What µC are you preffering

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah.

We've been so lucky lately with two threads, one about favorite MCUs, another about HDLs, similar in essence, and they invariably trigger the same kind of posts and reactions. *sigh*
 

[techman-001]

Yeah.

We've been so lucky lately with two threads, one about favorite MCUs, another about HDLs, similar in essence, and they invariably trigger the same kind of posts and reactions. *sigh*
 

Did you miss the recent one about "what's your favorite OS" ?

[ogden]

Absolutely so. If you want to pick up your first MCU to start fiddling with, whether you select AVR or SAM, will not make any difference whatsoever.

Complexity of those MCU's differ. Amount of user manual pages to read indeed makes difference - for beginner. The simpler the better.

[westfw]

Well, I do mostly stuff where the requirements are modest, the programming language is likely to be C, and my primary concern was "can I get a good deal."   So i've bought some PICs in various packages, some 8051s, some AVRs, some MC9S08, and more recently various ARM chips.  Usually when they showed up cheap on eBay, or in Newark's "overstock" area, or cheap boards from Aliexpress, in "bulk" quantities (for a hobbyist, anyway.  100 at a time or so.)DO NOT DO THIS.  It's stupid.  Any money I've saved on chips I've spent on programmers, or on the time spent to get a set of tools installed and working to the extent of being able to use them.  :-(

[brucehoult]

Well, I do mostly stuff where the requirements are modest, the programming language is likely to be C, and my primary concern was "can I get a good deal."   So i've bought some PICs in various packages, some 8051s, some AVRs, some MC9S08, and more recently various ARM chips.  Usually when they showed up cheap on eBay, or in Newark's "overstock" area, or cheap boards from Aliexpress, in "bulk" quantities (for a hobbyist, anyway.  100 at a time or so.)DO NOT DO THIS.  It's stupid.  Any money I've saved on chips I've spent on programmers, or on the time spent to get a set of tools installed and working to the extent of being able to use them.  :-(

I basically can't be bothered to learn something that doesn't have gnu binutils, gcc, and ideally gdb (but I'm fine with printf debugging) It doesn't matter if the gcc is a little old (my avr-gcc is 5.4.0 from .. omg .. June 2016). I know the flags. I know how the machine-independent optimizations work (pretty well!). I know how to sling around .o and .elf files, extract them to hex or get the compiler to generate assembly language and then assemble that ... everything is just familiar and comfortable across a dozen or more instruction sets.

Preferably it's possible to program boards over USB, and stand-alone chips using something I already have e.g. it's so easy to use an Arduino Uno to program bare AVR chips. In the last week or so a friend had a commercial board (Blinkstick Square) with 8 RGB LEDs and an ATtiny85 in SOIC-8 and I was able to use an Uno and a test clip to replace the firmware with some code of my own devising to do something totally different with the board.

I know the proprietor of this site likes PIC and runs down AVR "fanboys". As far as I can make out they're pretty damn similar in peripherals, RAM, flash, price etc across a wide range with little technical reason to choose between them. I guess I just like that AVR is friendly enough to conventional compilers for high level languages that I can use the same toolchain family as I do for ARMv7, AARMv8, RISC-V, and my x86_64 workstation. And the Arduino project has resulted in a lot of highly compatible boards at many capability levels -- and not only with AVR processors -- which is great too. I believe there is Arduino IDE and library and compiler support for some PIC32 (i.e. MIPS) boards, but not 8 bit PIC. The same goes for Platformio which is pretty darn nice, totally free for all supported platforms now (thanks to sponsorship from Western Digital and SiFive), and supports a ton of stuff including PIC32 .. but not 8 bit PIC.

[hans]

And the differences between families lie mostly in your emotions, skills, preferences etc.

To say that AVR and ATSAM differ only in your emotions, skills and preferences is 

LoL!

Absolutely so. If you want to pick up your first MCU to start fiddling with, whether you select AVR or SAM, will not make any difference whatsoever. And if someone thinks differently, this is because of his emotions, skills, preferences etc.

Of course you can fiddle with any part all day, but if you cannot follow the documentation (overwhelming RTL of modern ARM chips for a beginner), you won't get very far.
This is why Arduino can still be an ideal platform to start with. People first need to develop an appreciation for the connection between software and hardware worlds, and can then dive deeper to find how the split, at a register level, occurs.

I think this learn ranking for AVR and SAM parts is also still true, or ideal at best.

Whether someone sticks with a particular part/family of parts can be somewhat irrational. Some people stick with 8-bit controllers because "it's so simple, I like it!". Is that objectively the best design solution for every project? Probably not, but people will try to make it work like it's 2005. And honestly there is nothing wrong with that. I stick to 32-bit STM32s because they have served me well, and I'm too lazy to switch back to C and abandon my C++ embedded library & creature comforts I'm adjusted to. Which means that in some cases, I have got a few K of code running before I can even blink a LED.

[Psi]

For quick development i go for the ATTiny or ATMega, but this is mainly because i know it so well. 
Price wise they're not very cheap compared to other MCUs.

For low price, or if i need a little more power than ATTiny/Mega, i go for STM32F0
(The STM32F103 might actually be better but i've never actually used one yet)

If i need something super powerful i go for STM32F4 (i wouldn't mind trying F7 but have not needed to yet)

If having Wifi would be useful i go for the ESP32 (i used to use ESP8266 but support for newer wifi networks on ESP8266 is lacking)

If i need EEPROM i go for ATTiny/Mega or STM32L series depending on price and speed requirements.

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah.

We've been so lucky lately with two threads, one about favorite MCUs, another about HDLs, similar in essence, and they invariably trigger the same kind of posts and reactions. *sigh*
 

Did you miss the recent one about "what's your favorite OS" ?

Which one?

[techman-001]

Yeah.

We've been so lucky lately with two threads, one about favorite MCUs, another about HDLs, similar in essence, and they invariably trigger the same kind of posts and reactions. *sigh*
 

Did you miss the recent one about "what's your favorite OS" ?

Which one?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/what-os-do-you-use-for-embedded-software-development/msg2952618/#msg2952618

[SiliconWizard]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/what-os-do-you-use-for-embedded-software-development/msg2952618/#msg2952618

- We're getting off-topic, sorry -

Oh, this one was not quite in the same vein IMO. It didn't ask for anything favorite, just what people were actually using, and was a lot more specific. It didn't trigger the same kind of reactions either, I think the overall posts in it were quite constrained and reasonable.

[techman-001]

For quick development i go for the ATTiny or ATMega, but this is mainly because i know it so well. 
Price wise they're not very cheap compared to other MCUs.

For low price, or if i need a little more power than ATTiny/Mega, i go for STM32F0
(The STM32F103 might actually be better but i've never actually used one yet)

If i need something super powerful i go for STM32F4 (i wouldn't mind trying F7 but have not needed to yet)

If having Wifi would be useful i go for the ESP32 (i used to use ESP8266 but support for newer wifi networks on ESP8266 is lacking)

If i need EEPROM i go for ATTiny/Mega or STM32L series depending on price and speed requirements.

The STM32F103 isn't better than the STM32F0, certainly 3 -5 x faster, but also a lot older. I used the STM32F0 first and hated the GPIO config of the STM32F1 when I tried it a few years later. The STM32F103 may also be missing a few peripherals such as the Touch Sensor, Comparators and DAC etc. Not to mention bugs such as not being able to read the DBG registers internally unless debugging hardware is attached (ironically, later fixed in the 'compatible' clones).

How about the STM32WB55 for inbuilt wireless ?

[Psi]

Interesting.
The main reason i was wondering about the STM32F103  is that everyone else seems to be using them and they are cheap due to volume.

Never looked at STM32WB55 Looks to be BLE/Zigbee. I usually use full wifi

[reyntjensm]

Hi everyone,

I started as a child with a PIC(microchip) kit from Velleman, a shitty brand in Belgium. It never worked out for me.
With the release of the Arduino i was finally able to start using microcontrollers and got stuck with electronics since then.
As i wanted i reliable microcontroller for my projects and i was over my arduino-period, a teacher from school told me about Infineon XMC series and i started to work with this. It took me so much time to get my first project working since the documentation is so bad/hard to find so i gave up and started with STM.
I'm using system workbench and cubeMX for all my projects and achieved very good results with this.
Documentation is easy to find and the software(cubeMX) is very handy and easy to use!
So i would say STM is a good brand to start with, example projects,documentation , chips for every application at a good price point and they work fine.
I hope this input from a beginner might be handy for somebody and i don't receive any money from STM for this.

[steenerson]

I prefer Silicon Labs EFM8. Particularly EFM8UB1 for USB HID devices. They are cheap, require no external components besides decoupling caps, have built in Vreg, free IDE, easy to debug.

Very cool, 3x3mm chip with a built in USB bootloader for a dollar in unit quantity. I have a couple things where I just need a USB port and I've been using 5x5mm STM32s that cost 3-4x that, and they aren't even USB programmable out of the box. Think I'll grab one of these dev boards, thanks!

[brucehoult]

I prefer Silicon Labs EFM8. Particularly EFM8UB1 for USB HID devices. They are cheap, require no external components besides decoupling caps, have built in Vreg, free IDE, easy to debug.

Very cool, 3x3mm chip with a built in USB bootloader for a dollar in unit quantity. I have a couple things where I just need a USB port and I've been using 5x5mm STM32s that cost 3-4x that, and they aren't even USB programmable out of the box. Think I'll grab one of these dev boards, thanks!

Ok, those look interesting enough to check out.  I've ordered a $30 dev kit, a $6.65 dev board (cheaper chip without USB), and the last four EFM8UB11F16G-C-QSOP24 DigiKey had in stock. The chips were $1.38 each, though yes they're $1.03 at 1000 qty (which I'll never need).

Those are about 5 mm wide (plus pins) by 8 mm long which is a lot bigger than what you said so I'm not sure what you found -- but I don't like dealing with things I can't see and hand-solder :-)

The only thing that is ugh is 8051.

The dev board says it comes with a Keil license, so that will be a new experience. Internet also says there is a gcc for 8051 but I don't know what quality it is.

[wraper]

I prefer Silicon Labs EFM8. Particularly EFM8UB1 for USB HID devices. They are cheap, require no external components besides decoupling caps, have built in Vreg, free IDE, easy to debug.

Very cool, 3x3mm chip with a built in USB bootloader for a dollar in unit quantity. I have a couple things where I just need a USB port and I've been using 5x5mm STM32s that cost 3-4x that, and they aren't even USB programmable out of the box. Think I'll grab one of these dev boards, thanks!

Ok, those look interesting enough to check out.  I've ordered a $30 dev kit, a $6.65 dev board (cheaper chip without USB), and the last four EFM8UB11F16G-C-QSOP24 DigiKey had in stock. The chips were $1.38 each, though yes they're $1.03 at 1000 qty (which I'll never need).

Those are about 5 mm wide (plus pins) by 8 mm long which is a lot bigger than what you said so I'm not sure what you found -- but I don't like dealing with things I can't see and hand-solder :-)

The only thing that is ugh is 8051.

The dev board says it comes with a Keil license, so that will be a new experience. Internet also says there is a gcc for 8051 but I don't know what quality it is.

There is 16 kB version in QFN-20 and QFN-28 and 8kB version in QFN-20 (costs $0.6 @ qty of 1000). QSOP version is the most expensive.
EFM8UB10F8G-C-QFN20
EFM8UB10F16G-C-QFN20
EFM8UB10F16G-C-QFN28
BTW you can get USB VID/PID from Silabs for free.

[brucehoult]

I'm just a lot more confident using a QSOP or SOIC in a kitchen table project/prototype, possibly including soldering it to an adapter board to DIP. If I ever got to a product that I pay someone to assemble then that's different.

[Scrts]

I'm just a lot more confident using a QSOP or SOIC in a kitchen table project/prototype, possibly including soldering it to an adapter board to DIP. If I ever got to a product that I pay someone to assemble then that's different.

I'd go with QFN over leaded packages on any day. The bridging is so hard to clean with a leaded package, while with QFN a simple swipe with the correct iron gets it all done.

It also depends on PCB and solder mask. I remember the nightmares of soldering TQFP208 on a PCB that did not have solder mask between the pins. Soldering with solder mask between the pins make sit super easy and doesn't require hot air station.

[wraper]

It also depends on PCB and solder mask. I remember the nightmares of soldering TQFP208 on a PCB that did not have solder mask between the pins. Soldering with solder mask between the pins make sit super easy and doesn't require hot air station.

You don't need hot air station for TQFP, and actually it's completely counterproductive to use one for soldering. And in no way it will help with solder bridges unless you apply solder paste with stencil. Solder mask pad separation is not required too, you just need to know learn to do soldering properly.

[nctnico]

I'm just a lot more confident using a QSOP or SOIC in a kitchen table project/prototype, possibly including soldering it to an adapter board to DIP. If I ever got to a product that I pay someone to assemble then that's different.

I'd go with QFN over leaded packages on any day. The bridging is so hard to clean with a leaded package, while with QFN a simple swipe with the correct iron gets it all done.

That depends entirely on the PCB layout. If you have problems with bridging on QFP then you are not using enough flux and the tip is too small. Use a bigger tip and more flux. For hand soldering QFN you'll need footprints which leave about 0.5mm room to put a soldering iron on but I'd take QFP over QFN every day.

Regarding the type of uC: I've been very happy with the ARM controller from NXP (LPC series). There is good hardware compatibility between the devices so hardware drivers can be re-used and the serial bootloader is very mature / reliable.

[rx8pilot]

You don't need hot air station for TQFP, and actually it's completely counterproductive to use one for soldering. And in no way it will help with solder bridges unless you apply solder paste with stencil. Solder mask pad separation is not required too, you just need to know learn to do soldering properly.

I cannot agree with that statement. While you can certainly solder TQFP without hot-air - it is (along with most solder jobs) quite a bit easier with a pre-heated PCB. I use my hot-air system to get the PCB at around 100-125 or so and the solder flows VERY easily, evenly, and without bridges.

On the topic at hand - I prefer the ATMEGAs but only out of pure habit and unwillingness to go through another learning curve. I know the ATMEL system and can develop it quickly. The newer 0-Series 4808/4809 have a different architecture which forced me into a learning curve but nothing crazy. They are very cheap and easily available.

I almost always use VQFN packages because they are small and I already have them dialed in to my library.

[wraper]

I cannot agree with that statement. While you can certainly solder TQFP without hot-air - it is (along with most solder jobs) quite a bit easier with a pre-heated PCB. I use my hot-air system to get the PCB at around 100-125 or so and the solder flows VERY easily, evenly, and without bridges.

Don't agree with what? Hot air was mentioned not about preheating. And preheater not necessarily uses hot air. IIRC you made your preheater from hot air gun and machined piece of metal but it does not entitle it to be mentioned as "hot air" out of this context.

[rx8pilot]

Don't agree with what? Hot air was mentioned not about preheating. And preheater not necessarily uses hot air. IIRC you made your preheater from hot air gun and machined piece of metal but it does not entitle it to be mentioned as "hot air" out of this context.

Fair enough.....

To be clear - I use hot air the majority of the time as a pre-heating mechanism to make soldering considerably easier. It is certainly true that preheating can be accomplished without hot air. For manual PCB assembly, I usually do not use paste for most devices. I do have a precision paste dispenser, but it usually gets used to apply flux when I am hand-soldering.

Perhaps what I should have attempted to communicate is that a soldering iron alone is not a complete system for TQFP packages IMHO. Possible? Yes, of course but not very good.

[NorthGuy]

I'd go with QFN over leaded packages on any day. The bridging is so hard to clean with a leaded package, while with QFN a simple swipe with the correct iron gets it all done.

The bridging depends on the pitch. 0.65mm is usually not a problem. 0.5mm is Ok. With 0.4mm, the bridging is very hard to get rid of, at least for me.

But 0.4mm QFN is not fun neither, especially small ones. Pins are so small that I cannot really put enough solder on the footprint before heating. Then I need to add solder to pins manually, and I need really thin tip to get to the pins, and it feels like poking in the dark to me.

[brucehoult]

I'd go with QFN over leaded packages on any day. The bridging is so hard to clean with a leaded package, while with QFN a simple swipe with the correct iron gets it all done.

The bridging depends on the pitch. 0.65mm is usually not a problem. 0.5mm is Ok. With 0.4mm, the bridging is very hard to get rid of, at least for me.

But 0.4mm QFN is not fun neither, especially small ones. Pins are so small that I cannot really put enough solder on the footprint before heating. Then I need to add solder to pins manually, and I need really thin tip to get to the pins, and it feels like poking in the dark to me.

I'm glad I've stuck to 2.54 and 1.27 spacing packages so far. But I've just ordered a few chips (see above) with 0.635.

I've been moving around the world a lot (next international move is in three weeks from now) and can't carry a whole workshop of equipment with me -- I've just got a basic temperature controlled soldering iron. I buy little PCBs to break everything out to 2.54 spacing to go on a breadboard or protoboard *anyway* so tiny packages are utterly wasted on me.