Electronics > Microcontrollers

Why do people not like Microchip?

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AaronD:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on August 16, 2021, 05:26:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: AaronD on August 16, 2021, 04:32:12 pm ---anything else is a barely-functional hack.

--- End quote ---
No; for typical web-browsing and video-watching needs, built-in Intel graphics in Linux work just fine too.  Yes, video playback is properly accelerated nowadays, with Nvidia/Noveau/AMD/Intel drivers in Linux...

--- End quote ---

I meant that the commercial paid platforms each have a specific use in mind, and to try and use those platforms for anything other than their intended use is a barely-functional hack.  There are lots of other platforms that are far more capable as true general-purpose machines, and you've only mentioned some of them.  :)


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on August 16, 2021, 05:26:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: AaronD on August 16, 2021, 04:32:12 pm ---It's like the Chinese don't understand Western culture at all, but keep trying anyway in hopes that something they still don't understand will stick.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure these companies are interested in understanding...

--- End quote ---

I think you're right.  And I think it's a big hindrance to their progress in taking over the world, if they keep getting rejected for not understanding.

Or maybe they want to change our culture instead???  If the average consumer gets stupid enough, that might actually happen, as the cheap stuff encourages that culture or even requires it to make it work...
(yay, conspiracy theories! :scared: ::) ;D)


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on August 16, 2021, 05:26:45 pm ---(Then again, sometimes the software support is deliberately time-limited, to ensure customers will shift to the next hardware version; hopefully from the same vendor.  Problem is, the risk of customers choosing a different vendor is unknown, and if any vendor decides to provide much longer support for the same cost and successfully communicates this to their customers, they're likely to grab significant market share from the "augh; I have to get yet another router/AP" customers, which are an increasing portion of the entire customer base.)

What really surprises me every time I look at provided Linux-based firmware images for all sorts of appliances, is the utterly shitty quality of the systems integration (i.e., the filesystem images, the open source components used to provide the necessary services in the Linux userspace, and so on).  It isn't difficult to do better, so who the hell are they hiring to do this stuff?  First timers?  High-school kids?  I dunno.

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Yeah, everything's geared towards making a buck now.  Run that through several layers of ramifications, and you're not really buying a product at all; you're buying the marketing.  The product is simply a prompt for the marketeers to go nuts with, and it shows.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: AaronD on August 16, 2021, 06:29:27 pm ---I meant that the commercial paid platforms each have a specific use in mind, and to try and use those platforms for anything other than their intended use is a barely-functional hack.  There are lots of other platforms that are far more capable as true general-purpose machines, and you've only mentioned some of them.  :)
--- End quote ---
Oh; right.


--- Quote from: AaronD on August 16, 2021, 06:29:27 pm ---Yeah, everything's geared towards making a buck now.  Run that through several layers of ramifications, and you're not really buying a product at all; you're buying the marketing.  The product is simply a prompt for the marketeers to go nuts with, and it shows.

--- End quote ---
Yup.  For the masses, the brand as marketed is indeed everything; the actual properties seem to be secondary, if that.

What I'd like to know, is how much Microchip marketing efforts have affected those who use their parts for commercial purposes.  Including freebies and directed marketing, or lack of (for those who decided to not use Microchip parts).

That's a difficult question to answer, though, because humans extrapolate, and brands are the marketing tool that targets that human behaviour precisely: "if you liked that thing, here is another thing from the same brand that you'll like too!".  It is very difficult to analyze oneself and even accept that some decisions are based on emotive reasons like good marketing, instead of objective comparisons or such.  Mainly, this means it is difficult to separate what one considers "good experience" and what is the result of marketing and not finding any fault yet to bring one down from the high of having a yet another tool one feels one likes.  Myself very much included.

(Those we like to call "fanboys" are the ones who reject the concept of "fault" in their preferred "brand" altogether.  I've only noticed one or two in this thread, early on, speculating that anyone having a negative opinion must be inexperienced or misinformed.)

nctnico:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on August 16, 2021, 08:51:29 pm ---That's a difficult question to answer, though, because humans extrapolate, and brands are the marketing tool that targets that human behaviour precisely: "if you liked that thing, here is another thing from the same brand that you'll like too!".  It is very difficult to analyze oneself and even accept that some decisions are based on emotive reasons like good marketing, instead of objective comparisons or such.  Mainly, this means it is difficult to separate what one considers "good experience" and what is the result of marketing and not finding any fault yet to bring one down from the high of having a yet another tool one feels one likes.  Myself very much included.

--- End quote ---
Does marketing actually work on engineers? In the end it is about the numbers and a good workflow. Isn't marketing mostly targeted at technically inept managers that might be tricked into thinking a product suddenly cuts development time in half or cut component costs?

A long time ago I gave a Freescale 'Coldfire' microcontroller a try because the sales rep kept nagging my boss about it touting the Coldfire microcontrollers are cheaper. So we got a devboard and I wrote some simple code for it. Much to my surprise the devkit didn't include a way to get firmware into the controller.  :wtf: For that you needed to spend another several k euro for a special JTAG interface. That just didn't make sense. The NXP LPC series ARM controllers we where already using have a factory programmed serial port bootloader and a simple USB to UART board + software tool allowed to do field updates as well (life can't be easier). So the Coldfire devboard went back for a refund.

DavidAlfa:
That's crazy. These companies smoke serious stuff.
For sure, you want these expensive, huge, ultrafast  programmers for production.
But you should also make a los cost device for the everyday thing.
Otherwise, 10 programmers developing different firmware sections, each one with a $1000 programmer in their desk just for debugging simple stuff?
No need to be a genius here, after showing the middle finger several times, the company proceeds to buy microchip/atmel/st $20-50 programmers, end of story, goodbye Freescale!

I remember Maxim 8051-based mcus from ages ago already embedding uart bootloader.
Microchip, meh, there are cheap tools available. Although they're getting more expensive every time.
I remember the pickit 2 was $25, the pickit 3 was $40, and now the pickit 4 is $70!

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 16, 2021, 10:24:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on August 16, 2021, 08:51:29 pm ---That's a difficult question to answer, though, because humans extrapolate, and brands are the marketing tool that targets that human behaviour precisely: "if you liked that thing, here is another thing from the same brand that you'll like too!".  It is very difficult to analyze oneself and even accept that some decisions are based on emotive reasons like good marketing, instead of objective comparisons or such.  Mainly, this means it is difficult to separate what one considers "good experience" and what is the result of marketing and not finding any fault yet to bring one down from the high of having a yet another tool one feels one likes.  Myself very much included.

--- End quote ---
Does marketing actually work on engineers?
--- End quote ---
Marketing that is appropriately directed at engineers, yes.  Things like samples, journals/articles by their engineers and hardware designers, access to higher-tier support, and so on.

My point is that even people who are thing-oriented rather than people-oriented, (specific types of) marketing still works.  When it is done effectively, thing-oriented people don't even notice it; they just find that "I've somehow always had a suitable device at hand".

Note that I am including everything that is done to increase sales that does not modify/affect the product sold, as marketing; not just advertisements.

Do you really believe you are immune to everything companies do to increase sales (excluding actual modifications to their products)?
I know I am not (immune).


--- Quote from: nctnico on August 16, 2021, 10:24:41 pm ---Isn't marketing mostly targeted at technically inept managers that might be tricked into thinking a product suddenly cuts development time in half or cut component costs?
--- End quote ---
Mostly, yes, because it is those inept managers that make the most purchase decisions across the industry.

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