Replacement for STM32F407?

[harerod]

Since most of my clients don't care for closing their production for a couple of years, I am looking for replacements for the STM32F4x7x.
Most important features being ARM M3 or M4 CPU and at least 512kB FLASH. LQFP100 or LQFP144 packages, rather than BGA, would be a nice.
Required peripherals: Ethernet, USB, USART, SPI, Timers.
Firmware: freeRTOS or bare metal / CMSIS.
Chinese components are not an option, for reasons which I am not going to discuss in this thread.
We are aware of other CPU families, however for several reasons we would like to stay with ARM.

For starters I had a look at NXP, where the largest (available) MCU was some M4 with 256kB Flash or even ROMless.

Since this is a common topic for designers at the moment, I am looking forward to your thoughts.

[mino-fm]

Good morning. You are late, aren't you?
Here you can find 2120 parts. You only have to remove controller from PCB.
https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F407G-DISC1?qs=mKNKSX85ZJejxc9JOGT45A%3D%3D

[SiliconWizard]

There are literally thousands of parts to choose from indeed.

One point you may want to elaborate on so we can better understand your need is why you want to stop using STM32F4x7x parts?

[Gribo]

If you are willing to use Toshiba, Maxim or Renesas: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/embedded-microcontrollers/685?s=N4IgjCBcpgbFoDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbRFgA4BWWeAyqgdkZHoooCYBmV89sCr1gBOWBwj1RYFgF0CABwAuUEAGVFAJwCWAOwDmIAL6SEIZJHTZ8RUiAAsABmFdnIOSCUr12-UYJgqKlNzS1wCYkgybmcuIIIOOw4OWAkQDkYKRjBUsA4HKgDeQK5uXjhOTN488Vged09INU1dA2MQKgd4aDNUTDCbSJAuMDsKYQdeYdHhO0mRsbihkfGONwVlRu8Wv3BhMeDeq3DbCfqNpp9WggBaVe7zTQBXawiyIJk26%2BEDyCeX2wgH0MhiAA

[tom66]

I've used TM4C1294NCPDT in the past.  1MB flash, 256KB SRAM, ethernet, USB, all the standard SPI/I2C/etc.   It's relatively expensive, but still has adequate availability.  I think not as affected by the semiconductor shortage as TI fab it themselves.

[thm_w]

There are literally thousands of parts to choose from indeed.

One point you may want to elaborate on so we can better understand your need is why you want to stop using STM32F4x7x parts?

Sounds like they don't want to wait until April 2022, assuming that date is even accurate.

[SiliconWizard]

There are literally thousands of parts to choose from indeed.

One point you may want to elaborate on so we can better understand your need is why you want to stop using STM32F4x7x parts?

Sounds like they don't want to wait until April 2022, assuming that date is even accurate.

Well, if it's "only" a matter of supply... unfortunately at this point, suggesting another vendor/part is like playing dice. You may stumble upon a part that is fully available in acceptable quantities right now, and discover a few months from now, once your design is complete and ready to go to production, that said part is no stock for months. It's a really bad situation.

Or, you can overstock it, if enough pieces are available at the moment. If you have the finances.

[thm_w]

Well, if it's "only" a matter of supply... unfortunately at this point, suggesting another vendor/part is like playing dice. You may stumble upon a part that is fully available in acceptable quantities right now, and discover a few months from now, once your design is complete and ready to go to production, that said part is no stock for months. It's a really bad situation.

Or, you can overstock it, if enough pieces are available at the moment. If you have the finances.

Agree, the TM4C1294NCPDT mentioned above has 933 global stock from TI, and a 35 week lead time. It could disappear overnight easily.
It looks like many companies are listing a similar ~April 2022 ETA.

You could still be screwed if ST values some part to produce first over the F407, but, I don't think any of us would be able to know that information.

[Scrts]

If you are willing to use Toshiba, Maxim or Renesas...

I work in automotive and we extensively use Renesas. We've been told (in advance) to start redesigning, because Renesas shortage is coming. Beware.

[luiHS]

 
NXP's i.MX RT series is a good choice, they are cheap and very powerful ARM microcontrollers (Cortex M7).

I am migrating all my designs from Kinetis MK66 (Cortex M4, 180Mhz) to i.MX RT1064 (Cortex M7, 600Mhz), I also bought quite a few RT1024s, but I prefer to start working with BGA because the solders in LQFP give me a lot of problems, I have to check them under a microscope.

Another good option is the STM32H7 series from ST, miraculously a few days ago I was able to get 100 pieces of the H747 but in LQFP208 because BGA without stock until 2022. In a few minutes the rest of the units in stock were sold out, someone is buying everything in quantity that is put on sale in the best known suppliers, if you are not attentive you run out of anything, this time I was faster.

In general there is a total shortage of many electronic components, especially microcontrollers.

[apurvdate]

In a few minutes the rest of the units in stock were sold out, someone is buying everything in quantity that is put on sale in the best known suppliers, if you are not attentive you run out of anything, this time I was faster.

In general there is a total shortage of many electronic components, especially microcontrollers.

Many HK & SG based online stores do that.
Last year before covid hit us we were developing with STM32G474RET6 - the one you find on their nucleo board.
On mouser, current stock is zero with 18K on order process. Its lead time is 53 weeks. But I see its available in volumes around 10K-20K with different HK based vendor warehouses.
Pile up all available stock from standard vendors & sell at premium is the business strategy.

This works best for parts nearing End of Production cycle. People are compelled to buy obsolete going parts at premium to keep existing orders in flow till their revised designs are tested & finalized.

[tom66]

People are scalping the market like crazy.

We saw 100 Zynq 7010's pop up on Farnell,  the ops director was quick enough to get his credit card out and buy them.    But half had been sold already.  Within maybe 5 minutes.

There are companies that are sniping for TI parts too.  TI are aware and don't care, they won't do anything about it.  But this is what happens when there is a market shortage, it becomes profitable to buy parts and sit on the inventory.

Some jokers have 13,000 BNO055's,  nominally a $4 chip, at first they were asking $122 each.   Their stock hasn't changed over the 3 months they've held them, and they've slowly dropped their price... but they're still asking $60/part.

[harerod]

I've used TM4C1294NCPDT in the past.  1MB flash, 256KB SRAM, ethernet, USB, all the standard SPI/I2C/etc.   It's relatively expensive, but still has adequate availability.  I think not as affected by the semiconductor shortage as TI fab it themselves.

This is the input that I was hoping for, thank you very much. I wasn't aware of this product line by TI. I had a look at the TI product website. In addition to that - would you mind describing your development setup?

- which IDE did you use, which OS?
- are IP resources like IDE and libraries (e.g. Ethernet stack) available free of charge?

[SiliconWizard]

TM4C series is nice. But I wouldn't be much more confident about availability in the next few months. A quick look at usual distributors shows some stock, or no stock with relatively long lead times, up to 52 weeks or so, indicating that TI may not be much better off than the others. Frankly it's very much like playing dice here. Stocking now while available looks like the only real guarantee.

[Bassman59]

I've used TM4C1294NCPDT in the past.  1MB flash, 256KB SRAM, ethernet, USB, all the standard SPI/I2C/etc.   It's relatively expensive, but still has adequate availability.  I think not as affected by the semiconductor shortage as TI fab it themselves.

This is the input that I was hoping for, thank you very much. I wasn't aware of this product line by TI. I had a look at the TI product website. In addition to that - would you mind describing your development setup?

- which IDE did you use, which OS?

I use the TI-provided Code Composer Studio, based on Eclipse, on macOS. It works.

- are IP resources like IDE and libraries (e.g. Ethernet stack) available free of charge?

Yes.

[tom66]

This is the input that I was hoping for, thank you very much. I wasn't aware of this product line by TI. I had a look at the TI product website. In addition to that - would you mind describing your development setup?

It's been a long time since I used this, so not really representative.

- which IDE did you use, which OS? 
uVision 4 on Windows, may the lord have mercy upon my soul.
I have thought about if I did this again I'd set up a gcc toolchain -- TI provide instructions and I believe free libraries.

- are IP resources like IDE and libraries (e.g. Ethernet stack) available free of charge?
Yes.  The library is called TivaWare and is rather good compared to other libraries.
There's no nonsense like STM's processors where there are four or five different libraries. TivaWare does them all. 
There's also extensive register documentation, if you're a bit fiddler.

[apurvdate]

- which IDE did you use, which OS?
- are IP resources like IDE and libraries (e.g. Ethernet stack) available free of charge?

Though TM4C123 & TM4C129 are both cortex M4 cores, these two separate product lines. TM4C129 are generally higher capability than TM4C123.
TI's Code composer studio is eclipse based & free, available for both windows & linux.
The libraries called TivaWare are also free. Only thing is one can't go down to the baremetal part of the library function through all the abstraction.

The reason we actually started developing on STM32G4 was longer lead times & random un-availability of TM4C123. 
By the time the changeover was done, pandemic hit and all the controllers are poof! 

[harerod]

Quote from: tom66 on Today at 08:13:56

...There's also extensive register documentation, if you're a bit fiddler.

That would be an accurate description of my work.
And thanks for all your other input.

[Alti]

Also consider how much each requirement costs.
Not only in terms of BOM but also in terms of design, supply chain and risks involved. By insisting on a uC with integrated ethernet you are rejecting 95% of the ARM market. With 100pin package this shrinks further. Only Cortex M3/M4? And ultimately you are left with four uCs, all out of stock.

Since this is a common topic for designers at the moment, I am looking forward to your thoughts.

Adding every single requirement costs money and when I hear about requirements like "ethernet" + "single chip solution" then I think about a smartwatch with magjack. Another words: this smells like ridiculous set of requirements for niche application.

[Jeroen3]

lcsc still has some 407's right now.
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F407VET6_C28730.html

They're just 3 times normal price.

Anyway, whatever you do. Make sure you have the parts in your hands first before you start porting the code.

[nudge]

I have a project with similar requirements (Ethernet, USB, SPI, I2C, Timers, >256KiB Flash) and the NXP LPC546xx series (LQFP-100) is what i use, but good luck finding stock

I had to respin the design to use the LPC540xx/LPC54S0xx series chips, they offer the same set of peripherals without the Flash (some parts don't have Ethernet so check the exact part numbers). This meant adding a QSPI flash chip and re-working the DFU/firmware update code, as well as optimising parts of the firmware to execute from RAM as the QSPI flash is much slower than the on-chip flash of the 546xx series devices (I could execute straight outta Flash before). Annoying, but means I'm able to continue to ship.

You can find details of the project here: https://cardinia.net/mini/
Schematics up at: https://github.com/nudge/cardinia-mini (MCU change from Rev.B -> Rev.C)

Good luck with finding a solution!

[Warhawk]

TI are aware and don't care, they won't do anything about it. 

Not true

[Jeroen3]

lcsc still has some 407's right now.
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F407VET6_C28730.html

And they're gone...

[SiliconWizard]

lcsc still has some 407's right now.
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F407VET6_C28730.html

And they're gone...

There are 20 right now.

[thm_w]

There are 20 right now.

Probably an order cancel stock adjustment or something, when he posted it was something like 2,000 pieces.