Suggestions for a microcontroller (general-purpose)

[PCB.Wiz]

• Real-time clock/counter
• USB programming (I guess almost everything uses this nowadays?)
• Programmer with ZIF socket

ZIF limits to not many...

Not sure which pinouts this supports - I think STC8H8K64U, and it seems some smaller DIP packages too?
STC/USB-Writer1A  - also has an ISP header out the side (for STC8051U etc UART pgm).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008202602411.html


Some info here
https://www.stcaimcu.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=11205
https://www.stcmicro.com/pdf/stc-tool-en.pdf


This is ZIF with STC8H8K64U DIP pinout
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006439568251.html

OR standard legacy pinout ZIF only, needs ISP board - should work with STC8051U
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004544800641.html

[rteodor]

So if some of y'all would be so kind as to point me to specific μprocessors and the required programmer for that chip, say on Amazon or some other vendor, I would really appreciate. Just some links to get me started.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005004895791296.html

The $8 "Kit 1" will be fine.

See Dave's video I pointed to above for a slightly fumbling quick start.

Instruction set reference:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uviu1nH-tScFfgrovvFCrj7Omv8tFtkp/view?usp=drive_link

You only need to read the Introduction, RV32I, RV32E, and Zicsr sections.

Well, I opened up that RISC-V PDF. Sorry, don't like the look of RISC programming at all. Too much for what I had in mind.
I think something more 8080-like would suit me better.

Thanks anyway.

I do not have any answer fo you, just asking: do you feel that a CISC arch might be more suitable for you ? I could see why an ASM programmer would be more efficient with CISC - less chanches of error and more efficient at writting code.
Do you prefer a MCU that does OoO (out-of order) execution or do you prefer to take care of the sequencing by yourself to get best performance ?
All in all, do you prefer that the hardware do things for you or you want to master it yourself ?

Also, why ZIF ? It sounds expensive. Modern/mainstream in-circuit flashers&debuggers can cost almost as a coffe in town.

[djsb]

Part 1 of PIC assembly language tutorial (PIC16F) by John Becker.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Electronics/00s/Everyday-Practical-Electronics-2003-04.pdf

and here is part 2

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Electronics/00s/Everyday-Practical-Electronics-2003-05.pdf

and part 3

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Electronics/00s/Everyday-Practical-Electronics-2003-06.pdf

I found these very useful when learning the basics of PIC assembly in 2010. I use C (CCS C) now. PIC's are useful because they have
many devices in DIP through hole packages. We use PIC16F819,PIC16F1847 (all 18 pin DIP) in our current embedded systems class. We are incorporating ESP32 for future use. I personally like the PI PICO, and it seems to be VERY popular. I would NOT attempt to try to understand the PICO ARM ISA unless forced by necessity.

[westfw]

A beginner has no need to go past RV32I

I seem to recall being shocked that some “expected” instructions didn’t show up till the “bit manipulation extension(s)” - the rotates, perhaps?

[mikeselectricstuff]

If you want a variety of parts in DIP then Microchip wins hands down - everything from an 8 bit PIC8 in DIP8 to 50MHz PIC32 with 64K Ram and 256K flash in DIP28 (also SO,SSO ,QFN & QFP). And the same IDE and programming hardware for all of them.

[brucehoult]

A beginner has no need to go past RV32I

I seem to recall being shocked that some “expected” instructions didn’t show up till the “bit manipulation extension(s)” - the rotates, perhaps?

There are an infinite number of instructions that you could add to an ISA. That's how they get complex and hard to learn. Just because something like rotates or a carry flag were common in 1970s ISAs doesn't mean they should be automatically included today. It needs to be demonstrated that they provide sufficient benefit to the system as a whole, not just save a few cycles on a specific micro-benchmark.

Rotates are seldom needed and not performance-critical in most code and can be very easily implemented in software as (x << n) | (x >> -n) which, given single-cycle shifts, is going to be just two to four clock cycles and a lot faster than the bit by bit rotates on many older CPUs.

Rotates are not in either the base RV32I instruction set or the B extension, but were added in the "Zbkb: Bit-manipulation for Cryptography" extension which does heavily use them.

[squadchannel]

If you want a variety of parts in DIP then Microchip wins hands down - everything from an 8 bit PIC8 in DIP8 to 50MHz PIC32 with 64K Ram and 256K flash in DIP28 (also SO,SSO ,QFN & QFP). And the same IDE and programming hardware for all of them.

yep, Microchip (Atmel) has a product line that encompasses even this niche market.

Chinese MCUs are cheaper, but I think they are inferior in terms of availability, software, and whether or not they have a community. I don't even know how long those MCU manufacturers will be around.
may be good for mass production.

[jpanhalt]

@mikeselectricstuff
Pic8?  I think you may mean the PIC10Fxxx, but they don't have a lot of pins.  The 12F series, e.g., 12F683 and 12F1840 have a lot of peripherals but are also limited in pins.*  They generally have only 8 pins, which allows 5I/O's and one I only.  I believe they have now been integrated into the code/instruction identical 16F family with 14-bit core, and more pins/ports.  That allows a page size of 2048, e.g., page 1 starts at 0x800.  The 18F are 16-bit core, 8-bit devices.  The have even larger page sizes, more instructions, and enhanced hardware math.

That entire group is pretty much designed for Assembly (MPASM or AS with MIcrochip's newer assemblers).  I was going to mention those lowly PIC's, but was embarrassed to do so considering the instruction sets available for other devices mentioned so far.  Nevertheless, with just 49 instructions in the 16F series and all the hardware capabilities, you can do a lot with them.

*I would ignore the 12F5xx devices that are 12-bit core, only 33 instructions, and no interrupts.  The 12F6xx have 35 instructions and interrupts, but I see no reason not to go to the 14-bit core devices (12F1xxx and 16F1xxx and later)  with 49 instructions and even more peripherals.

[Peabody]

I don't have experience with either, but wasn't the SX family that you already know intended as a PIC replacement?  I just wonder if you might be most at home with PIC.

[PCB.Wiz]

Let's say a guy who last worked with microcontrollers (a Ubicom SX-28) about a decade ago, and now wants to start playing with one again. Question is, which one?

I've thought about something like the AT-Tiny or equivalent. But there are so may choices available, it's quite confusing.

• USB programming (I guess almost everything uses this nowadays?)
• Programmer with ZIF socket

So what would y'all suggest? Oh, and $inexpensive$ would be nice.

This recent news applies to Microchip parts. For a HS-USB link, this is quite a good price, You can wire this to a ZIF of your choice.

https://edacafe.com/nbc/articles/1/2122692/Microchip-Technology-Releases-Versatile-MPLAB-PICkit-Basic-Debugger

MPLAB® PICkit™ Basic In-Circuit Debugger   USD/unit: $29.99

Broad Compatibility

• Supports PIC® and AVR® MCUs, dsPIC® DSCs and SAM Arm® Cortex®-M based MCUs and MPUs
  Simple Connectivity
  USB Type-C® interface for easy PC connection
  High-speed USB 2.0 interface with up to 480 Mbps data transfer
  

I did not see a device list, but this looks comprehensive list of interfaces. SPI should go back a long way.

[Analog Kid]

Welll, at this point, given the still-overwhelming array of choices facing me, I'm not sure what to say.
Part of me is thinking to just go ahead and buy one of those inexpen$ive μcs w/programmer and give it a spin; not much to lose but a bit of time spent learning a new assembly language.

I'll let go of my ZIF requirement, which assumes through-hole parts: as I wrote earlier, if I end up with a surface-mount part that'll be OK so long as it comes on a breakout board. I don't deal with any SMT parts myself.

I still tend towards the simpler, CISC, 80xx-like variety of μcs, like the SX-28 I used earlier (yes, I think it was sold as a PIC replacement). Rotates? probably don't need 'em. Don't need anything fancy like out-of-order execution, fancy caching, etc. Not about to build any speed-intensive devices here just yet.

If anyone cares to post links at this point, what I'd really prefer would be links to purchasable items on Amazon/Ali/electronics vendors sites, etc., rather than any Microchip or equivalent pages; I'd like to see what packages I can actually buy, how much they are and what they contain. Again, minimal needs here: μc, programmer and just enough software to upload code from Windows 7. A debugger would be icing on the cake.

[temperance]

Any ARM based controller will require quite a bit of code just to set an IO port H or L in assembly language. The reference manual for a simple ARM cortex controller is easily over 1K pages.

STM32F031 ref manual:
https://www.st.com/resource/en/reference_manual/rm0091-stm32f0x1stm32f0x2stm32f0x8-advanced-armbased-32bit-mcus-stmicroelectronics.pdf

-After the ARM core is setup by means of start up code in assembly or C and before any work can begin, you must setup the clock tree: page 99
-Complex interrupt controller
-DMA
-Complex GPIO: many things must be configured before you can do anything with them. Timers, ADC's, UART, SPI, I2C,... The complexity allows for more advanced things. Take a look at timer TIM1 at page 329 to get an idea. But you get a lot of timers in comparison to a simple 8 bit controller.

ATMEGA48 ref manual:
https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-7530-Automotive-Microcontrollers-ATmega48-ATmega88-ATmega168_Datasheet.pdf

-Simple to get going
-Simple interrupt controller
-Easy to use peripherals
-No DMA (as far as I know only the xMega has a DMA controller)

For simple things programmed in assembly my choice would be an 8 bit controller.

You asked for what's available:
Debugger: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/atatmel-ice

That together with an Arduino and microchip studio would work fine.

[Smokey]

...
If anyone cares to post links at this point, what I'd really prefer would be links to purchasable items on Amazon/Ali/electronics vendors sites, etc., rather than any Microchip or equivalent pages; I'd like to see what packages I can actually buy, how much they are and what they contain. Again, minimal needs here: μc, programmer and just enough software to upload code from Windows 7. A debugger would be icing on the cake.

... so you want to start a major open ended learning adventure with a new microcontroller (in the most difficult way possible using assembly) and presumably some actual projects in mind but you aren't even willing to put in the work to google where to buy the stuff people have been recommending to you?

If someone sends you a link of a thing to buy, are you going to ask they come to your house and set it up for you too?

[beginner_max]

Use STM32F103 bluepill, this is enough for the most and you can use any bigger later without new learning.
Use Mkiroe then you can use Basic, Pascal or C with the same GUI
I bought all old ones for avr and ARM Pascal and C
This is the easiest start and you can do all with that and you have a better GUI/RAD with many Units/Libs at ones with manuals and other look at mikroe.com, they have own boards too

[temperance]

Use STM32F103 bluepill, this is enough for the most and you can use any bigger later without new learning.
Use Mkiroe then you can use Basic, Pascal or C with the same GUI
I bought all old ones for avr and ARM Pascal and C
This is the easiest start and you can do all with that and you have a better GUI/RAD with many Units/Libs at ones with manuals and other look at mikroe.com, they have own boards too

From the original question:

I want to program in the μc's native assembly language, not C or C++.

[brucehoult]

...
If anyone cares to post links at this point, what I'd really prefer would be links to purchasable items on Amazon/Ali/electronics vendors sites, etc., rather than any Microchip or equivalent pages; I'd like to see what packages I can actually buy, how much they are and what they contain. Again, minimal needs here: μc, programmer and just enough software to upload code from Windows 7. A debugger would be icing on the cake.

... so you want to start a major open ended learning adventure with a new microcontroller (in the most difficult way possible using assembly) and presumably some actual projects in mind but you aren't even willing to put in the work to google where to buy the stuff people have been recommending to you?

If someone sends you a link of a thing to buy, are you going to ask they come to your house and set it up for you too?

I've already given purchase links for both RISC-V and 8051 boards, with USB programming, as OP is asking for.  Others have given other such links.

We've got ourselves either a 'tard or a troll.

[Smokey]

...
If anyone cares to post links at this point, what I'd really prefer would be links to purchasable items on Amazon/Ali/electronics vendors sites, etc., rather than any Microchip or equivalent pages; I'd like to see what packages I can actually buy, how much they are and what they contain. Again, minimal needs here: μc, programmer and just enough software to upload code from Windows 7. A debugger would be icing on the cake.

... so you want to start a major open ended learning adventure with a new microcontroller (in the most difficult way possible using assembly) and presumably some actual projects in mind but you aren't even willing to put in the work to google where to buy the stuff people have been recommending to you?

If someone sends you a link of a thing to buy, are you going to ask they come to your house and set it up for you too?

I've already given purchase links for both RISC-V and 8051 boards, with USB programming, as OP is asking for.  Others have given other such links.

We've got ourselves either a 'tard or a troll.

get yourself ready for an onsite day   He's probably going to make you pay your own travel expenses, and buy lunch!

[PCB.Wiz]

If anyone cares to post links at this point, what I'd really prefer would be links to purchasable items on Amazon/Ali/electronics vendors sites, etc., rather than any Microchip or equivalent pages; I'd like to see what packages I can actually buy, how much they are and what they contain. Again, minimal needs here: μc, programmer and just enough software to upload code from Windows 7. A debugger would be icing on the cake.

I dug some more into that STC USB-Writer1A US$21.50 on Aliexpress = ZIF + ISP connector
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008202602411.html
Software : https://www.stcai.com/gjrj  has English option.




That ZIF STC USB-Writer1A is relatively new, but looking in the 2025 device data sheets, it seems to have DIPxx support in the ZIF for pretty much all their new/active families of STC8G, STC8H, STC12H, Aixx, added ~Dec 2024.

That covers most of the modern lcsc STC MCU DIP parts.  https://www.lcsc.com/products/Microcontrollers-MCU-MPU-SOC_11329.html?brand=151

STC8051U-34K64-PDIP40
STC8H8K64U-45I-PDIP40
STC8H8K64U-45I-SKDIP28
STC12H1K28-36I-SKDIP28
STC12H1K28-36I-DIP20  << this one has AT89LP2052/4052(2051) pinout*, but adds 10b ADC & 1.19V 1% VREF, and faster core, more RAM/Flash, 24MHz/32k Xtal Osc and RTC, PCA, PWM...
STC8G1K08-38I-DIP20
STC8G1K17-38I-DIP16
STC8G1K17A-36I-DIP8

I think STC's crystal based MCU writers can auto-trim the RCOSC at program time, (eg after reflow) it then specs to 0.3% at 25'C and -0.88%~+1.05% -20~+65
- not as good as a crystal, but good for MCU RCOSC.
The 20pin and above parts have crystal pins.

The same vendor has small QFN modules, of the DIP/castellated edges style.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008064635231.html
STC8H8K64U-QFN32 Breakout US$2.11
STC8H8K64U-QFN48 Breakout US$2.99

* There are many 89C2051 modules/project boards out there.
eg
Stepper motor DIP20 2051 pinout, with Crystal  US$3.50 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839536291.html
Stepper + IR receiver + remote + 7Seg  DIP20 2051 pinout, with Crystal  US$4.61  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000011315703.html
& many 4 & 6 digit LED clocks.

Addit2: And discussion of a LCR Meter kit using the STC89C51RD (which would upgrade to much newer STC8051U, if desired)
https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/reverse-project-02-enhancing-an-lc-meter-kit

Addit : one of these 78c ZIF adaptors for SO8N
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006529687107.html
allows you to prototype and program the STC8H2K12U-45I-SOP8 25c/100+, supports 144MHz PWM and 12b ADC

[Analog Kid]

If someone sends you a link of a thing to buy, are you going to ask they come to your house and set it up for you too?

Oh, c'mon, give me a fucking break.
It's just as easy for anyone responding to post a link to a purchasable item as it is to post a link to, say, something on Microchip's site which would then require more digging on my part, which to be honest I would like to avoid if at all possible. (Yes, I admit it: I'm lazy to that extent. So sue me.)

So it's just as easy for them and easier for me. What's wrong with that?

And no, no further hand-holding required. And to whoever posted that I'm making things harder for myself by using assembly language, no, because as I said that's my preference, been programming in asm for decades now.

[squadchannel]

ATtiny3217 Curiosity nano

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/microchip-technology/EV50J96A/11618271?s=N4IgTCBcDaIKIDcCsAGAVgTgGwgLoF8g

If you want more features, buy something else.

[brucehoult]

If someone sends you a link of a thing to buy, are you going to ask they come to your house and set it up for you too?

Oh, c'mon, give me a fucking break.
It's just as easy for anyone responding to post a link to a purchasable item

I have done exactly that, multiple times, for boards with different ISAs.

[rsjsouza]

I tend to have a soft spot for MSP430 and its inexpensive set of tools. Its assembly is very sweet to program (IMO).

They have various assembly examples and simple projects available around. A few of them are shown below.

https://www.ti.com/tool/MSP430-FUNCTION-CODE-EXAMPLES

[Analog Kid]

It's just as easy for anyone responding to post a link to a purchasable item

I have done exactly that, multiple times, for boards with different ISAs.

OK, Bruce, I totally believe you.
Tell you what: when I get some time I'll go back through the now more than 70 replies in this thread and see what you posted. To be honest I have not followed every single link that every poster posted because you know what? I actually have other things to do. Unbelievable, huh?

[forrestc]

Personally, I'd go one of two ways:

1.  Get a PIC18F26Q24 or a PIC18F46Q24.  These are available in 28 and 40 pin DIP packages.  Buy a MPLAB SNAP in circuit debugger-programmer.   Total investment, about $20.   This part is a direct descendent of earlier parts that were very popular in the DIY world such as the PIC18F26K20 so many examples should just work.   Note that you just program in-circuit - you run 5 wires from the programmer to your circuit (VCC, GND, Reset & 2 progamming pins) and it takes care of the rest.   The PIC core was specifically designed for human programmers - which is why it isn't all that great with C.  There is some argument to go with a PIC16F part instead as they have an even simpler assembly language (35 instructions total to learn vs 77 on the PIC18) but I tend to lean toward the PIC18 line just because it tends to have a bit more powerful core and more memory. 

2. Do the same but use one of the Arduino UNO boards which has a AVR processor on it.  I understand that the SNAP programmer can program these directly.  I don't have a lot of experience with AVR assembly language.

[brucehoult]

you know what? I actually have other things to do. Unbelievable, huh?

So do we.

You're wasting the time of ten people.

If you ask a question the absolute minimum of politeness would be reading the replies.