Author Topic: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?  (Read 20887 times)

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Offline zapta

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Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« on: January 07, 2014, 04:58:16 pm »
I want to ICSP AVRs (e.g. ATMEGA328P) so I found in a drawer an old AVRISP MKII, upgraded it firmware, installed AVR Studio and was able to read fuses, read theFLASH, etc (haven't tried yet to program, waiting for a cheap board to try on). So far, so good. 

The problem is that AVR Studio is monstrous and I need only the programming tool.

Is there a way to instal only the programming tool? Any other programming tool that works with AVRISP MKII?

I have strong preference to GUI over command line.  Having a tool that works on Mac OSX is a plus but Windows is also good.

Thanks,
Z.
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Offline madworm

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 05:16:17 pm »
avrdude (command line) + gui tool (winblows)
 

Offline filip_cro

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 05:40:18 pm »
AVRDude + Eclipse
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 06:02:14 pm »
avrdude (command line) + gui tool (winblows)

Any recomendation for a gui tool?
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 06:04:03 pm »
AVRDude + Eclipse

Does eclipse supports AVR development (other than the programming aspects)? Is it stable? Friendly?

(I am familiar with Eclipse in general, used it professionaly for Java programming).
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Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 07:08:35 pm »
The problem is that AVR Studio is monstrous
huh? now you are considering Eclipse? whats wrong with AVRStudio4?
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 07:34:14 pm »
The problem is that AVR Studio is monstrous
huh? now you are considering Eclipse? whats wrong with AVRStudio4?

I think the one I installed was Avr Studio 6 (?). It was a ~700MB or so, took long time to install (including all kind of Microsoft stuff) and when I open it I get a huge menu, just to select a the programming option that pops ups a modal window with the programming GUI. 

As for eclipse, it is already installed on my Mac for Java development so adding a plugin should be simple, though I would prefer a stand alone programming gui.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 07:44:55 pm »
You may want to see if avrisp mk2 is supported by AS5/6.

I use code::blocks + avrdudess as a gui to program the chip. Very happy with that set-up.
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Offline filip_cro

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2014, 10:17:29 pm »
AVRDude + Eclipse

Does eclipse supports AVR development (other than the programming aspects)? Is it stable? Friendly?

It's just Eclipse with avr gcc and avrdude.
 

Offline psycho0815

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 12:28:19 pm »


I use code::blocks + avrdudess as a gui to program the chip. Very happy with that set-up.

I second that. You can include custom tools in code::blocks quite easily for one click programming. Or use a makefile ,there a lots of templates on the web.
If you like, check out my blog (german):
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 04:57:51 pm »
You may want to see if avrisp mk2 is supported by AS5/6.

I use code::blocks + avrdudess as a gui to program the chip. Very happy with that set-up.

Thanks. I managed to run avrdudess on my Mac. Looks nice. Will try to actually connect it to the MKii and program.  If it will work, this is what I was looking form.
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Offline paf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 08:59:54 pm »
For embedded development on OSX, one can first install Xcode (including the command line utilities) and then MacPorts:
http://www.macports.org

MacPorts is a (FreeBSD ports-like)  package manager with lots of tools available for download.

After that, searching for avr one just needs to do on the command line:

port search avr

And the result is:

avarice @2.13_1 (cross)
    AVR JTAG-ICE control software

avr-binutils @2.24 (cross, devel)
    FSF Binutils for avr cross development

avr-gcc @4.8.2 (cross, devel)
    The GNU compiler collection for avr

avr-gdb @7.6.1 (cross)
    GDB for the AVR processors

avr-libc @1.8.0 (cross)
    C library for the AVR microcontroller.

avrdude @6.0.1 (cross, devel)
    an Atmel AVR MCU programmer

simulavr @1.0.0_2 (emulators, devel)
    Simulator for Atmel AVR microcontrollers

uisp @20050207 (devel)
    AVR In-System Programmer


After that, to install avrdude (for instance) the command is only:

sudo port install avrdude

Warning: some embedded development tools like sdcc and gputils are not in the cross category of MacPorts.

After that, you are in command line paradise.

If you want something more "Graphical" check  http://embedxcode.weebly.com  (Embedded development with Xcode as IDE).


My best regards
paf
 

Offline Erwin Ried

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 03:07:32 am »
I use khazama programmer :P with an $4 USD avrasp from ebay

http://khazama.com/project/programmer/ 
My website: http://ried.cl
 

Offline abhishekavr

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 04:40:38 pm »
Use ponyprog.
Tad simple !
and works like a charm.
You might need to configure the ponyprog a bit.
You can read more here http://microcontrolleravr.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/making-your-own-programmer-board/
 

Offline filip_cro

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 04:56:09 pm »
LOL. At least buy 3$ USBASP.
 

Offline Kappes Buur

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2014, 07:14:26 am »
Use an Arduino  :)

http://michael.holachek.com/2012/09/avr-programming/

There are so many YouTube tutorials on programming AVRs, for example:
Dennis Miller for using Atmel Studio
Ben Heck for programming AVRs
NEWBIEHACK for all kind of Arduino related stuff
mjlorton for lots of arduino and other stuff
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2014, 02:40:39 pm »
Quote
LOL. At least buy 3$ USBASP.

2nd that. You could build one for more, of course.
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2014, 03:59:30 am »
Thanks everybody for the information. I found a combination that works for me on Windows:

1. Atmel USB drivers extracted from Atmel Studio 6  (AtmelUSB.exe, 14,068kb)
2. Libusb-win32-bin-1.2.6.0.zip (adding a filter for ISP MKII)
3. setup-AVRDUDESS-2.2.exe  (it includes avrdude).

Small footprint, clean UI and works smoothly.
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Offline old gregg

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2014, 11:52:32 am »
same thing for me. I installed AVR studio and I realised how massive I was. The folder in my document is 1.4G !  :o took ages to install as well with all the microsoft softwares. Nightmare. Don't understand why it has to be so huge.

By the way, for those you have issue with avrdude and Arduino (the "get_synth 500 error" or something like this). I managed to make it work good, don't know why though.

I change the programmer for "arduino" (-c arduino) and the baudrate (-b 115200) and the arduino is back on work with avrdude. Those values were on a webpage .

I switched to WinAvr with programmer notepad . I used to wath great newbiehack videos so it should work fine. But now I'm fighting to know how to connect (and make it work) with my new AVRspi MK2 programmer.


 
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2014, 12:16:05 pm »
avrdudess
Nice pun, hopefully no one finds it a little sexist... :P
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2014, 12:21:55 pm »
The 6.0 and later AS has lots of ARM-related stuff in it. Use 5.x instead.
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Offline Psi

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2014, 12:30:13 pm »
I've had issues with USBasp semi-bricking AVRs

After finishing code development using USBasp (100s of flashes on one mcu without issue) i started to assemble and flash more units and 4 out of 25 ATMega165v stopped accepting SPI reprogramming and started running at 1/2 speed after their first ever flash failed.

It must have corrupted some undocumented fuse bit or something, since 4mhz RC osc isnt an official option on that mcu, they definitely ran at 4mhz instead of 8mhz afterwards.
Corrupt RC osc calibration byte maybe?

My problems with the USBasp may have been just a bad unit, but yeah, i don't trust it.
A stable software based USB stack on a 8bit mcu maybe pushing things a bit too much.
For now i will stick to the LPT programmer method which has always worked perfectly.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 12:32:40 pm by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline Phroon

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2014, 01:20:34 am »
Having a tool that works on Mac OSX is a plus but Windows is also good.

If you are looking for a Mac toolchain take a look at Crosspack.  It's a nice package of avr-gcc, avrdude and tons of other AVR tools.

It's command line and Makefiles though, so there would be a bit of a learning curve for you.
 

Offline jadew

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2014, 10:42:24 pm »
I've been getting by just fine with avrdude + notepad++. Having to write your own makefiles has a lot of benefits (first and foremost, you learn more).

Now... AVRs are not particularly complex devices so remembering the few include files and the names of a few registers (which you'll know anyway from the datasheet, since that will always be open) is not such a big deal.
 

Offline corrado33

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2014, 04:22:14 am »
I actually really like AVRSTudio. It's great for beginners and troubleshooting as you can step through your program and see register's change in uh "stepped time?" (This feature has helped me tremendously when I was starting out.) The size doesn't bother me too much, 1.5 Gigs is nothing in today's world of 3 TB hard drives for $100.

With that said, if I'm ever on the mac or linux box I just use avrdude. I don't know what else you guys were mentioning, I always thought avrdude was a standalone command line tool but who knows...
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2014, 02:04:44 am »
...With that said, if I'm ever on the mac or linux box I just use avrdude. I don't know what else you guys were mentioning, I always thought avrdude was a standalone command line tool but who knows...

Averdudes is a gui frontend for averdude.

https://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/02/19/avrdudess-a-gui-for-avrdude/
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2014, 02:38:57 am »
Studio 6 is bloated. But look on the bright siode, it could be worse... it could be Apple iTunes (bloatware with bonus crapware, idiotic, unintuitive and downright annoying).

If you are using GCC and are using an antiquated PC, try 4.81. Works OK for me except annoyances like switching between two projects and the Studio remembers the last hex file, so it is easy to program in the wrong hex file. Other than that it works reasonably well.

If you are using a great compiler like CodeVision AVR, it will only integrate properly with the bloated AVR Studio 6.1 or higher.
 

Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2014, 11:22:15 pm »
avrdudess
Nice pun, hopefully no one finds it a little sexist... :P

that was not a pun or typo but 100% accurate. its well known ladies prefer gui and must suffer bloat as a result. dudes use cmd line interface. seriously, more reliable and easier in the long run with batch files dressed up as desktop icons for the kiddies.

not to mention 1000 times more efficient in terms of pc resources and speed. literally.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2014, 02:49:49 am »
[that was not a pun or typo but 100% accurate. its well known ladies prefer gui and must suffer bloat as a result. dudes use cmd line interface. seriously, more reliable and easier in the long run with batch files dressed up as desktop icons for the kiddies.

I don't mind command lines if they come with a good GUI front-end  ;-)
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Offline amyk

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2014, 02:05:05 pm »
avrdudess
Nice pun, hopefully no one finds it a little sexist... :P

that was not a pun or typo but 100% accurate. its well known ladies prefer gui and must suffer bloat as a result. dudes use cmd line interface. seriously, more reliable and easier in the long run with batch files dressed up as desktop icons for the kiddies.

not to mention 1000 times more efficient in terms of pc resources and speed. literally.
Actually... I use AVRDUDE and I'm not a dude :-DD
 

Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2014, 09:40:20 pm »
wonderful, its always great to see people break free from gender stereotypes. well... maybe does depend on which direction you cross over... like i said cmd line is more productive and less bricked avrs. some leave the gui fold for cmd line but few go back the other way.

True, but a CPU second not used is lost forever.

technically computation requires heat and heat is the enemy of long life. running gui intensive apps or heavy crunching my fan runs continuously. debug cycling with text editor, winavr, avrasm, and downloading it stops after the first minute and stays off. thankfully i spend 99% of my time in that latter mode. easier on not only the fan but the cpu too.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 09:43:52 pm by paulie »
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2014, 09:46:48 pm »
Quote
like i said cmd line is more productive and less bricked avrs.

Yeah, right, :)

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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2014, 10:20:46 pm »
sorry mam  ;), but that happens to be true. as teaching assistant and member of two ham clubs ive had the opportunity last couple years to set up nearly 300 individuals for avr programming. before i adopted the cmd line batch file approach bricking chips was pretty much a daily occurrence. now once a week or month is unusual. as far as productivity one can compile or assemble with a single keystroke instead of drawing down menus and clicking yourself to death. there is a reason they are called "shortcut" keys.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2014, 10:38:56 pm »
I'm using make, avrdude and avr-gcc:
- "make" to compile
- "make upload" to flash
- "make fuses" to set fuses

I don't even have to click anything  >:D
 

Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2014, 10:49:32 pm »
hi markus, thanks again for your help with that lcr tester.

i have a suggestion: instead of "make", "make upload", "make fuses" try 'm', 'u', and 'f' for less wear and tear on those little pinkies. i got another one: except for fuse put "-F" in all the commands. saved me a huge amount of time babysitting students who were confused by dudes overly protective signature check.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2014, 12:06:49 am »
Quote
that happens to be true.

I have no doubt that that is true for you.

It would be unwise to generalize it to others.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2014, 08:05:36 pm »
i think its ok to say you dont "like" to do things a certain way or its not to everyones "taste". but an efficiency expert standing there with stop watch and poking through the trash bin might be in a position to do just that.... generalize. it turns out efficiency and waste are quite easy to quantize... just not very popular.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2014, 08:27:38 pm »
Quote
but an efficiency expert standing there with stop watch and poking through the trash bin might be in a position to do just that.... generalize.

Sure. Presummably that it is well established that:

1) this "efficiency expert" is really what he said he is, and
2) he has studied enough of the subjects, and
3) his conclusion is applied to this group of subjects or like subjects, not some totally different subjects, and
...

The risk to generalization is that people don't always remember the caveats that made the generalization possible.
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2014, 08:35:49 pm »
i think its ok to say you dont "like" to do things a certain way or its not to everyones "taste". but an efficiency expert standing there with stop watch and poking through the trash bin might be in a position to do just that.... generalize. it turns out efficiency and waste are quite easy to quantize... just not very popular.

I would bet 10 to 1 that your efficiency expert will use GUI tools like Excel and not command line tools. 

Just saying...  ;-)

GUI programs are sometimes useful.

(I am a heavy bash + vi + linux user so no bias here)
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2014, 10:39:27 pm »
GUI programs are sometimes useful.

absolutely. imagine trying to layout a pcb or edit video with cmd line. however imo things like compiling and flashing are best done with a single key rather than playing with mouse and pretty icons. but then i tend to be goal oriented and usually need to get things done asap. when it comes to fun have other outlets. to each his own.
 

Offline scientist

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2014, 03:52:17 am »
avrdudess
Nice pun, hopefully no one finds it a little sexist... :P

that was not a pun or typo but 100% accurate. its well known ladies prefer gui and must suffer bloat as a result. dudes use cmd line interface. seriously, more reliable and easier in the long run with batch files dressed up as desktop icons for the kiddies.

not to mention 1000 times more efficient in terms of pc resources and speed. literally.
Actually... I use AVRDUDE and I'm not a dude :-DD

Is avrdude basically just avr-dude? or does "dude" stand for something other than "agent"?
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2014, 04:19:02 am »
Actually... I use AVRDUDE and I'm not a dude :-DD

Or maybe you are ;-)

According to wikipedia "the word can encompass all genders".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2014, 04:16:25 pm »
Is avrdude basically just avr-dude? or does "dude" stand for something other than "agent"?

AVRDUDE - AVR Downloader/UploaDEr

( http://www.nongnu.org/avrdude/ )
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Offline DomesticHacks

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2014, 04:26:08 pm »
I use AVRDUDESS which is in my opinion the best GUI for AVRDUDE:
http://blog.zakkemble.co.uk/avrdudess-a-gui-for-avrdude/

It's written in .net so it should run under OSX (with mono).
Interesting projects, tipps and tricks (in German).
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2014, 05:23:35 pm »
I use AVRDUDESS which is in my opinion the best GUI for AVRDUDE:
http://blog.zakkemble.co.uk/avrdudess-a-gui-for-avrdude/

It's written in .net so it should run under OSX (with mono).


Did you have success running on OSX? Did not work for me but works very well on Windows 7.

BTW, is there a way to persist the programmer selection? I need to select it from a long list each time I start AVRDUDES.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2014, 07:06:09 pm »
lol... i wont say it.
 

Offline vvanders

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2014, 02:14:13 am »
GUI programs are sometimes useful.

absolutely. imagine trying to layout a pcb or edit video with cmd line. however imo things like compiling and flashing are best done with a single key rather than playing with mouse and pretty icons. but then i tend to be goal oriented and usually need to get things done asap. when it comes to fun have other outlets. to each his own.
I'm not really understanding all of the AVRStudio hate here. VS is a very solid and industry standard IDE. I don't spend any time using the pretty icons or mouse(use the shortcuts!). If you enjoy vi text navigation then there's a very well done vi plugin. I spend most of my time at work in vi but given the choice I'd take VisualStudio over Eclipse or command line.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2014, 03:29:33 am »
I'm not really understanding all of the AVRStudio hate here. VS is a very solid and industry standard IDE. I don't spend any time using the pretty icons or mouse(use the shortcuts!). If you enjoy vi text navigation then there's a very well done vi plugin. I spend most of my time at work in vi but given the choice I'd take VisualStudio over Eclipse or command line.

Hate is a strong word.  I just want a program to program avrs from hex file but with avr studio I need to install tons of stuff and then rib a over crowded window just to lunch the programmer. That's a clear case of bloatware. Why don't the provide the avrisp mk2 software as a separate program?

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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2014, 08:44:40 pm »
actually they do. last count there were 3 separate utilities which were the foundation upon which these monstrous graphics shells depend. iirc one is called avrisp.exe or similar. it took several hours to locate it buried in as4 and that was with online help. i shudder to think what it would take to dig those out of as6 which is an order of magnitude bigger. oh yeah... no drawback to bloated dev environments.

for me avrdude does the trick when forced to work in protected mode but 99% of my programming is done from real mode (dos98) using a turboc utility i wrote years ago.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2014, 09:18:05 pm »
actually they do. last count there were 3 separate utilities which were the foundation upon which these monstrous graphics shells depend. iirc one is called avrisp.exe or similar. it took several hours to locate it buried in as4 and that was with online help. i shudder to think what it would take to dig those out of as6 which is an order of magnitude bigger. oh yeah... no drawback to bloated dev environments.

for me avrdude does the trick when forced to work in protected mode but 99% of my programming is done from real mode (dos98) using a turboc utility i wrote years ago.

Do you remember avrisp.exe was a file on its own after you installed AVR studio?

I have a nice Acronis utility that allows to restore disk state to a prior point. If it is a file by itself, I can installed everything again (already did twice), locate the file and restore my disk.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2014, 09:29:03 pm »
yes, all 3 exe files including avrisp(sp?) worked outside the environment. i have no idea where they are located on your disk. as i said it took me hours to find it on my own hard drive. why are you avoiding the obvious solution, avrdude.exe, which is used by 99.9% of avr programmers and is available from literally hundreds of internet sites?
 

Offline Erwin Ried

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2014, 10:40:50 pm »
khazama avr programmer kicks avrdudess buttocks
http://khazama.com/project/programmer/
My website: http://ried.cl
 

Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2014, 10:56:32 pm »
its shouldnt be hard to kick avrdude butt because there are many things still need fixing and no interest in the creator to do so. ie those totally wacko fuse listings. and many errors in the error messages. however unless kazama has command line capability for reasons of productivity and scripting then im afraid there is no competition for serious programming. and what about the device list? will it do tpi? >128k flash?
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2014, 11:01:22 pm »
-it  shouldnt be hard to kick avrdude butt because there are many-

the other poster was talking about kicking avrdudess butt, not avrdude butt.

avrdude is very different from avrdudess, like apple. Vs. Orange.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2014, 01:11:25 am »
ah... i didnt read closely. so kazama is just another pretty dress. then maybe more like apple and apple skin.

anyway im still waiting for something better than dude to come along or fix the big problems. maybe theres hope... finally after years of waiting latest release does skip ff locations instead of pointlessly wasting several minutes programming a tiny 512 byte bootloader up high.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2014, 12:49:42 pm »
A few other solutions:

1) bootloader: FLIP from Atmel is feasible but not as good. Teensy's bootloader is excellent but only available on Teensy. You have the Arduino stuff too. I think Atmel publishes a few of its own. But I don't think they work on 100% of their chips. And they are not practical on smaller chips.

2) Dragon: It has the added benefits of hv programming.

3) pickit2: it can be used to program avrs (just some?). Not sure of the limitations.

4) write your own: it gets the job done exactly the way you wanted.

...


To me, programming the chip is so trivial that I care little about the programmer / programming software. I guess that's why you see such a lack of interest / progress / bug fixes.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2014, 04:59:26 pm »
3) pickit2: it can be used to program avrs (just some?). Not sure of the limitations.

part of my job as firmware engineer is developing bootloaders. many different types for at least 3 of my clients so im pretty up to speed on what is and is not available out there. so flashing tools are far from trivial for me. little things like that ff issue have a HUGE impact on my productivity to the tune of hundreds of man hours wasted (no exaggeration). so important i was forced to fix the problem myself but so many other bugs in the version i started from it was necessary to maintain two complete sets of exe and conf. one for bootloader work and another that works properly with all the avrs. until recent release that is.

as far as pickit2 limitations, cost tops the list. you can literally buy a dozen avrasp which do ALL atmel chips instead of just a few like microchip. very important if you need to supply many clients and entire classrooms. thankfully pic is fading from both the hobby and academic scene.

 

Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2014, 07:32:54 pm »
I tried to program a new atmega328p chip with avrdude + avrdudes but it did not work. It could not even read the signature (got all zeros).

I looked at the ISP signals and the clock sclk was about 1Mhz. I read somewhere that virgin AVR  chips come factory fused to 1Mhz internal RC clock and that the ISP clock speed can be at most 1/4 of that frequency (that is, no more than 250Khz).

Anybody know how to tell avrdudes to reduce the ISP speed?  Avrdude has a '-B 4' option but I don't know how to make avrdedes to use it.

I have no problem programming chips that already oscillates at 16Mhz.


Edit: figured it out. AVRDUDESS has a Bit clock (-B) text field in the main menu. Setting it to 4 does the trick. It's kind of strange that the default setting is incompatible with out of the factory blank chips.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 04:14:11 am by zapta »
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2014, 08:57:45 pm »
Quote
flashing tools are far from trivial for me...

This is where I have trouble understanding you. You apparently have the demand for a better programmer; You said you also have the skills to make one yourself.

Yet, you insist on using an inferior tool that doesn't fit your needs / stature.

Why not just make your own "avrdude" the way you want? It helps your productivity; and it helps the community if others may find your "avrdude" more desirable.

Instead, you are wasting your time complaining about someone else not having sufficient interests and urgency to fix a tool for you.

Where is the disconnect?
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Offline Kremmen

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2014, 08:00:58 am »
Sheesh. You are talking about hundreds of wasted hours messing around with flaky hobby tools. Man, the business case is obvious to anyone who can put 2 and 2 together. So run, not walk, to the nearest browser and order a proper AVR tool to handle the job for you. ISP Mk2 or 3 comes to mind and case closed. Or are all thos hours free of charge so that there is no matter how many you waste...?
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2014, 03:16:38 am »
Sheesh. run, not walk, to the nearest browser and order a proper AVR tool to handle the job for you. ISP Mk2 or 3

Why not just make your own "avrdude" the way you want? It helps your productivity; and it helps the community if others may find your "avrdude" more desirable.

there does seem to be a problem understanding, maybe language barrier, so i will repeat. i do have my own "dude" and it functions perfectly for all my professional needs. only on the rare occasion when forced to work in windows or other gui os do the real avrdude problems crop up and since that is not often and im aware of the bugs, no problem.

and im not looking for another programmer. usbasp is perfect. i have mkII, dragon, a $2000 dataio, and others sitting on the shelf and they dont hold a candle up to it. nothing but problems. as far as mkII i dont know how many times driver and firmware updates were required and probably still dont support tpi. reminds me of microchips programmers. not to mention you can buy a dozen usbasp for the cost of one mkII. so again, no problem.

i was merely commenting on some issues gui fanboys might encounter. even if i did publish my utility unlikely anyone would be able to use it. for most real mode cmd line os is like garlic to a vampire. this thread made that clear. anyway its good you are happy with status quo.
 

Offline Kremmen

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2014, 10:33:03 am »
Oh, sorry, i'm sure. Whatever floats your boat.
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Offline redben

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2014, 10:33:42 am »
I pesonnaly use X Code on my macintosh with avrdude to get hex file.
The I upload hex with a very nice gui called avr tools : http://www.w7ay.net/site/Applications/AVR%20Tools/index.html

This app make the fuse set up much more user friendly.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2014, 11:00:22 am »
Quote
only on the rare occasion

Quote
not often

Quote
no problem.

Quote
so again, no problem.

So you spent pages and days rigorously complaining about an issue that a) is actually a non-issue and b)  you rarely encounter?

What happened to the "HUGE impact" on your productivity, or those "hundreds of man hours wasted (no exaggeration)"?

Which side of the story are we supposed to believe?


Quote
usbasp is perfect.

Absolutely agree, as long as you exclude issues that it cannot solve.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2014, 11:36:46 pm »
lol. you are easily confused. i can go into a detailed timeline for last 7 years but lets just say i started out with the same tools you and most others here adore then, finding them inadequate, took matters into my own hands. no regrets because it did nudge me into a higher productivity environment. and only recently did the dude dude wake up and fix that ff bug which was the biggest time sink. now if he would only straighten out the mislabeled fuse messages and also stop calling 1 bits 0 it would be quite a nice tool.

issues that usbasp cannot solve? how can you solve "issues" that dont exist. or maybe you refer to non-hardware related.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2014, 12:13:57 am »
Quote
you are easily confused.

Sure, particularly when your statements are diametrically opposite of each other. While they may be both wrong, they cannot be both correct.

All I was trying to understand is how could you have trivial issues that cost you greatly in productivity losses and hundreds of man hours wasted? There can be only one possible explanation here and it doesn't bode well for you.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2014, 12:15:09 am »
Quote
issues that usbasp cannot solve? how can you solve "issues" that dont exist.

They may not exist to you. That doesn't mean that they don't exist at all.

All it takes is to know it better.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2014, 12:40:57 am »
I was trying to understand is how could you have trivial issues that cost you greatly in productivity losses and hundreds of man hours wasted? There can be only one possible explanation here and it doesn't bode well for you.

you are making things up danny. i dont think i every said "trivial" issues impacted my productivity.

1. one particular NON-trivial problem cost me, by estimation, nearly a thousand hours of wasted time watching avrdude progress bars.  mostly loading programs that totaled less than 1/2 kbyte (500 bytes).

2. solved by developing tools that did not suffer this NON-trivial problem. also relieved my workload bailing out students and fellow club members.

3. years go by and avrdude developers start listening to myriad complaints (not me) and made changes. issues still exist but most of those who are familiar with the tool have workarounds so might be considered cosmetic or trivial. still causes noobs to brick chips so maybe not trivial to some.

its hard put it more simply but if you really want to continue this "discussion" i will try.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2014, 12:47:22 am »
Quote
i dont think i every said "trivial" issues impacted my productivity.

You did say that those issues were "no problem" 3x, and that they only impacted you on rare occasions.

That sounds very trivial to me.
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Offline zapta

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2014, 03:19:53 am »
Guysl, this is a useful thread, please don't get it locked.
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Offline paulie

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Re: Programming AVRs without AVR Studio?
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2014, 08:50:10 pm »
agreed. silly that a person cannot understand there may be both nontrivial and trivial issues and the latter have little effect on productivity. maybe trolling, maybe personality issues, but i think out of hundreds browsing this thread it was worth repeating if the light bulb went on for a few.
 


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