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Electronics => Microcontrollers => Topic started by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 03:39:31 am

Title: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 03:39:31 am
I've been thinking, based on my own experience of this section wouldn't it be an idea to put categories in for the main popular MCU's or development platforms ?. I have been using AVR quite a lot but i end up posting on the AVR freaks forum as having this mishmosh of MCU section i tend to not take it seriously and i can see that being a large branch of electronics the section will fill and flow fast so people coming in to answer questions might miss them or not be bothered to read all through the stuff.

So if we had subsections then we know where to post and where to go to answer questions and this stay organized.

So question is should we have subforums for each major category. Naturally you can suggest the categories and we'd probably need to retain a general section for those odments.

My feelings would be:

C programming
AVR
PIC
ARM
Arduino
Picaxe
MSP430
etc......
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: diyaudio on April 05, 2014, 04:25:10 am
Not a bad idea. however it means more administrator moderation people are generally lazy to even use the search feature.  so its a toss.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 04:27:43 am
I'm not sure what you mean. From a moderation point of view it is the same, it just makes browsing easier and people who want to hangout discussion a particular micro will "have a place" to do so.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: diyaudio on April 05, 2014, 05:33:44 am
I'm not sure what you mean. From a moderation point of view it is the same, it just makes browsing easier and people who want to hangout discussion a particular micro will "have a place" to do so.

not when you a single admin person and lazy people are posting ARM stufff inside PIC topics msp430 topics inside ATMEL topics. you just have the same problem all over again.

Yeah thats what im saying.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 05:38:00 am
What are you on about ? I've hardly posted in the section at all. And compartmentalizing the various MCU families will help prevent this won't it ? your just arguing my point.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: diyaudio on April 05, 2014, 06:11:41 am
What are you on about ? I've hardly posted in the section at all. And compartmentalizing the various MCU families will help prevent this won't it ? your just arguing my point.

why you getting angry im not the admin dude, lol gizzz.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: pa2ees on April 05, 2014, 06:16:15 am
I'm for dividing up the MCUs.  Add a 'general' section for those questions you just don't know where to put.  I personally like PIC, and don't particularly like arduino (don't hate, I have my reasons), and I would like a place to 'hang out' with threads relevant to my interests.

 - Erik
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 06:37:26 am
What are you on about ? I've hardly posted in the section at all. And compartmentalizing the various MCU families will help prevent this won't it ? your just arguing my point.

why you getting angry im not the admin dude, lol gizzz.

Do you speak English, everything you say is totally nonsensical give us a clue?
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 06:40:39 am
I'm for dividing up the MCUs.  Add a 'general' section for those questions you just don't know where to put.  I personally like PIC, and don't particularly like arduino (don't hate, I have my reasons), and I would like a place to 'hang out' with threads relevant to my interests.

 - Erik

Yes that's basically my point although I'm more interested in AVR but I wouldn't want to mix it with Arduino has AVR would discuss things like actually setting the chip up and its registers whereas AVR would be more about higher-level programming.

But I would also like to see a general section on programming in C, this is one of the problems I had with AVR freaks I posted in the GCC section thinking that was right and got told to go stick it in the AVR section which made no sense because I was purely talking about C programming and writing functions with no relation to the actual microcontroller itself. Of course if there are other languages they could do with a section to although to be honest I haven't actually seen a successful basic language from microcontrollers but perhaps there are others.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: hans on April 05, 2014, 06:52:01 am
Apparently I'm one of the few who voted 0.

I like the way it is now. It sounds like more of a clutter to keep up with with less overview. I am still amazed people are scared of on subjects when they would read the word "Arduino". "No I don't want to read it" - that's fine but then don't open the thread. I wouldn't shop for Arduino stuff, but sure there are some interesting projects on the platform.

Most importantly; if this subforum has on average 5 active topics per day I am pretty sure each subforum will feel completely deserted except for 2-3 subforums (ARM/AVR/PIC) which will get all the attention. Does that motivate instead?

Moreover, I think the same philosophy should be applied to other forums as well. Should test equipment be divided? There are so many out there.. Bench scopes, USB scopes, handheld DMMs, bench DMMs, power supplies, function generators, RF equipment, optical equipment, power equipment (dummy loads etc), component testers, etc, etc etc.
Or divide up into brands? For the Rigol/Tek/Agilent fanboys.

I know the struggles (as I have ran some forums myself before) and what bigger sites have done to tackle this is have tags to each thread and let people browse on those. For example, questions on stackexchange often are tagged with maybe: embedded, C++, template, ARM, GCC. If people want to read all embedded threads, that's possible, but also narrow it down to ARM. I don't think SMF forums has this capability, though.. :(

Too many subforums with little posts just makes the place feel deserted and uninterested, IMO.
Also, it would be a clutter for me personally to daily check each subforum on here, as I would have to open yet more tabs :-/O
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 07:00:55 am
yes there is that side but when you have something specific like an MCU family theres not a lot to mix up so having a specific section for the more popular ones will help people find what they want and have somewhere dedicated to chat in, I'm hoping that once we categorise things it will attract more people. I see the mess that it is now so just head over to AVR freaks because i feel that there is more help there and knowledge, but that may be because there are a few popular pic or other mcu topics on the go so the avr stuff has been pushed to the bottom or off the page. If people know they can come straight in to a familair section they may be willing to hang out a bit more and so we will become more popular as a forum for mcu discussion of all kinds. It would then lend itself more to thinks like people writing tutorials or helpful posts that can be stickied in each MCU section so that common questions are answered.

Yes you right about the tests equipment, if you really think so then setup a poll there too and see what people think and if the reponse is positive Dave will start setting up categories there no doubt.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: JTR on April 05, 2014, 07:21:04 am
Please leave it alone. There is just no NEED to fix it, it aint broke. If there were a lot of posts then sure, but there isn't. What we have is a gentle stream of broad base micro stuff and it is actually a nice way to have your insights expanded. I would not typically look at an ARM forum but if there is an odd post here and there in front of me then it is easy, recreational click bait. This forum is unique like that and is just to small to be further divided at this time.

Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: rsjsouza on April 05, 2014, 07:27:16 am
+1 for leaving the section alone. I am interested in the subject "microcontrollers" in general and love to browse through the overall discussions. Also, IMHO I am unsure that every device has enough demand to create a subsection for it - in other words, some subsections may be very void of discussions and therefore not be very visible... :)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 07:29:05 am
Please leave it alone. There is just no NEED to fix it, it aint broke. If there were a lot of posts then sure, but there isn't.

Maybe that's because it's generic. Like i said I don't get the impression that it's a serious section so i personally go elsewhere, perhaps more feel like me that it's not being taken seriously enough.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: pa2ees on April 05, 2014, 09:09:54 am
I'm torn.  On the one hand, compartmentalizing it would be great and handy for getting to the discussions you want.  one for each popular micros, and a catch-all for the rest.  I do like the idea of a C/Assembly forum (yes I still code some of my micros in assembly). 

On the other hand, if the tags would work, that would be great (kinda like Gmail, which rocks), but would you have to tag your own post? some people could get abusive with that, and others wouldn't know what to do.

And finally on the third hand, breaking it up might make it quite sparse, and seem deserted, as some have commented. 


Hmmmmm... I'd say

1. tags, if they are easy and seamless,
2. split it up otherwise.
3. I think the forum has room to grow, and I don't think we should leave it as is.

 - Erik
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on April 05, 2014, 10:03:48 am
Yeah, we could have C and Arduino and ATMEGA... wait, maybe that should go together, Microchip, Atmel (wait the other way around since Atmel is better), STMicro, Cypress nah that is the new kid, to the bottom with him. then FPGA , nah lets' split them Xilinx, Altera, z80, 80C51, C++, ASM, VHDL, Verilog,  DSP nah just put blackfin since that's what everyone uses. ARM, Erlang, Haskell ... nah FPGA's using functional programming "unheard off!!!" the lunacy! Freescale, Mips ... TI, do thy even do chips anymore?? Toshiba? yamaha? uff got a headache already.

.. nah, leave it alone.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 06:44:27 pm
Well we don't need to categorise down to the last part number, I'd put things that belong separate seperate. Like not too much point in putting arduino and AVR together as on avr it's more about the chips and programming them in C an arduino section will end up dealing more with actually writing basic code or using the arduino functions and libraries and people wanting to talk avr will get fed up with it. Sure we still need a catchall category and things will need broadly putting together in some cases. I doesn't have to happen all at once and suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Christe4nM on April 05, 2014, 10:26:16 pm
I haven't voted yet: on one side I think dividing is not necessary (yet), on the other side I think the following would be worth considering:

Keep a general section similar to the "General PCB/EDA/CAD Discussions" and add only 2 child boards being:
1) MCU related (i.e. MCU's, programming languages, compilers, MCU dev kits etc.)
2) Programmable Logic (i.e. FPGA, CPLD, Verilog, VHDL, FPGA/CPLD dev kits etc.)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: GeoffS on April 05, 2014, 10:39:18 pm
The fewer subforums the better, less work for moderators to relocate misplaced posts.
The split between MCU and FPGA sounds like a good one.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 10:45:36 pm
yea like the topic in this seciotn asking for PCB software recomendation. If people are going to be dumb they will. Yes certainly separate FPGA from MCU, it's so vague at the moment people seem to feel anything goes anyway.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: BravoV on April 05, 2014, 10:45:45 pm
Voted no, reason, still not enough traffic per day to warrant multiple sections, I can still can read and see posts made few days ago in a single screen. (Default forum's setting on threads/screen)

From the moderation perspective for the forum as the whole, I think the "Test Equipment" section needs more considerations and thoughts in dividing into sections instead of here, cause interesting threads/posts usually will be drowned at the bottom so fast and like they're gone in there.  ::)

My 2 drops of solder worth.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 05, 2014, 10:47:16 pm
well like I said I was hoping it would attarct more MCU discussion, if it's in a generic section peolple feel their questions won't be taken seriolusly and will go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: nuhamind2 on April 05, 2014, 11:42:34 pm
+1 for MCU and programmable logic subforum
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: diyaudio on April 06, 2014, 05:30:46 am
The fewer subforums the better, less work for moderators to relocate misplaced posts.
The split between MCU and FPGA sounds like a good one.

+1 down voted.

The diversity makes the forum feel more dynamic, and skilled people from various backgrounds offer alternative solutions and inputs. 
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: GiskardReventlov on April 06, 2014, 05:54:07 am
MCU/FPGA subs makes some sense.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Crazy Ape on April 06, 2014, 06:28:29 am
MCU/FPGA subs makes some sense.

Until you bring up the ZPU, not sure where that would fit best. On top of the ZPU you can run ZPUino, where would it go?
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 06, 2014, 06:34:57 am
We don't have to categorise too much and there would remain a general category, what I'm thinking is making dedicated places for things like pic, avr and msp430 that have hundreds of parts in their ranks and potentially if we looked like we are taking mcu discussion seriously we would get more discussions on them and more people over to the forum talking about them and more means most like more skilled people able to help with specific mcu's.

Sure we don't get much talk at the moment, I wonder why.... like i said I don't bother to post in it as i gewt the feel it's so generic I won't get an answer or a quick one.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: SL4P on April 22, 2014, 11:48:53 am
...don't have to categorise too much and there would remain a general category, what I'm thinking is making dedicated places for things like pic, avr and msp430 that have hundreds of parts in their ranks ....
That's the way I'd go - to separate completely unrelated topics that are out of context in each others sandbox.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: spudboy488 on April 24, 2014, 09:46:05 pm
I'm new to the party but one way to do it is to prefix the subject title with the category/family/etc. For example, a new subject can be:

    [PIC] I'm having trouble with the UART

or

    [AVR] Programming issue

As someone else mentioned, there's not enough traffic to separate but having a "gentleman's agreement" on how to create a new thread would make it a bit easier for those interested in PICS to find the relative entries. If there is no subject prefix, it is a general interest MCU item.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on April 24, 2014, 10:02:27 pm
not everyone would honor that. I know traffic is low, I am one of those that does not use the section as I get the impression not many people may be knowledgeable of my MCU. My idea was that by making it a bit more serious and having some of the major brands categorized would help people feel like using the MCU section more.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: poorchava on April 28, 2014, 10:58:59 pm
I for diviving the section. My ideas would be: AVR, PIC, ARM, MSP430, others mcu, programmable logic.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: linux-works on April 29, 2014, 05:29:29 am
What are you on about ? I've hardly posted in the section at all. And compartmentalizing the various MCU families will help prevent this won't it ? your just arguing my point.

why you getting angry im not the admin dude, lol gizzz.

Do you speak English, everything you say is totally nonsensical give us a clue?

(OT: was that a scene from pulp fiction or something?)

;)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Rigby on May 18, 2014, 01:37:57 pm
I'm not sure why you left it up to a vote... It makes sense, nothing is lost, people with answers on a specific arch have a new place to hang, and people with questions on a specific arch have an easier time looking at already answered stuff.

Don't let the hens run the henhouse.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2014, 04:37:50 pm


Don't let the hens run the henhouse.

well i was told to put it to the masses by Dave, then I have other forum members telling me I'm using my moderator powers to push an agenda............ no helping some people.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: SeanB on May 18, 2014, 05:11:48 pm
Simon, the only privilege of any admin, that you are bent over both ways. good to have the poll, even if some are unhappy, it brings both pro and con arguments out. Some are even interesting. Some might even be right.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2014, 05:14:47 pm
I have no problem with the poll, but resent people telling me that I'm an overbearing moderator and that I'm pushing my agenda just because i asked a question like any other user could have. And yes I have the power to make it a sticky myself but had someone else posted a similar question I would have made it a sticky anyway. At some point I'll probably remove the sticky and let it sink.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: SeanB on May 18, 2014, 05:19:28 pm
Not overbearing, I do see very few of your edits, mostly to make nice.

Carry on asking questions, it teaches everybody. Different points of view are always useful.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2014, 05:22:16 pm
Not overbearing, I do see very few of your edits, mostly to make nice.



Indeed most of what we do as moderators is removing spam or removing openly offensive posts that there would be no argument about, we avoid editing a post if possible but rather than remove a post that is a little contentious it is preferable to just remove any offending sections and in that case we make it clear what is being done and why  and that we are acting with moderator hats on.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: GeoffS on May 18, 2014, 05:23:40 pm
It's been a useful poll, unlike most polls that get created! Even if nothing comes of it, it was a valid question to ask.
Ignore the nay sayers, I know I do  ;)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2014, 05:31:04 pm
yes although I'm surprised at some of the answers although having seen some of the views about moderators it would seem that even on a lightly moderated forum like this people still hate the establishment because that's just the way they are so trying to make an improvement would be an ideal time for them to have a go and feel good about it. I think responses may have been slightly different if a user had asked the question. There is democracy and there is "me!, me!, me!, me!, me!, me!......"
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on May 18, 2014, 06:41:41 pm
yes although I'm surprised at some of the answers although having seen some of the views about moderators it would seem that even on a lightly moderated forum like this people still hate the establishment because that's just the way they are so trying to make an improvement would be an ideal time for them to have a go and feel good about it. I think responses may have been slightly different if a user had asked the question. There is democracy and there is "me!, me!, me!, me!, me!, me!......"

I don't think it would have matter if it was a user. Lines on MCUs, FPGAs, ARM, SoC, etc.. are getting blurrier, you can get any combination of those. Also I wouldn't have known about the Cypress chips (with programmable logic) even if they are ARM Cortex-M0 if we didn't have this section as one. This sub forum is one of the ones with less traffic, therefore it got my down vote.

Also we are missing a processor sub-forum, I mean, where does the 68000 belong to? It's still been used for many real time applications but it has no representation. There are also a bunch of ARM SoC that are going 64 bit where do they belong to? I mean they are embedded systems that keep adding complexity and more features and still battery powered. Not easy lines to divide.

One thing though, maybe the friction you feel is because of your choice of words. For example saying "this people" on your post above.

No matter what I truly appreciate the job you guys do. I know it's hard to do and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2014, 06:50:47 pm
I know there are more complex ramifications but i was hoping to help beginners like myself have a place to start, instead they come to this section and see a sea of chips and no classification, if we had the basics categorised like AVR, PIC, MSP430 and others I probably don't know about we would have a better starting point. sure there will be room for general discussion on mixed and advanced types but if i wanted to read through what is being asked and answered now about AVR or PIC I can't without a lot of work, so I'm not going to go looking for people to help and i'm not sure there are people hanging out here who can help me with my problems. once we start to make order we would probably see other topics stand out as needing a place of their own like your processors, we could have a section discussing processors generically after all like you say they differ from MCU's but having a category for every last one would be pointless.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Stonent on May 24, 2014, 11:13:22 pm
Maybe we can just get rid of the apostrophe finally and "FPGA's" will become "FPGAs" :)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Rigby on May 25, 2014, 12:30:57 am
+1 for proper apostrophe usage
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on May 25, 2014, 12:34:49 am
The start a new poll ;)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Andy Watson on May 25, 2014, 12:53:51 am
No need for a poll. That apostrophe is wrong.  :)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Harvs on June 04, 2014, 11:07:58 am
So do we need to keep this as a sticky?  It just seems to be taking up room at the top of the list for a topic that seems to be settled (or is everyone just taking a break for a while?)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on June 04, 2014, 09:47:36 pm
Why are you concerned ? apparently no one uses this section of the forum so who gives a rats ass what it looks like, infact of the thousands of members registered not even 100 have answered. Last time i asked a question it took 2 days to get an answer. We might as well delete the whole forum judging by most peoples responses.......
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Harvs on June 04, 2014, 11:13:55 pm
Why are you concerned ?

Because on my Android phone with tapatalk only 4 items show up on the page at a time.

apparently no one uses this section of the forum so who gives a rats ass what it looks like, infact of the thousands of members registered not even 100 have answered. Last time i asked a question it took 2 days to get an answer. We might as well delete the whole forum judging by most peoples responses.......

Well I guess that's one way of looking at it.  I guess if I took that view with my open source projects posted on this forum and separate websites I probably should just stop now and delete them all from the internet.  Really it happens all the time that I'll post something complete that I've worked on, sometimes I get nothing back, sometimes a brief comment or three and once on this forum I've had a quite outrageous personal attack when I posted a solid design.

But that's just the internet...

edit:

That actually sounded a bit rough and was not my intent.  I personally really do appreciate the work you guys do, which as far as I know is for no financial gain.

I saw this come up at the time, and didn't respond other than to vote, because I personally had no strong opinion either way.  That, and to be perfectly honest, pretty much anything you post on this forum will end up with someone bored deciding the want to take exception to it.  So I don't post of a lot of things because I simply can't be bothered with an argument.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: clarkzh on June 06, 2014, 05:41:06 pm
I do agree that we categorise this section base on the brand of MCU
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: TinkeringSteve on June 28, 2014, 05:09:38 am
Is this poll hi-active or low-active?
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on June 28, 2014, 05:43:58 am
haha, congratulations for being the first to ask, I expected it sooner. 1 = yes 0 = no, so yes High active I guess
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Rigby on June 28, 2014, 01:17:24 pm
Is this poll hi-active or low-active?

+1.  Love that question.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: mrflibble on June 29, 2014, 12:13:30 am
Is this poll hi-active or low-active?

+1.  Love that question.

Heh. Yesterday I felt very mature and such that I didn't reply with a "Yes." when I read that question.

As for:
Why are you concerned ? apparently no one uses this section of the forum so who gives a rats ass what it looks like, infact of the thousands of members registered not even 100 have answered. Last time i asked a question it took 2 days to get an answer. We might as well delete the whole forum judging by most peoples responses.......

Can't speak for the rest, but I only give a very small rodent's derriere about it. I voted 0, but should there had been more options I'd have gone with something like 0.45. Maybe there just aren't any strong feelings about this point, and as such not that many votes? :-//

As for the sticky, IMO might as well un-sticky it. The way I see it it is in the category of "executive decision made about the forum". There's been a vote, it's been decided to keep the MCU section as one, and that was that.

Or keep it if you feel like it, I don't feel too strongly about that one either. ;D I usually browse this forum on 1920x1200 and use the mousewheel to scroll past stuff in the top of the page. But for users where pixels are at a premium it might help to minimize the clutter.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Antscran on July 05, 2014, 07:46:52 am
I've been thinking, based on my own experience of this section wouldn't it be an idea to put categories in for the main popular MCU's or development platforms ?. I have been using AVR quite a lot but i end up posting on the AVR freaks forum as having this mishmosh of MCU section i tend to not take it seriously and i can see that being a large branch of electronics the section will fill and flow fast so people coming in to answer questions might miss them or not be bothered to read all through the stuff.

So if we had subsections then we know where to post and where to go to answer questions and this stay organized.

So question is should we have subforums for each major category. Naturally you can suggest the categories and we'd probably need to retain a general section for those odments.

My feelings would be:

C programming
AVR
PIC
ARM
Arduino
Picaxe
MSP430
etc......

Hi all,

Just joined here and microcontrollers and interfacing electronics is my main interest, so thought I would check this section out.  Read this post so thought I would offer my 2 pence worth.

This is my newbie forum first impression, but it looks a bit of a mess and I would have to agree with the author. 

Even sorting them into manufacturer threads would be a start, you only need to look at something like Texas Instruments, or other manufacturers support forums for a little inspiration.

Ant
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 05:08:38 pm
unfortunately Ant many people just like to dissagree with me, some fear change and i think some think that by dissagreeing they are suddenly experts, your comment is exactly why I suggested categorizing
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: jancumps on July 05, 2014, 05:32:33 pm
I voted no because i 'd rather not have it split up. :)
No fear or disagreeing involved.
It's a vote so I voted my fafourite choise.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 05:36:35 pm
if that is really what you want, I just find it a mess that you would need to sift through, I'm currently learning one brand of MCU, it would be nice to just pop into the atmel section and see what is being talked about before posting my own question just in case I double post, no chance with things as they are, and likewise the day I do have enough knowledge to help I'm not going to go through pages of threads to sift out the atmel ones where i can help someone and same will apply for any brand / major family.

Some have said that there is no point in categorizing it because it's stagnant, I wonder why it's stagnant......... it's a self perpetuating thing.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: jancumps on July 05, 2014, 05:42:34 pm
if that is really what you want,...
yes. I would not have voted a '0' if that wasn't what I wanted. I understand that others prefer it differently.
Note: you only have to convince 3 more yay-voters and the outcome is in your favour :)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on July 05, 2014, 05:47:41 pm
Same here no disagreement no fear of change, I was presented a choice and gave mine, not to feel superior or anything like that just a choice.

Whatever happens I will adapt but has nothing to do with you presenting the concept, just giving my non expert choice.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 05:48:42 pm
well the poll has been a bit pointless because there have been so few responses and it's a tie anyway although with so few responses it's not like it represents most forum members. It comes back to the fact that I originally suggested it to Dave and it should have been for him to decide but he asked me to create the poll, the result is we are still at square one few care either way so it's up to Dave to make a decision for himself.

I personally have been using other MCU forums because I don't find there is enough movement on this section to get a fair chance of a good answer, no doubt others feel the same which is why it's so rarely used which is why i felt something needed doing and suggested it direct to Dave for him to decide, then we tried to be democratic about it........
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on July 05, 2014, 05:52:23 pm
Not everyone is into MCUs or FPGAs so they might not want to come here, another thing is that if the result agrees with their opinion they won't vote leaving it status quo.

Are there other polls that had a lot of participation?
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 05:54:15 pm
so if you like your current government you don't come out to vote to keep them in? wonder why the opposition got in....
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on July 05, 2014, 05:56:48 pm
Well, they can see the result and can retain their vote, not quite the same thing.

Edit: look at danny's frequency meter, sure there is interest in some things in this section, but few go over 1000 views, but then again, some do.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 06:18:01 pm
no you missed the point entirely, a non vote is a non vote, what you seem to be saying is that a non vote is a vote for things as they are. I mean if that is how you yanks run your democracy who am I to interfere ;)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on July 05, 2014, 06:25:00 pm
That escalated for no reason.

I meant that usually on a vote you can't see the current results like in these polls, so a non vote is really not a non vote but a reserved one.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 06:27:26 pm
oh i see, but still a non vote is not making a point either way
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on July 05, 2014, 06:34:19 pm
Circumstances might change so no reason to cast it just yet if the current trend is to your agreement. But if in the future things change you still have the vote to sway it your way.

Again, what is the participation of other polls, and by that I mean about the structure of the forum not user ones. Did they have more responses?
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Antscran on July 05, 2014, 07:59:17 pm
Some have said that there is no point in categorizing it because it's stagnant, I wonder why it's stagnant......... it's a self perpetuating thing.

I think this sums it up and was looking how to vote, but can see it has closed and also noticed quite a small number of people voting.  It would be nice to see this number change  as saves jumping from forum to forum depending on which microcontroller your working on.  I have read some good posts on the forum as a whole particularly to do with oscilloscope choices.

"If you build it, they will come"  :)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 05, 2014, 10:09:41 pm


"If you build it, they will come"  :)

At last, someone who gets my point !
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Rigby on July 06, 2014, 02:48:44 am
Build it.  Sometimes you just have to make the change independent of public opinion.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on July 06, 2014, 02:50:14 am
Well tell Dave that
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Rigby on July 06, 2014, 02:53:07 am
I lost his phone number.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: jancumps on July 06, 2014, 05:32:03 am
I lost his phone number.
if you order a uCurrent, it's on the shipment label ;)
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: SeanB on July 06, 2014, 06:41:34 pm
I lost his phone number.
if you order a uCurrent, it's on the shipment label ;)

There is no phone plugged into that socket, it is on the bench getting cleaned. Was on the last Teardown Tuesday.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: tggzzz on September 03, 2014, 08:15:10 am
I've been thinking, based on my own experience of this section wouldn't it be an idea to put categories in for the main popular MCU's or development platforms ?.
It would help to split into
because those are sufficiently different and non-overlapping categories (just about only the Zynq is in both).

Any attempt to create other taxonomies runs into the problem of which parameter is dominant. For example should the top level be manufacturer or word size or..., and should problems with C on an 8 bit CPU/MCU be discussed in the CPU/MCU or language ghetto?
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: tggzzz on September 03, 2014, 09:32:23 am
I've been thinking, based on my own experience of this section wouldn't it be an idea to put categories in for the main popular MCU's or development platforms ?.
It would help to split into
  • FPGA and Verilog/VHDL/other HDLs
  • Processors and C/other HLLs
because those are sufficiently different and non-overlapping categories (just about only the Zynq is in both).

Any attempt to create other taxonomies runs into the problem of which parameter is dominant. For example should the top level be manufacturer or word size or..., and should problems with C on an 8 bit CPU/MCU be discussed in the CPU/MCU or language ghetto?

This thread topic seems to come around sufficiently regularly that there should be a sticky thread for it.

I have two objections, largely stated above, that I am opposed to anything that gives succor to the category nazis. Which is strictly not to say I think the OP had this intention. It always seems to spring forth out of the best of intentions. Which is probably why it is a perennial topic.

The other is the minimal practical benefit. I and, from prior threads, apparently many others also read new posts from the unread posts since last logon screen where categories are irrelevant.

Threads need  titles created to help search for them. A significant number don't and this is the only area where rigidly designed and enforced categories would make some benefit. However slight I may think it would be.

If categories are created then they should only ever be at a high level conceptual level. for example "Repair", "Test Equipment" where a topic such as repair of a oscilloscope which could be argued for either category is a relatively benign category offence in any reasonable persons view.

A more esoteric concern is the minority I would classify as "Fanboys" who from time to time like to belittle those who use devices and platforms to which they have a religious objection. Examples would be Arduino, Rasperry Pi, Windows and there are others. So I hope that by not for example splitting Arduino off from Atmel they might be exposed to more open minded tolerant people. I don't mean to suggest these issues are solved by broad general categories but neither are they exacerbated.

So if you are going to make narrow(er) categories, please choose wisely.
I think that is a long exposition of my last paragraph; as such I agree with it.

However FPGAs and MCUs have such widely differing and disjoint characteristics that they could be separated without loss. Ditto HDLs and HLLs - where the superficial similarity causes much confusion to beginners.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on September 03, 2014, 04:05:06 pm
I'm not looking to over categorize, but lets face it where do most people go for help with an MCU, oh yea a dedicated forum. I do use AVR freaks and when i was using PIC I went to the pic forums.

So I think it stands to reason to broadly categorize uC's based on manufacturer as this is the main automatic classification as their assembly languages will be different, the tools will be different and they all have their own architecture particularities.

Not many people are familiar with so many uC's so if they come on here with a view to help people they have to rumage around to find topics they can help with instead of pulling up the section they are knowledgeable in.

Hopefully it would encourage more use of the section, at the moment it's an amateurish mess in my opinion.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on September 03, 2014, 04:25:46 pm
I'm not looking to over categorize, but lets face it where do most people go for help with an MCU, oh yea a dedicated forum. I do use AVR freaks and when i was using PIC I went to the pic forums.

But when it takes you 3 days for showing the source in here you can't expect a quick helpful turnaround can you?
Once you posted the actual code things moved along way faster. So its not the forum split that is hurting this.

BTW you posted the code on the 1st and you never left feedback if you resolved the issue.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/atmel-studio-compiler-errors/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/atmel-studio-compiler-errors/)

But if AVR Freaks helped you and you replied there on the success, a link on the topic closure would be nice.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on September 03, 2014, 04:54:14 pm
So why don't you post the above on my topic instead of this one, why are people making this a personal thing ? This topic was started long before the one you refer to and has nothing to do with it and I made the same point months ago. Everyone says that this section does not get much use, and it's no wonder, it's like having one huge box for all your resistors and then trying to find just one value.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on September 03, 2014, 05:15:28 pm
So why don't you post the above on my topic instead of this one, why are people making this a personal thing ? This topic was started long before the one you refer to and has nothing to do with it and I made the same point months ago. Everyone says that this section does not get much use, and it's no wonder, it's like having one huge box for all your resistors and then trying to find just one value.

Because I saw your post here stating that you'll rather go to AVR freaks, so I was wondering if your posts and responses here where totally useless since this such a half baked section of the forum.

I see people helping in here all the time but yet this 5 month old survey is still a sticky taking one more item from the rest of the first page topics.

Split it which ever way you want and be done with it, no need for the survey since it obviously is not going to change after all this time.

Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Simon on September 03, 2014, 05:29:29 pm
I made the suggestion to Dave, he said make a poll. Basically he needs to make his mind up either way. Personally and from what people have said this section is not used as much as the rest of the forum, yet it's a massive topic and one section can't cover it if there are whole dedicated forums out there for what I'm suggesting just becomes different sections.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: miguelvp on September 03, 2014, 06:06:03 pm
It's been 5 months!

give it up or get it on with it.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: Antscran on September 10, 2014, 06:42:06 am
I made the suggestion to Dave, he said make a poll. Basically he needs to make his mind up either way. Personally and from what people have said this section is not used as much as the rest of the forum, yet it's a massive topic and one section can't cover it if there are whole dedicated forums out there for what I'm suggesting just becomes different sections.

Simon,

I reckon you should pass it back to Dave and say the poll was inconclusive.  I would like to use this forum more on the microcontrollers side but seems muddled.  I will still use dedicated forums, but would be nice to contribute more here as well.
Title: Re: Should we categorise the MCU section ?
Post by: jmole on September 10, 2014, 07:54:32 am
Why not add a categorization based on the "message icon"?

Slickdeals forums do a similar thing, where you can tag a post in the Hot Deals forum as computer, TV, food, etc...