Author Topic: Why Arduino users so agressive?  (Read 11937 times)

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Offline 001

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Why Arduino users so agressive?
« on: August 21, 2019, 10:27:13 am »
Hi

I`m old tech from 70th without any programming background
But interested in AVR too just for fun
It is so funny and EASY to solder and program AVR  now :-+

But every time I google for AVR projects I`m furious about agressive Arduino users  :rant:

Is Arduino a sect?  :-//
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2019, 10:32:26 am »
Hi

I`m old tech from 70th without any programming background
But interested in AVR too just for fun
It is so funny and EASY to solder and program AVR  now :-+

But every time I google for AVR projects I`m furious about agressive Arduino users  :rant:

Is Arduino a sect?  :-//
I think most people have no idea what you're talking about so being more specific may help.  :)
 
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Offline ucanel

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2019, 10:48:17 am »
Arduino has break the huge barrier
between ordinary people and electronic so the
thin line that separates courage from stupidity
has been broken also.
 
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Offline amyk

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2019, 11:33:58 am »
I've seen plenty of stupid, but not so much aggressive...
 
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Online Rerouter

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2019, 11:46:15 am »
There is a line between arduino and raw AVR, most don't want to leave the comfort zone, so they reinforce themselves with reasons to not leave it

If all you have is a hammer, a lot of problems start looking like nails, but when you have been solving problems by hitting them with a hammer for too long, your not going to handle things too well when someone hands you a saw to cut down a tree in an hour when you have spent the last 2 weeks denting it.

The arduino community you can treat like youtube comments, raw unfiltered human minds, the general bias to a younger audience means things will have less tact, but there will still be some knowledge shared, equally if you keep answering the same beginners questions on a forum over and over again, I myself have in the past devolved into starting to mix one previous user into how I perceive the current one, and that just leads to the feeling your talking to someone who is forgetful, when in fact its not the same person. just to give the view point of the other side.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2019, 11:48:48 am »
Speaking as someone who played with AVRs using assembler before Arduino was a "thing"...  I wouldn't go back to that except for very specific reasons.

Every time I google for info on Arduino I find tons of helpful people sharing all kinds of information, at every level of sophistication.

The big community is one of the best things about Arduino as a hobbyist's / experimenter's platform....



« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 11:50:32 am by SilverSolder »
 
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Offline legacy

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2019, 12:38:22 pm »
"BMKs"(1) *seems* to be the real problem with Arduino.

There are too many around with zero skills, they are complete unskilled on anything regarding computer science because they do not even try to learn something, they go around the internet looking for a quick solution for their crazy projects or for someone who makes their homework, and the problem with forums is that there are awful mods who randomly flush away users because they are tired to handle BMK ones.

So, it's my personal opinion that "probably" aggressive users are just trying to defend their living space on the internet from BMKs.

edit:
(1) BMK is the most polite internet neologism to describe the kind without being rude. They can be adults or kids, who behave in a silly way regarding internet resources.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 03:01:23 pm by legacy »
 

Offline Seekonk

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2019, 01:03:32 pm »
There is always someone coming along saying you have to use this new and better chip or language.  99.9% of the applications for a micro are quite mundane with no need for speed or hardware advantage. In a way I miss the old days of assembly language where you had to fit everything into 1K of memory.  But the packages are all black and you can't see the code inside. Who cares what the program looks like. I think it is those other people that complain about Arduino that have a stick up their butt.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2019, 01:27:57 pm »
"BMKs" is the real problem with Arduino.

There are too many around with zero skills, they are complete unskilled on anything regarding computer science because they do not even try to learn something, they lazy around the internet on their daddy;s or mammy's laptop looking for a quick solution for their crazy projects(1) or for someone who makes their homework, and the problem with forums is that there are awful mods who randomly flush away users because they are tired to handle BMK ones.

So, it's my personal opinion that "probably" aggressive users are just trying to defend their living space on the internet from BMKs.
BMK?
 

Online ogden

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 01:44:45 pm »
"BMKs" is the real problem with Arduino.

There are too many around with zero skills, they are complete unskilled on anything regarding computer science because they do not even try to learn something, they lazy around the internet on their daddy;s or mammy's laptop looking for a quick solution for their crazy projects(1) or for someone who makes their homework, and the problem with forums is that there are awful mods who randomly flush away users because they are tired to handle BMK ones.

So, it's my personal opinion that "probably" aggressive users are just trying to defend their living space on the internet from BMKs.
BMK?
Same question here. Unlikely it is "Baby Mouse Kidney"  :-DD
https://www.acronymfinder.com/BMK.html
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 01:52:36 pm »
Between monitor and keyboard?
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 01:58:59 pm »
Is Arduino a sect?  :-//

Although I found your post quite funny, I must admit we have to wonder sometimes whether it is indeed a sect.  :-DD
 

Offline nali

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 02:09:39 pm »
BMK?

Sounds like a variant of PEBCAK - Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard
 

Online wilfred

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2019, 02:13:54 pm »
Has anyone seen an agressive Arduino user? Usually I notice the bare-metal zealots dribbling. My prediction is the anti-Arduino crowd will gather here. Which might have been the intention of the invitation.
 
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Online rstofer

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 02:15:53 pm »
I guess I have missed the purported bad attitudes of the Arduino users.  More likely, I suspect, is the negative attitude of the high priests who proclaim the Arduino a sacrilege.  This comes, of course, from the simplicity of using the Arduino and the fact that everything that can be done with an Arduino has been done and it's all out on the Internet.  And high priests just aren't in demand at the entry level.

If the Arduino is big enough and fast enough to solve the problem, I'll darn sure use it.

If Arduino users do have an attitude problem, who can blame them?  They are continually ridiculed for using a platform without having spent the time to understand the internals.  Heck, they probably don't even have the Datasheet much less having taken the time to read it!  They are told, over and over, how the Arduino will lead to world hunger and massive societal disruption and all because the users haven't bothered to learn how to write their own interrupt handlers in assembly language.  I mean, seriously, what kind of user doesn't understand interrupts at the machine code level?

So while the high priests bitch and moan about the Arduino users, the users themselves are having a great time.  There is a universal platform with canned examples of just about everything that could possibly be done; just copy and paste!  No priesthood required!

In my view, it's the high priests who have the attitude problem.

 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2019, 02:39:10 pm »
I heard on the Internet that Arduino crowd is asking the same thing about you ...  ^-^
 
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Offline e100

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2019, 02:56:48 pm »
Based on what I see on the Arduino forum at https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php#c2
only a minority of Arduino users are doing it as a hobby.

As of today I think the breakdown is roughly as follows:
90% of the posts are from students who have been given a project that they need to get done ASAP so they can pass their course. They just want an answer on a plate, preferably source code they can copy and past into their project. Having to understand things is a low priority. For this audience spending 10 minutes doing a Google search is too much effort.

5% are entrepeneurs who see the Arduino as a way of replacing some expensive piece of industrial equipment with something at 1/10 the price. They don't want to be told that fast, cheap and accurate are conflicting requirements or that WiFi doesn't work well underground.

2% are hobbyests who peppered their code with the "delay()" function because that is in so many of the official example projects. Once they discover that this is the worst way of doing things they feel like they have been lied to. It takes years for the bitterness to subside (don't ask me how I know this).

1% are hobbyests wresting with the default awful blocking libraries that paralyse their code making it impossible to do multitasking, until some kind soul points them to the non-blocking versions and then they too feel like they've been lied to. Again bitterness is the outcome.

The remaining 2% are hobbyests who have got over the bitterness of the delay() and blocking function experience and are now actually trying to use the Arduino do something useful, but have just discovered something called a 'silicon bug'. You try explaining to someone that the hardware they paid for doesn't actually do what is says in the datasheet and the manufacturer has no intention of fixing it.... and there is no workaround.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 06:22:14 pm by e100 »
 
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Online james_s

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2019, 03:56:02 pm »
I haven't really noticed a lot of aggression. The thing that annoys me is the prevalence of all those awful Fritzing diagrams in lieu of proper schematics. I really wish Fritzing would just die already, it makes my head hurt trying to decipher a jumble of wires and color coded resistors on a picture of a breadboard when a schematic would be crystal clear. Fritzing is a crutch that enables people to bypass learning to read a schematic, saving them an hour early on while costing countless hours later for themselves and everyone else.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2019, 04:21:37 pm »
If the Arduino is big enough and fast enough to solve the problem, I'll darn sure use it.

Exactly.  I happily use Visual Basic for some projects for the same reason.  Despite occasional derision from my colleagues, it is usually hard to beat a good combination of "simple", "works", and "quickly"!
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2019, 04:32:01 pm »
Exactly.  I happily use Visual Basic for some projects for the same reason.  Despite occasional derision from my colleagues, it is usually hard to beat a good combination of "simple", "works", and "quickly"!
Not to mention VBA is still fairly common. It's helpful to know your way around it.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2019, 05:03:48 pm »
Exactly.  I happily use Visual Basic for some projects for the same reason.  Despite occasional derision from my colleagues, it is usually hard to beat a good combination of "simple", "works", and "quickly"!
Not to mention VBA is still fairly common. It's helpful to know your way around it.

Yes, and it is usually the only general purpose programming environment readily available on site in large corporations without having to first go through long and complicated approval processes with their IT, networking, and various other productivity prevention departments...
 

Online bd139

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2019, 05:17:49 pm »
I'm going to bite here because I have worked with a couple of programmers that jumped into Arduino.

Usual steps for arduino users are:

1. Got Arduino hype
2. Buy arduino kit off amazon or ebay
3. Flash LED. Marvellous. 
4. Try and build a fucking warp capable space ship because you know, you can flash an LED.
5. Buy all the sensor kits on ebay
6. Smoke thirty packs of cigarettes getting nowhere because flashing LED was a gigantic lie.
7. Go watch netflix.
8. Find another fad.
9. Sell the lot on ebay as an "arduino lot" along with golf clubs, tennis rackets and all the other incomplete fads.

Edit: here's one just searched for  :-DD https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223626508024 (complete with bollocks excuse for "it wasnt what i though it was")
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 05:43:44 pm by bd139 »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2019, 05:41:44 pm »
 ;D
 

Offline Fire Doger

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2019, 06:32:05 pm »
Arduino is awesome for everyone!
Much more people got into electronics, manufacturers made modules for everything, Chinese copy them and I can buy them for near the cost of parts (in their reel price)
I can buy a bluepill for 1.5$ inc shipping!!!! There was a time when cars were cheaper than a debugger... :palm:

"Arduino programmers" are not embedded engineers.
"Arduino" is a C++ HAL library, what's wrong with that? Most of the time it's the worst solution to a problem, some times it's the best (ex. Marlin which supports every PCB/MCU for 3D printers....)

Also I like when other people give me free code because I don't like to pay, they are doing great jobs on libraries, most of them are crap in performance and memory but they work and I don't have to copy paste registers from datasheet :phew: Reworking a drivers is much faster than making it from scratch and debug it :-//

Now they want to do pcbs! Result -> pcbs costs 2$.
They don't like to read datasheet! Result -> I can find a Job easier because they don't know how to make something cost efficient.

"But the internet if full of shit now..." Learn asm for 1 mcu family as a real embedded engineer and you will be able to detect crappy code for any mcu...

Any good engineer should know as many tools as possible in his field to be able to judge and choose the best for each task, especially the free ones...

Although it's funny when arduino makers ask how to make a homing missle with arduino  :-/O

My eyes hurt on their schematics, I am a bad person and I don't try to read it >:D But being a dickhead rather than helpful is worse....
In my case my 1st software was Fritzing! I am not proud of using it for ~2 weeks but it helped me to learn the basics (I was googled PCB as green electronic tablet :-DD), then moved to eagle and now to Altium. Every crap helped someone some time become better...
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Why Arduino users so agressive?
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2019, 06:35:49 pm »
Best part about Arduino is

 
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