WCH $0.10 USD RISC-V MCU

[mon2]

Currently there is no pack left for the CH32V003F4P6 package. Anyhow, considering one pack purchase, shipping cost and taxes applied to my country increase the price to 0.32€ per chip. Still good price though.

WCH is the mfr and also running the Aliexpress store. Respectively, doubt it very much if they are truly 'out of stock'. It is the old FOMO (fear of missing out) market tactic. Willing to bet they will replenish the stock soon.

Reach out to their sales / tech support - each has been excellent on each of our emails to the factory.

sales[at]wch.cn
tech[at]wch.cn

Marketing Department：Jiamin Wang
Address: N0.18,Ningshuang Road,Qinheng Technology Park,Nanjing
Telephone number: 18951773252
Email: wjm[at]wch.cn
Nanjing Qinheng Microelectronics Co., Ltd.

update - found some here:

https://www.tindie.com/products/adz1122/wch-ch32v003-risc-v-mcu-offers-2kb-sram-16kb-ic/

[ataradov]

I'm personally interested in random cheap devices because I like the model where you don't pay more for the support and (somewhat) reasonable example code and documentation. Western companies insist on rolling that into the price, which is fine (literally pays my salary), but I would like to have an option to pay less and explicitly not expect any support in return. Big companies will pick the support option, of course. But vendor support for low volume customers is bad anyway, so why bother?

Although I have searches set up for CH32V305 in TSSOP20 package. This would be the smallest device with USB HS support. And according to their schematics with no external components required to support that. Still not a fan of RISC-V MCUs though.

[uer166]

RISC-V MCUs though.

Is that because of lack of a decent NVIC or something related to the interrupt controller? I know I utilize that heavily on ARM and the RISC-V ISR system confuses me.

[ataradov]

The need to program startup code in assembly, inexplicably stupid NVIC controller design also requiring assembly, lack of standardized and documented programming interfaces (except for JTAG, which requires a ton of pins and is not present on relevant devices anyway). WCH tries to address some of that, but it is pretty half-assed.

After ARM using RISC-V fell like going back 20 years. Thankfully there are as cheap Cortex-M0 MCUs from China.

[brucehoult]

The need to program startup code in assembly

What need?

Or, conversely, do you not use MSR or MRS in your Arm startup code?

[ataradov]

You don't need MSR or MRS for a useful and functional code. Here is my typical startup code for ARM - https://github.com/ataradov/mcu-starter-projects/blob/master/samd11/startup_samd11.c Not a single assembly line, even obscured by C defines or anything like that.

RISC-V core executes the first instruction, so it has to be a branch. WCH devices let you configure the rest of the table to be like ARM - a table of pointers instead of branch instructions. But this first one still must be a real branch. This is possible to workaround by hardcoding the branch to a fixed address and placing the reset vector there. But this only applies to WCH devices.

And given abundance of ARM devices, I personally see no real point in using RISC-V at this time. Things may improve in the future, of course.

All of this is not a huge deal. Lack of standard programming interfaces is a much bigger deal. I switch between many different ARM device vendors with no change in tooling. This is not really possible with RISC-V device now.

[westfw]

I would like to have an option to pay less and explicitly not expect any support in return.

That's a good way of putting it.

I think China discovered, with the ESP8266 modules, just how much "unpaid support" they could get out of western "hobbyists."
And now they're taking advantage of it.

It's a great model if you can get it to work.  Likewise, letting your old customers support your new customers; which various companies have used to their advantage.  EAGLE (when it was provided by CADSoft) was an example.  Provide a free hobbyist version, and the hobbyists not only support each other for free, but they help entice paying customers as well.
The early Internet, and before that, the mainframe computer industry, also got a lot of mileage from such ... diverse sources.

[Sacodepatatas]

WCH is the mfr and also running the Aliexpress store. Respectively, doubt it very much if they are truly 'out of stock'. It is the old FOMO (fear of missing out) market tactic. Willing to bet they will replenish the stock soon.

You're absolutely right. The store has updated the missing stock and now there are 4 more packs left. Furthermore, if you take a look at their shop, they have already sold 157 pcs  of the ch32v003 kit, and it is very suspicious that there are just 4 items left for selling. It seems that there is always a small amount listed.

However i don't understand why they don't renew the stock at LCSC.

Regarding the fact that they are focusing onto AliExpress, i think that they are thinking in a long term.  They know that nowadays hobbists will be the tomorrow engineers/experts, and designers often use what they already master.

Maybe the last would answer my own wondering.

[tim_]

LCSC supplies many other variants of CH32V, e.g. the CH32V203 which is also fairly cheap. I guess they will also supply the CH32V003 at some point.

I have to admit though, that I never understood their restocking strategy which seems to be rather random.

[tim_]

Do you still have them?
I forgot this and bought 25 for testing
If you have a J-Link (A BluePill can also be "converted" into a J-Link OB, PM me for details), it would be nice if you could take few minutes to install STM32 CubeIDE and load this project, should compile and run straight away, no lenghty setup required!

Interesting, I had not noticed there was a thread about them. Will have a read.

[true]

Currently there is no pack left for the CH32V003F4P6 package. Anyhow, considering one pack purchase, shipping cost and taxes applied to my country increase the price to 0.32€ per chip. Still good price though.

Yeah, sorry, I bought them lol.

But as stated in the thread, it's a false scarcity. WCH will provide more.

As others have commented, I too would like to see the V003 available on LCSC...

[uski]

There is one interesting point that I did not see mentioned : native 5V compatibility.

I know at least one company that is sticking to old microcontrollers from a "western" manufacturer, and that is having increasing difficulties sourcing them, simply because these old MCUs can do 5V. Since western suppliers are moving to more "advanced" process, native 5V compatibility is going away.

Looks like these WCH MCUs are built with an older process and the 5V compatibility will be very useful for a certain niche market.

I agree with the other posters that their marketing strategy is detrimental. I used to build/sell hundreds of thousands of devices based on an ST STM32F103. Been able to reliably source them for almost 10 years, with proper support channels. A whole company was depending on this stable supply.

Going with an exotic MCU might be okay for one off low-cost projects like we see coming out of China when a factory builds 100000 tamagochis and sells them, then moves on to the next product, but for a company that tries to build a product that they will support for many years? I would not bet my business than WCH will play nice...

PS: Also, redesigning with another MCU in a scramble, if/when WCH decides to suddenly discontinue this part, may not be possible. Think about regulatory certifications that companies have to do, writing/testing code, ...
The opacity of WCH makes them unsuitable for professional stuff in the western world, in my humble opinion. But if I had to build 10000 gizmos for a one-off project, yeah, why not...

[Sacodepatatas]

There is one interesting point that I did not see mentioned : native 5V compatibility.
...
Looks like these WCH MCUs are built with an older process and the 5V compatibility will be very useful for a certain niche market.

They aren't really 5V native. WCH began it's business manufacturing "one chip solution" IC for USB interfacing, that is, directly powered from 5V without the need of an external regulator. In fact, many of their MCUs (including the drop-in replacement CH32F103) are 5V capable. This doesn't mean that the entire chip is working at 5V. The sections that run at 5V are tipically the analog ones (opamp, comparator, ADC/DAC) and digital interfacing to external pins throught level conversion. But the core is often running at voltages around 1V in order to reach dozens of MHz while still being low power. This is a trick that use several MCUs, like the MCS-51s of Zilog/Abov.

EDIT: As long as the CH32V103 and CH32F103 are both 5V compatible, i asumed that the F/V203 was also compatible, but after taking a look at its datasheet, i've seen that it isn't.

Also i don't understand why the V203F8P6 (64kB) and the V203F6P6 (32kB), being both TSSOP-20 have a very different pinout so you cannot replace one with the other in the same footprint.

[tim_]

Looks like these WCH MCUs are built with an older process and the 5V compatibility will be very useful for a certain niche market.

As outlined in the datasheet, it uses an LDO to generated a core voltage of 1.5V from the external voltage. So it also uses a more modern process (130nm?).

There are also plenty of suppliers for legacy 5V devices, also in Taiwan and China. E.g. Nuvoton, Padauk...

[AVI-crak]

Looking for CH32V305FBP6 (TSSOP20 + USB2.0 HS PHY + 144MHz)
It should be cheap after dropping some of the full mince CH32V307VC. But contrary to common sense, it has the highest price tag. Currently used on WCH-linkE - very expensive.

[mon2]

Can you share specifics?

Are you receiving a quote from the factory store or a reseller?

The reseller will offer scalper pricing.

Contact the sales group directly at WCH and also chat their AliExpress store for this part. Do so ASAP before they kick into their CNY holidays. They are very responsive. Recently purchased more kits including one that was not yet on their website. This company has great strengths.

[PCB.Wiz]

Looking for CH32V305FBP6 (TSSOP20 + USB2.0 HS PHY + 144MHz)
It should be cheap after dropping some of the full mince CH32V307VC. But contrary to common sense, it has the highest price tag. Currently used on WCH-linkE - very expensive.

I find the CH347T, which is their USB-UART using this core, at lcsc for  $1.71/1k and the CH32V305FBP6 shows at  $1.22/1k
For a HS-USB part, those are quite good prices ?

[njohn]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I've only just found it...

If anybody's interested, to allow me to experiment with my CH32V003 dev. board, I've pulled together WCH's CH32V003 library code and a Makefile etc. to provide a pure Linux command line work flow.

Currently you can build, flash and debug a "blinky" type example.

You can find it here: https://github.com/nj-designs/libch32v

[AVI-crak]

I find the CH347T, which is their USB-UART using this core, at lcsc for  $1.71/1k and the CH32V305FBP6 shows at  $1.22/1k

I need a link to the store, as well as the exact geographic coordinates (latitude, longitude, altitude above the sea).

[brucehoult]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I've only just found it...

If anybody's interested, to allow me to experiment with my CH32V003 dev. board, I've pulled together WCH's CH32V003 library code and a Makefile etc. to provide a pure Linux command line work flow.

Currently you can build, flash and debug a "blinky" type example.

You can find it here: https://github.com/nj-designs/libch32v

Nice! I'm going to steal that. Mine arrived December 30, but I haven't had time to open it yet.

[tim_]

I decapsulated one device (True to the spirit of eevblog, i guess) and found that the IC is approximately 2 mm² in size. I assume that it is based on a dual voltage (1.5V/5V) CMOS process, most likely 130nm or 150nm, plus MTP memory. Considering die price, packaging and test cost, I don't think that this is a high margin product at $0.10, not even in china.

STM just released their new low-cost STM32C MCU series. For reference, it seems that the die size of the STM32C011D4 is 2.4mm². You can read this directly from the size of the WLCSP package. The device has 32kb of flash, so I assume that the 16kb STM32C011J4 device could be around 2.xmm², very comparable to the CH32V003. We have to take into account that they most likely use slightly different technologies. The STM32C is in 90nm, I beliebve the CH32V003 to be 130nm. Nevertheless, they seem to be quite comparable in area and hence cost.

What do we learn from this? Using a RV32E core does not seem to give a significant edge in silicon area over CM0. So what remains is less royalty payments and probably a willingness of WCH to operate at lower margin than STM.

Comparing to STM32G (4 mm²) pricing, the STM32C series will probably show up as low as $0.2x in volume.  So there could not be a lot of room left for off-brand ultra-cheap RISC V.

STM basically created their own STM8S003 killer - fair enough.

[DavidAlfa]

$0.2? Keep dreaming! 
Cheapest STM323C0 is still in the $1 price tag:

https://estore.st.com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32c0-series/stm32c0x1/stm32c011f4.html

[tim_]

$0.2? Keep dreaming! 
Cheapest STM323C0 is still in the $1 price tag:

https://estore.st.com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32c0-series/stm32c0x1/stm32c011f4.html

That store also sells the STM32G030 for $2.xx while its listed for $0.45 at LCSC. Actually the ratio fits nicely.
s

[SiliconWizard]

$0.2? Keep dreaming! 
Cheapest STM323C0 is still in the $1 price tag:

https://estore.st.com/en/products/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32c0-series/stm32c0x1/stm32c011f4.html

That store also sells the STM32G030 for $2.xx while its listed for $0.45 at LCSC. Actually the ratio fits nicely.
s

Yes it's quite possible it'll be available at this price at LCSC.

[PCB.Wiz]

STM just released their new low-cost STM32C MCU series. For reference, it seems that the die size of the STM32C011D4 is 2.4mm². You can read this directly from the size of the WLCSP package. The device has 32kb of flash, so I assume that the 16kb STM32C011J4 device could be around 2.xmm², very comparable to the CH32V003. We have to take into account that they most likely use slightly different technologies. The STM32C is in 90nm, I beliebve the CH32V003 to be 130nm. Nevertheless, they seem to be quite comparable in area and hence cost.

What do we learn from this? Using a RV32E core does not seem to give a significant edge in silicon area over CM0. So what remains is less royalty payments and probably a willingness of WCH to operate at lower margin than STM.

Comparing to STM32G (4 mm²) pricing, the STM32C series will probably show up as low as $0.2x in volume.  So there could not be a lot of room left for off-brand ultra-cheap RISC V.

STM basically created their own STM8S003 killer - fair enough.

Problem is the STM8S is a wider vcc part, so the STM32C has no hope to kill any 5V uses !!

Also, the visible prices of the STM32C are nowhere near the visible prices of 8 bit and 32 bit alternatives, that are wider Vcc.

Other vendors have 90nm low end MCUs already in volume production, so this seems like a late effort by ST to stem the erosion of the STM8S sales/declines, but I still cannot understand why they did a narrow Vcc version for release in 2023 ?!

That's the exact opposite of the wider market trend on small MCUs, which have to be highly flexible in their applications.