or as a plugin processor module.
Microchip has a lot of precompiled demos with source code for their demo boards so you literally be running it in 2 minutes if you have MPLAB installed and framework downloaded.
Actually the boards come with the code programmed.

Then you can tweak the code and start from there.

It takes away the pain of starting from scratch both on hardware and software side.  If you put together the hardware and software yourself and the first thing it does is nothing then you don't know whether your Vcore decoupling has too high ESR or your CONFIG registers have wrong values or PLL does not work or your code is dud (e.g. exception by reading a byte from an odd address), or you have picked up PGD/PGC pair that doesn't work (it's in errata but have you noticed?), etc.

I know Dave said that it's good when things don't work but it could be a pretty daunting start and may just put you off for a long time.
Of course if you are working with PICs all the time then at least you have an idea how to start from scratch.

Sure, initial cost is higher than bare chip but you can always resell or gift the demo board as it is not overpriced and pretty much retains the value.

I am just pointing out an option, not enforcing it on anyone.

I would recommend Explorer 16.  100 pin version comes with two plug-in processor modules - PIC24 and dsPIC33 and has tonnes of plugin accessories (wireless, Enet, displays, sensors, etc) if you keep it.  44 pin needs a dsPIC33 plug-in module separately.

Excellent advise. I took this same path myself. I'm an experienced engineer, just not in this specific area. When I started looking at PICs for some home projects this is the route I went. Glad I did. It flattens the learning curve a bit. Allows you to minimize your variables when you need to break out the defibrillator to get your project up and breathing on life support. Think I'll actually be keeping my demo board for those times when I want to just toss something together to do a quick sanity check on an idea. Money well spent.