Buying a router or making one with X86 computer

[soldar]

At home I am presently using a router TP-Link TL-WR841N with OpenWRT.
It does what I need but it does not have enough flash memory to do more, like install OpenVPN

TP-Link TL-WR841N
CPU: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9533-AL3A, Cores: 1, f= 550Mhz
Flash MB: 4
RAM MB:  32
Ethernet 100M ports: 5

So, mainly for the purpose of playing, learning and improving my setup I would like to start building a new router with greater capabilities..

1- Buying a router
One way would be to get a better router HW. I have a crate full of routers but most are just too old for OpenWRT and many are Chinese and undocumented. You would think Chinese routers would basically be the same board with different firmware but it seems this is not the case. So it seems buying a new router with more flash and ram would be the way to go.

I went to the OpenWRT page to see what routers might work and I immediately got lost in the deluge of models. Also I get the impression now they come with plug-in ram rather than on-board. This is getting complicated.
https://openwrt.org/toh/views/toh_available_16128
They recommend
- 16MB Flash will provide for bare minimum installed packages. Devices with more storage is recommended.
- 128MB RAM will provide for minimal functionality. Devices with more RAM is recommended.

So the first question is if you can recommend a router suitable for OpenWRT. I am guessing something similar to what I have, 5 Ethernet ports, WiFi, but more memory, say 16 or 32 MB flash and 128 or 256 MB RAM. Probably this should be available second hand at a good low price or maybe free.  Can you recommend a model?


2- Building a router with an X86 computer box.

I guess this is another option as I already have some computers available. But it seems installing OpenWRT is very complicated. Very. I would like a solution of the type where you can burn an ISO to a USB drive and run it from there without further complications. But from what I gather it requires complicated installation and, frankly I do not want to spend the effort and frustration.
https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-developer/uefi-bootable-image

There is RouterOS from Mikrotik which can be run live on an X86 machine but it is for pay. Or I can buy one of their router which includes it. But if I can I would rather stay with OpenWRT because I am already familiar with it.

- Conclusion
The way I see it the ideal solution would be to find a router box where I can install OpenWRT or, better still, that comes with OpenWRT installed.

The next best option would be to find a *really* simple way of installing OpenWRT on a computer drive.

If none of these are possible I'll probably do nothing and leave things as they are.

[Bobson]

You can install OpenWRT on PC. Another choice could be PFSense (It's FreeBSD based instead of Linux).
Ethernet should be Intel, not Realtek.
Avoid Mikrotik - it has bad interface and violates GPL.

[DiTBho]

Or ... a router with an amd-geode (x86 32bit compatible) made by Soekris.

I am working on it 

[DiTBho]

Avoid Mikrotik - it has bad interface and violates GPL.

Their routers - as far as I tried - have a lot of quirks with the Linux kernel.
I am still fighting against them on a couple of their MIPS routers.

[madires]

Maybe a used TP-Link Archer A7 v5 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_a7_v5) or TP-Link Archer C7 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_c7), both at the low end of HW specs (sufficient for VDSL throughput). Or if you want something more future-proof look for routers with MT7986AV, e.g. GL.iNet GL-MT6000 (https://openwrt.org/toh/gl.inet/gl-mt6000), meant to handle FTTH throughput.

[tunk]

A PC uses quite a bit more power than a router.
Depending on your electricity prices, in the long run it may be cheaper to get a router.

[soldar]

Maybe a used TP-Link Archer A7 v5 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_a7_v5) or TP-Link Archer C7 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_c7), both at the low end of HW specs (sufficient for VDSL throughput). Or if you want something more future-proof look for routers with MT7986AV, e.g. GL.iNet GL-MT6000 (https://openwrt.org/toh/gl.inet/gl-mt6000), meant to handle FTTH throughput.

Thanks. That was very useful. The GL-MT6000 is way beyond what I want to spend so I searched eBay for Archer and I bought a TP-Link AC1750 Archer A7 for $15. I hope to install OpenWRT and get to tinker and play. Its capabilities, speed, etc are much above my needs and I just need enough flash memory to play around with the firmware.

[wraper]

Maybe a used TP-Link Archer A7 v5 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_a7_v5) or TP-Link Archer C7 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_c7), both at the low end of HW specs (sufficient for VDSL throughput). Or if you want something more future-proof look for routers with MT7986AV, e.g. GL.iNet GL-MT6000 (https://openwrt.org/toh/gl.inet/gl-mt6000), meant to handle FTTH throughput.

Thanks. That was very useful. The GL-MT6000 is way beyond what I want to spend so I searched eBay for Archer and I bought a TP-Link AC1750 Archer A7 for $15. I hope to install OpenWRT and get to tinker and play. Its capabilities, speed, etc are much above my needs and I just need enough flash memory to play around with the firmware.

AFAIK A7 is Amazon exclusive C7 variant. And C7 had hell a lot of HW revisions, not all of which were OpenWRT friendly.

[David Hess]

Or ... a router with an amd-geode (x86 32bit compatible) made by Soekris.

Hasn't the geode been discontinued for a long time now?

I have a PC Engines APU2 which uses the AMD GX-412TC and they were discontinued not long ago so this excellent x86 router is no longer produces, although some models are still available.

Something like the APU2 is excellent, especially for the price, but it could be replaced by any PC for at least testing purposes.

A PC uses quite a bit more power than a router.
Depending on your electricity prices, in the long run it may be cheaper to get a router.

The PC Engines x86 routers draw about 10 watts at full load.

There are x86 motherboards built using laptop chips available, and newer motherboard BIOSes allow limiting CPU power and operating in lower power modes.

[AG6QR]

For my router/firewall, I'm using a Protectli Vault FW4b, a nice small low-power fanless x86 computer with four ethernet ports.  It's available with various combinations of RAM and SSD.  Mine has 8G RAM and 120G SSD, but in hindsight, 4G RAM and 32G SSD would have been more than enough.  I've installed OPNSense software on it, which gives excellent control and visibility to set it up for multiple VLANs, with firewall rules to do whatever I want.  I'm using a Unifi U6 for my home's WiFi -- it's centrally mounted in the ceiling of a hallway.  If you're in this deep, you'll probably want an additional network switch to provide enough network ports for all the gadgets you probably have.

[soldar]

For my router/firewall, I'm using a Protectli Vault FW4b, a nice small low-power fanless x86 computer with four ethernet ports.  It's available with various combinations of RAM and SSD.  Mine has 8G RAM and 120G SSD, but in hindsight, 4G RAM and 32G SSD would have been more than enough.  I've installed OPNSense software on it, which gives excellent control and visibility to set it up for multiple VLANs, with firewall rules to do whatever I want.  I'm using a Unifi U6 for my home's WiFi -- it's centrally mounted in the ceiling of a hallway.  If you're in this deep, you'll probably want an additional network switch to provide enough network ports for all the gadgets you probably have.

Thanks, it's nice but it ain't cheap.

[soldar]

As I said, I bought a router and will be installing OpenWRT when I get it. Mostly for entertainment.

Still, I have X86_64 computers available and it would be nice to be able to run OpenWRT but the installation process I see is very complicated. Isn't there a simple way of installing and running Open WRT in a computer with no OS or with Linux?

[coppice]

AFAIK A7 is Amazon exclusive C7 variant. And C7 had hell a lot of HW revisions, not all of which were OpenWRT friendly.

TP-Link has numerous versions of almost anything they've been making for a while. Their volumes are so big I guess they easily justify the NRE to achieve even a small reduction in RE. Its kinda funky going to their web site to see if there are firmware updates available, and finding up to 10 hardware versions, each with their own firmware version.

[wraper]

AFAIK A7 is Amazon exclusive C7 variant. And C7 had hell a lot of HW revisions, not all of which were OpenWRT friendly.

TP-Link has numerous versions of almost anything they've been making for a while. Their volumes are so big I guess they easily justify the NRE to achieve even a small reduction in RE. Its kinda funky going to their web site to see if there are firmware updates available, and finding up to 10 hardware versions, each with their own firmware version.

Later HW C5/C7 web interface does not even look anything like earlier ones, and have 1 USB port instead of 2. BTW I bought C5 in 2015 and flashed C7 firmware into it . Edited its model in firmware to flash C7 firmware through the web interface to keep original wifi config data, serial, MAC as they have exactly the same HW but C5 is artificially limited.

[David Hess]

For my router/firewall, I'm using a Protectli Vault FW4b, a nice small low-power fanless x86 computer with four ethernet ports.  It's available with various combinations of RAM and SSD.  Mine has 8G RAM and 120G SSD, but in hindsight, 4G RAM and 32G SSD would have been more than enough.  I've installed OPNSense software on it, which gives excellent control and visibility to set it up for multiple VLANs, with firewall rules to do whatever I want.  I'm using a Unifi U6 for my home's WiFi -- it's centrally mounted in the ceiling of a hallway.  If you're in this deep, you'll probably want an additional network switch to provide enough network ports for all the gadgets you probably have.

Thanks, it's nice but it ain't cheap.

PC Engines was only a little less expensive so it seems reasonable.  There are cheaper Chinese solutions if that is what you are looking for.

I am still looking for a replacement for the APU2 from PC Engines.  There are none so my next router will likely be a desktop board configured for lowest possible power.