Remember Olimex? They're Still Great AVR Boards...

[TomKatt]

I needed a simple control interface for a small project - poking around the web, I stumbled on an oldie but a goodie - the Olimex AVR-MT-128.  ATmega128 uc with lcd, buttons, buzzer, (2) serial, relay with terminals and more for $15.  Everything needed for a simple control interface.  What a blast from the past!

Which makes me wonder - are there other simple boards with uc, display, input and output on a single small board?  I was surprised not to find many others to choose from...  I have a bunch of M5stack modules and they are the closest thing if I add a relay module.

Edit - this board reminds me of the cheap GRBL cnc offline controller boards...  Not sure if they have a uc on board or if they are just serial i/o.

Edit 2 - You can get these for $15 in the USA from Microcontrollershop.  They've been around forever - I purchased some of my first AVR boards from them in the 2000's lol.

[brucehoult]

Olimex do have a lot of cool stuff.

At one point they were perhaps best known for their USB-JTAG adaptors, but they have nice dev boards for not only AVR but also Arm, MSP430, PIC,

And also this cool €1 RISC-V retro-PC kit with bit-banged PS/2 keyboard and VGA output powered by an 8 pin 2K RAM CH32V003:

https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/RVPC/open-source-hardware

[TomKatt]

I'll buy that for a dollar 

[Buriedcode]

Yeah I've still got a few Olimex boards that get some use, mostly AVR and JTAG adapters.  Their dev boards were pretty good, with just enough features/jumpers/options to be useful, but not so much it limits what can be done jsut with the board.  They always added a large prototyping area which was large enough for sub boards to be added.  And as mentioned, their pricing is still competitive somehow.

[TomKatt]

Yeah I've still got a few Olimex boards that get some use, mostly AVR and JTAG adapters.  Their dev boards were pretty good, with just enough features/jumpers/options to be useful, but not so much it limits what can be done jsut with the board.  They always added a large prototyping area which was large enough for sub boards to be added.  And as mentioned, their pricing is still competitive somehow.

Back before Arduino's took over the scene...  And then Raspberry Pi's.  And now ESP-32's.

I still have an 8051 running something around here... It's been a journey 

And to think that Microchip bought Atmel...  I have to say - I never saw that coming lol.

[mikerj]

I used that exact Olimex board to prototype a solar water heater pump controller for a work colleague in 2008. It used a pair of DS18B20 one wire sensors to measure the panel input and output temperatures and measured the voltage on the small electrical solar panel that powered the pump to shut the system down if there was insufficient sunlight, otherwise it cooled the water in the storage tank instead of heating.  It worked extremely well compared to the original "control system" that the solar company installed aka a shunt resistor on the electrical solar panel that loaded the voltage down until there was sufficient sunlight to operate the pump.

IIRC Olimex provided the PCB cad files and my colleague (who was an ECAD guy) customised it to his own requirements when we got the prototype running.

[peter-h]

Olimex are a funny company. Refuse to sell to the UK under €200, despite the brexit treaty clearly being free-trade if B2B. Only B2C there is an issue, below the equivalent of GBP 135 or so. They are too lazy... For a company in (AFAICT) Romania, I would expect them to be smarter.

[Sorama]

Olimex are a funny company. Refuse to sell to the UK under €200, despite the brexit treaty clearly being free-trade if B2B. Only B2C there is an issue, below the equivalent of GBP 135 or so. They are too lazy...

I'm not sure about this, as we stopped buying stuff from UK since Brexit.

Whatever we buy (always more than 1000€) is subject to taxes on import.
So much of taxes that we stopped buying from UK.

[peter-h]

Yes; you pay EU import VAT, but you claim it back. Previously, if you supplied the UK vendor with a valid EU VAT number, you got a zero VAT invoice, which amounts to the same thing.

The difference is that now you might get a customs admin charge, exactly like you will get from say the USA, but IME this is €10-20.

If you are not VAT registered then you pay the EU import VAT and cannot claim it back, but that is again same as before, because the UK vendor had to add UK VAT (20%) because he did not have your EU VAT number.

So, almost no change I've been doing import and export, worldwide, since 1978. Somebody is feeding you BS. Or you are buying from a dickhead company in the UK which is adding 20% VAT on exports All exports from the UK are now zero-VAT.

Something strange is going on. Well, it is true that as a part of "brexit punishment" some customs offices (notably BE, NL, DE, FR) are messing around with UK packages, but that got stopped if using a courier. It still happens on ~10% of airmail packages. Also some offices are classifying documents as goods, which is ridiculous because the recipient gets hit with an admin charge, and a lot of people get pissed off and refuse the package.

[dzwer]

... For a company in (AFAICT) Romania, I would expect them to be smarter.

https://www.olimex.com/About/
"We are established in 1991 in Plovdiv - the second largest city in Bulgaria."
But for both countries:
"From 1 January 2025 Bulgaria and Romania are fully part of the Schengen area."
Now it should be easier for Olimex to trade in the EU, but not shure for the UK...

[Ice-Tea]

So, almost no change

At least incomplete. Speaking from personal experience: if I get a sale, I push a button in my Sendcloud account and a DPD ticket rolls out. Creating an invoice still requires some manual work, but that's limited.

When you're exporting, chances of stuff getting stuck increase by an order of magnitude. Not only do you have to take into account the hours you'll spend every once in a while trying to figure out where your package is stuck and why, I also don't use an agregator like Sendcloud because you can't communicate directly to the courier in case of issues as you otherwise would. This adds cost and in addition, you have to fill in all details manually. You also have to weigh and measure the package. DPD inside the EU doesn't gove a shit, UPS to the UK most certainly does. You have to upload the invoice (or print them in 4-fold), lookup and add country of origin and HS-codes. Shipping cost itself is double or more.

Payment fees are likely to be higher.

Chances are you'll also have to email back and forth a few more times with your customer, explaining the procedure and likely costs.

If you're ever unlucky enough that a customer wants to return goods, you're screwed even more.

They are not lazy. All the above will easily eat whatever margin you might have on sub-200€ sale.

[Sorama]

Yes; you pay EU import VAT, but you claim it back. Previously, if you supplied the UK vendor with a valid EU VAT number, you got a zero VAT invoice, which amounts to the same thing.

The difference is that now you might get a customs admin charge, exactly like you will get from say the USA, but IME this is €10-20.

If you are not VAT registered then you pay the EU import VAT and cannot claim it back, but that is again same as before, because the UK vendor had to add UK VAT (20%) because he did not have your EU VAT number.

So, almost no change I've been doing import and export, worldwide, since 1978. Somebody is feeding you BS. Or you are buying from a dickhead company in the UK which is adding 20% VAT on exports All exports from the UK are now zero-VAT.

Something strange is going on. Well, it is true that as a part of "brexit punishment" some customs offices (notably BE, NL, DE, FR) are messing around with UK packages, but that got stopped if using a courier. It still happens on ~10% of airmail packages. Also some offices are classifying documents as goods, which is ridiculous because the recipient gets hit with an admin charge, and a lot of people get pissed off and refuse the package.

gosh...why do some people always behave as if other people are idiots...
No one is feeding me BS, apart from you.

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.
We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

And no, we cannot reclaim it.

[TomKatt]

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.
We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

And no, we cannot reclaim it.

I'm just following along out of curiosity about the whole tariff / tax thing...

I will say that the scan you posted doesn't seem to be the issue - wouldn't the FedEx invoice would be the one related to this topic? 

[peter-h]

When you're exporting

Sure... no export = less work No argument there. But exporting can bring a lot more business. I export > 50% of my sales. And my online shop (the old and often called crappy Magento) does all the weights and shipper charges. We charge e.g. €25 for shipping anywhere on mainland Europe, up to 1kg. That is directly via DHL and Fedex do the same. We actually pay about £17. We could get less with airmail but as I said, there is a lot of hassle and you don't get proper tracking.

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.

What are those extra items called? You cut off the names.

We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

Probably import VAT. What is the breakdown? If VAT, you claim it back, same as any other VAT.

This is all standard business stuff...

wouldn't the FedEx invoice would be the one related to this topic?

Probably; they would assess import VAT as normal. There are no import duties from the UK. There are from the US, generally. You have to read the Fedex invoice and see the breakdown.

[nctnico]

Yes; you pay EU import VAT, but you claim it back. Previously, if you supplied the UK vendor with a valid EU VAT number, you got a zero VAT invoice, which amounts to the same thing.

The difference is that now you might get a customs admin charge, exactly like you will get from say the USA, but IME this is €10-20.

If you are not VAT registered then you pay the EU import VAT and cannot claim it back, but that is again same as before, because the UK vendor had to add UK VAT (20%) because he did not have your EU VAT number.

So, almost no change I've been doing import and export, worldwide, since 1978. Somebody is feeding you BS. Or you are buying from a dickhead company in the UK which is adding 20% VAT on exports All exports from the UK are now zero-VAT.

Something strange is going on. Well, it is true that as a part of "brexit punishment" some customs offices (notably BE, NL, DE, FR) are messing around with UK packages, but that got stopped if using a courier. It still happens on ~10% of airmail packages. Also some offices are classifying documents as goods, which is ridiculous because the recipient gets hit with an admin charge, and a lot of people get pissed off and refuse the package.

gosh...why do some people always behave as if other people are idiots...
No one is feeding me BS, apart from you.

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.
We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

And no, we cannot reclaim it.

Ofcourse you can reclaim the VAT. Just subtract from the VAT the company is paying as with local invoices. I have been doing exactly that for nearly 30 years in case some courier hasn't spotted it is a business to business sale.

[brucehoult]

They are not lazy. All the above will easily eat whatever margin you might have on sub-200€ sale.

That's weird. In October I made an 18 euro order from Olimex. They added 30.92 euro DHL to the other side of the world (New Zealand), 2.45 euro for using Paypal, and 0 VAT.

As expected, the order sailed through NZ customs with no fees or taxes of any kind (no GST on shipments under NZ$1000).

Is it really easier to sell from Bulgaria to NZ than to the UK? Whyyyy? If so, it's nothing to do with Brexit -- NZ is after all not part of the EU -- but just stupidity.

[brucehoult]

Yes; you pay EU import VAT, but you claim it back. Previously, if you supplied the UK vendor with a valid EU VAT number, you got a zero VAT invoice, which amounts to the same thing.

The difference is that now you might get a customs admin charge, exactly like you will get from say the USA, but IME this is €10-20.

If you are not VAT registered then you pay the EU import VAT and cannot claim it back, but that is again same as before, because the UK vendor had to add UK VAT (20%) because he did not have your EU VAT number.

So, almost no change I've been doing import and export, worldwide, since 1978. Somebody is feeding you BS. Or you are buying from a dickhead company in the UK which is adding 20% VAT on exports All exports from the UK are now zero-VAT.

Something strange is going on. Well, it is true that as a part of "brexit punishment" some customs offices (notably BE, NL, DE, FR) are messing around with UK packages, but that got stopped if using a courier. It still happens on ~10% of airmail packages. Also some offices are classifying documents as goods, which is ridiculous because the recipient gets hit with an admin charge, and a lot of people get pissed off and refuse the package.

gosh...why do some people always behave as if other people are idiots...
No one is feeding me BS, apart from you.

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.
We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

And no, we cannot reclaim it.

Ofcourse you can reclaim the VAT. Just subtract from the VAT the company is paying as with local invoices. I have been doing exactly that for nearly 30 years in case some courier hasn't spotted it is a business to business sale.

Note the key part "If you are not VAT registered"

If you are not VAT registered then you can't claim VAT back.

Any meaningful business will be VAT registered but of course individuals aren't (unless operating a sole trader business).

[nctnico]

Yes; you pay EU import VAT, but you claim it back. Previously, if you supplied the UK vendor with a valid EU VAT number, you got a zero VAT invoice, which amounts to the same thing.

The difference is that now you might get a customs admin charge, exactly like you will get from say the USA, but IME this is €10-20.

If you are not VAT registered then you pay the EU import VAT and cannot claim it back, but that is again same as before, because the UK vendor had to add UK VAT (20%) because he did not have your EU VAT number.

So, almost no change I've been doing import and export, worldwide, since 1978. Somebody is feeding you BS. Or you are buying from a dickhead company in the UK which is adding 20% VAT on exports All exports from the UK are now zero-VAT.

Something strange is going on. Well, it is true that as a part of "brexit punishment" some customs offices (notably BE, NL, DE, FR) are messing around with UK packages, but that got stopped if using a courier. It still happens on ~10% of airmail packages. Also some offices are classifying documents as goods, which is ridiculous because the recipient gets hit with an admin charge, and a lot of people get pissed off and refuse the package.

gosh...why do some people always behave as if other people are idiots...
No one is feeding me BS, apart from you.

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.
We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

And no, we cannot reclaim it.

Ofcourse you can reclaim the VAT. Just subtract from the VAT the company is paying as with local invoices. I have been doing exactly that for nearly 30 years in case some courier hasn't spotted it is a business to business sale.

Note the key part "If you are not VAT registered"

If you are not VAT registered then you can't claim VAT back.

Any meaningful business will be VAT registered but of course individuals aren't (unless operating a sole trader business).

Ofcourse, any meaningful business will be VAT registered. So what Sorama is claiming just shows lack of knowledge on how to deal with VAT. The VAT is charged by a local Fedex branch so it is local VAT. And it still begs the question why the sender isn't sending the shipments with the proper VAT / EORI numbers. Any equipment dealer should be able to do that properly. So probably there are issues at the procurement part as well. All of this can be straightened out by having some knowledge on how to deal with importing stuff from abroad.

[peter-h]

If you are not VAT registered then you can't claim VAT back.

True, but this has not changed post-brexit - as I wrote above.

why the sender isn't sending the shipments with the proper VAT / EORI numbers

If you use a courier, this is actually quite difficult because they want all that info. They don't want packages stuck in Customs either.

Is it really harder to sell from Bulgaria to NZ than to the UK?

No; it is exactly the same

[brucehoult]

Is it really harder to sell from Bulgaria to NZ than to the UK?

No; it is exactly the same

Oops .. I meant easier of course .. reversed the order I was going to write the countries mid-sentence.

And yes it should be the same.

[peter-h]

There is an issue selling internationally to members of the public: they don't like to pay import VAT etc, or the admin charges, so they sometimes refuse the package. The public is naturally quite hard to sell to In general, they want stuff for free, whereas business customers understand that they need to pay, and IME where business customers do not understand that, it is usually because they come from places where you are trading camels, or wives, and you always haggle over the price If you want an easier life in business, always go B2B.

I can imagine that a firm like Olimex, selling largely to hobbyists, may refuse to export to anybody outside the EU.

But if they export to NZ (without a €200 min value) and not the UK, that is either stupidity or "brexit punishment"

So I've been buying bits from them via Ebay, due to this Like this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193562295151

[Sorama]

Yes; you pay EU import VAT, but you claim it back. Previously, if you supplied the UK vendor with a valid EU VAT number, you got a zero VAT invoice, which amounts to the same thing.

The difference is that now you might get a customs admin charge, exactly like you will get from say the USA, but IME this is €10-20.

If you are not VAT registered then you pay the EU import VAT and cannot claim it back, but that is again same as before, because the UK vendor had to add UK VAT (20%) because he did not have your EU VAT number.

So, almost no change I've been doing import and export, worldwide, since 1978. Somebody is feeding you BS. Or you are buying from a dickhead company in the UK which is adding 20% VAT on exports All exports from the UK are now zero-VAT.

Something strange is going on. Well, it is true that as a part of "brexit punishment" some customs offices (notably BE, NL, DE, FR) are messing around with UK packages, but that got stopped if using a courier. It still happens on ~10% of airmail packages. Also some offices are classifying documents as goods, which is ridiculous because the recipient gets hit with an admin charge, and a lot of people get pissed off and refuse the package.

gosh...why do some people always behave as if other people are idiots...
No one is feeding me BS, apart from you.

attached a screenshot of an invoice our company got for buying measurement equipment from UK company for 804 pounds.
We received an extra invoice from Fedex of 187€ because of import/brexit whatever.

And no, we cannot reclaim it.

Ofcourse you can reclaim the VAT. Just subtract from the VAT the company is paying as with local invoices. I have been doing exactly that for nearly 30 years in case some courier hasn't spotted it is a business to business sale.

Note the key part "If you are not VAT registered"

If you are not VAT registered then you can't claim VAT back.

Any meaningful business will be VAT registered but of course individuals aren't (unless operating a sole trader business).

Ofcourse, any meaningful business will be VAT registered. So what Sorama is claiming just shows lack of knowledge on how to deal with VAT. The VAT is charged by a local Fedex branch so it is local VAT. And it still begs the question why the sender isn't sending the shipments with the proper VAT / EORI numbers. Any equipment dealer should be able to do that properly. So probably there are issues at the procurement part as well. All of this can be straightened out by having some knowledge on how to deal with importing stuff from abroad.

I guess our bookkeepers are not stupid and know how and why.
So if they tell me it’s not about reclaiming vat then I see No reason not to belief them nor you

[peter-h]

This is beyond weird. But not enough info supplied to draw any conclusions.

[Ice-Tea]

Fun fact: I sold an item to the UK last week. eBay kinda roughed me over on that one, but hey...

Customer payed his duties, delivery was scheduled. Then UPS lost his package. I'll be spending a lot of time today with paperwork and phone calls in an attempt to salvage something for me and my customer.

Out of the 10 packages or so I shipped out since brexit two got lost (one UPS, one DPD). Two were returned to sender without a note or any explanation at all.

So please don't pull the "brexit punishment, smiley face" card. I very much understand the "no thanks" attitude for <200€ orders and quite franky, not sending stuff to the UK would just be a sound bussiness decission at this point.

[peter-h]

There is not enough detail here.

I've been using UPS for decades and the % of packages they lose is incredibly low. Same with DHL and Fedex. Certainly below the 0.1% level. But if say the customer is illiterate (many members of the public are; I surmise this since you mention Ebay) then getting the goods there will be a problem. I sell a lot on Ebay personally and the majority of buyers are so illiterate they don't even know that their names start with an uppercase letter! And there is a general problem with customer addressing in many places. There is another problem in delivering to home addresses (the majority of Ebay trade) because mostly the guy is at work, the package is left, gets stolen, and it is obvious that if a package has just been left then you can keep it and say it never arrived; a % of the public will do this, but not in B2B. DPD gets this a lot. Guess what % of the public have a criminal record? ~30%. And ~3% for fraud.

DPD is a shit company. Along with Yodel, it is a miracle that the package gets delivered They struggle to deliver packages to my business address... But they are cheap which is why people use them. I know someone who is a heavy user of DPD and last time I heard he bought a goods in transit insurance and just puts in a claim, and re-sends the goods.

As I keep repeating, selling to private individuals (this includes electronics hobbyists), home addresses, using cheap carriers, stacks up the risks and hassle, and doing it cross-border throws in another big factor. In my business (99% B2B) the main issues we have had were

- Middle East, China, India, etc, customers supplying duff addresses (especially big oil companies)
- pre-brexit, EU private individual customers pretending they are VAT registered and supplying bogus VAT numbers
- post-brexit, with airmail, deliberate dodgy practices by customs offices at the receiving end

None of this is relevant to Olimex not shipping < €200 to the UK. They could cut down the risk by doing B2B only, for example. The other day I was buying some German bathroom spare parts. They refused to ship to the UK, totally. But they did ship to a business customer, so I bought the stuff that way

Obviously not exporting makes for less work What do you do about orders from the US?

[Ice-Tea]

There is not enough detail here.

Not enough detail? What do you want more???

I sell T&M stuff. It's sold to the same public that roams this place. No illiterates there. Also: I'm telling you UPS lost the package. I'm not sure why you think more information is required.

Also: of the 20 packages shipped with UPS over the last 12months, they lost 2. That's 10%.

None of this is relevant to Olimex not shipping < €200 to the UK.

It isn't? I'm consider not to ship to the UK anymore because it is loosing me money but you can't see the relevance to another company in the same situation?

As for orders to the US: zero lost packages, zero problems.

[peter-h]

of the 20 packages shipped with UPS over the last 12months, they lost 2. That's 10%.

I suspect your business model is selecting customers of a certain kind

You mention you sell on Ebay. Go figure One has to be very careful there. I looked at your Ebay store (in your sig) and can't see an obvious problem, so something else must be going on.

[Ice-Tea]

Or, you know, hear me out... Neither I nor my customers are idiots and things are the way I describe them.

[peter-h]

OK let me put it a different way.

If UPS lost 20% of packages, would they still be in business?

Even if they lost 20% going to the UK, only?

[Ice-Tea]

Did I claim they lose that many on average? Obviously not.

My experiences are what they are. The only point I tried to make is that if companies encounter UK trade related problems and decide it's not worth it there may be other reasons besides brexit punishment and incompetence.

I'm well aware my experience may not line up with yours or others. It's a level of empathy I can only recommend.

Having said that, I'm kinda done with this.

[Doctorandus_P]

I've been thinking about using the ubiquitous "transistor tester" as a general purpose development board. There are many variants, both with monochrome and with color dot matrix LCD's and also with the good old HD44780, and it has an atmega 8 (328?) (or clone). Similar for the DSO138 or DSO Nano. Higher resolution TFT LCD, and the kit is mass produced in China which keeps the price down.

And yes, I do remember Olimex. Right now I have a Lime 2 lying on my desk next to me.