Risc-V + USB 3.0 + gigabit

[ataradov]

Having had to edit some FX2 8051 firmware very recently, I can tell you that it pretty much just works with SDCC. Also, the slow CPU doesn't matter much for the FX2's intended purpose since it's the DMA engine that does the real work.

Yes, that is if you only want a dumb FIFO. I also need some additional logic. And that 8051 is SLOW.

[NiHaoMike]

Yes, that is if you only want a dumb FIFO. I also need some additional logic. And that 8051 is SLOW.

Have you considered a low cost FPGA like ICE40 for that logic?

[ataradov]

Have you considered a low cost FPGA like ICE40 for that logic?

Yes, that's what I settled on. But that adds costs and complexity. So having an integrated chip that is accessible and easy to use would be nice. I see that thing being popular if they decide to release it widely.

[EverydayMuffin]

Have you considered a low cost FPGA like ICE40 for that logic?

Does ICE40 have a high-speed SERDES capable of USB 3.1 Gen 1 or Gen 2?

[ataradov]

Does ICE40 have a high-speed SERDES capable of USB 3.1 Gen 1 or Gen 2?

Not even close. But you would use any MCU for USB and FPGA for the capture logic. It is workable, but not ideal, since there is still a question of streaming the data into the MCU.

[EverydayMuffin]

Not even close. But you would use any MCU for USB and FPGA for the capture logic. It is workable, but not ideal, since there is still a question of streaming the data into the MCU.

So if you want to do USB 3.1 Gen1 (5Gbps) your options are:

• MCU/FPGA (no SERDES)  + Cypress FX3
Or
• FPGA (with 5G SERDES) + USB 3.1 Gen1 IP

And if you want to do USB 3.1 Gen2 (10Gbps) your only option is:

• FPGA (with 10G SERDES) + USB 3.1 Gen2 IP

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Bassman59]

Option for what? For small USB FS devices I'm pretty set on SAM D11. I'm done programming 8051 core or any other weird proprietary stuff. Screw that.

But USB FS is far too slow for a lot of things. USB HS is the key here.

You would think that more devices supported USB HS, but ... no. SAM3U, SAME70, LPC55S28/69, TM4C1294 (with external PHY), I think that's about it. The FTDI parts glued to a micro or FPGA could be interesting, but you can't set your own descriptors (you can't use it as a specific device class, you have to use the FTDI custom vendor class).

[NiHaoMike]

You would think that more devices supported USB HS, but ... no. SAM3U, SAME70, LPC55S28/69, TM4C1294 (with external PHY), I think that's about it. The FTDI parts glued to a micro or FPGA could be interesting, but you can't set your own descriptors (you can't use it as a specific device class, you have to use the FTDI custom vendor class).

There's also PIC32 but I don't have experience with ones that have USB 2.0 yet.

[Bassman59]

You would think that more devices supported USB HS, but ... no. SAM3U, SAME70, LPC55S28/69, TM4C1294 (with external PHY), I think that's about it. The FTDI parts glued to a micro or FPGA could be interesting, but you can't set your own descriptors (you can't use it as a specific device class, you have to use the FTDI custom vendor class).

There's also PIC32 but I don't have experience with ones that have USB 2.0 yet.

That's another bone I have to pick with vendors. They have all of these selection matrices you can sort through to pick the processor that you want. And when they say USB, they rarely indicate HS vs FS. So unless they call out HS specifically, I assume it's FS only.

[chickenHeadKnob]

Option for what? For small USB FS devices I'm pretty set on SAM D11. I'm done programming 8051 core or any other weird proprietary stuff. Screw that.

But USB FS is far too slow for a lot of things. USB HS is the key here.

You would think that more devices supported USB HS, but ... no. SAM3U, SAME70, LPC55S28/69, TM4C1294 (with external PHY), I think that's about it. The FTDI parts glued to a micro or FPGA could be interesting, but you can't set your own descriptors (you can't use it as a specific device class, you have to use the FTDI custom vendor class).

Stm32h7xx with external phy if we are talking about USB 2.0 480 Mbit, otherwise I've lost the trail in this conversation.

[ataradov]

External PHYs are not ideal. They take up minimum 12 pins. And just general board space and having to source and populate one more component.

[dmendesf]

There's also FT601 / FT602

Not even close. But you would use any MCU for USB and FPGA for the capture logic. It is workable, but not ideal, since there is still a question of streaming the data into the MCU.

So if you want to do USB 3.1 Gen1 (5Gbps) your options are:

• MCU/FPGA (no SERDES)  + Cypress FX3
Or
• FPGA (with 5G SERDES) + USB 3.1 Gen1 IP

And if you want to do USB 3.1 Gen2 (10Gbps) your only option is:

• FPGA (with 10G SERDES) + USB 3.1 Gen2 IP

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[asmi]

External PHYs are not ideal. They take up minimum 12 pins. And just general board space and having to source and populate one more component.

STM32F733 series has on-chip OTG HS phy.

[SiliconWizard]

Option for what? For small USB FS devices I'm pretty set on SAM D11. I'm done programming 8051 core or any other weird proprietary stuff. Screw that.

But USB FS is far too slow for a lot of things. USB HS is the key here.

You would think that more devices supported USB HS, but ... no. SAM3U, SAME70, LPC55S28/69, TM4C1294 (with external PHY), I think that's about it. The FTDI parts glued to a micro or FPGA could be interesting, but you can't set your own descriptors (you can't use it as a specific device class, you have to use the FTDI custom vendor class).

You have a range of them in the STM32 line too. Most will require an external PHY though, very few integrate one in the F7 line (see post above.)

As to FTDI parts, indeed you can't provide your own descriptors (just configure a few elements such as VID/PID, max current, etc.) They are fine if what you need is just stream data in bulk mode, and that still covers a lot of needs. They also have an HID device, but I've never used it. Speaking of FTDI, they also have MCUs with embedded USB HS controllers (FT9xx line).

[ali_asadzadeh]

It seems the chips can be found on Taobao, @ around 25RMB, also they have released the chip datasheet, has anybody has done anything with this puppy?

[ataradov]

By "datasheet" you mean that 120 page document in Chinese? That is not nearly enough to make a good use of the device. Also, Taobao is not the best place place.

I'll wait until there is better documentation, or at least a better place to buy them.

[ali_asadzadeh]

I think maybe if we request them from lcsc they would stuck them, for the datasheet, I do not think something bigger comes out with in 1-2 year, since Chinese parts always have low pages datasheets.

[ataradov]

That's just too many issues to resolve for unclear benefit. The small datasheet makes the part unusable, there is just too much guessing. Does not even matter that it is in Chinese, there is information missing.

I would be up for designing a board and poking at it a bit, but having to order from taobao does it for me. I'm not ordering from a site I can't understand.

[SuperFungus]

I'm also pretty interested in this wch part.

Just to add to the list of USB HS micros, there is also the LPC4330 which has some io and dma features which makes it pretty compelling even vs things like the fx2