Avoid Mikrotik - it has bad interface and violates GPL.
Maybe a used TP-Link Archer A7 v5 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_a7_v5) or TP-Link Archer C7 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_c7), both at the low end of HW specs (sufficient for VDSL throughput). Or if you want something more future-proof look for routers with MT7986AV, e.g. GL.iNet GL-MT6000 (https://openwrt.org/toh/gl.inet/gl-mt6000), meant to handle FTTH throughput.
Maybe a used TP-Link Archer A7 v5 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_a7_v5) or TP-Link Archer C7 (https://openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer_c7), both at the low end of HW specs (sufficient for VDSL throughput). Or if you want something more future-proof look for routers with MT7986AV, e.g. GL.iNet GL-MT6000 (https://openwrt.org/toh/gl.inet/gl-mt6000), meant to handle FTTH throughput.
Thanks. That was very useful. The GL-MT6000 is way beyond what I want to spend so I searched eBay for Archer and I bought a TP-Link AC1750 Archer A7 for $15. I hope to install OpenWRT and get to tinker and play. Its capabilities, speed, etc are much above my needs and I just need enough flash memory to play around with the firmware.
Or ... a router with an amd-geode (x86 32bit compatible) made by Soekris.
A PC uses quite a bit more power than a router.
Depending on your electricity prices, in the long run it may be cheaper to get a router.
For my router/firewall, I'm using a Protectli Vault FW4b, a nice small low-power fanless x86 computer with four ethernet ports. It's available with various combinations of RAM and SSD. Mine has 8G RAM and 120G SSD, but in hindsight, 4G RAM and 32G SSD would have been more than enough. I've installed OPNSense software on it, which gives excellent control and visibility to set it up for multiple VLANs, with firewall rules to do whatever I want. I'm using a Unifi U6 for my home's WiFi -- it's centrally mounted in the ceiling of a hallway. If you're in this deep, you'll probably want an additional network switch to provide enough network ports for all the gadgets you probably have.
AFAIK A7 is Amazon exclusive C7 variant. And C7 had hell a lot of HW revisions, not all of which were OpenWRT friendly.
AFAIK A7 is Amazon exclusive C7 variant. And C7 had hell a lot of HW revisions, not all of which were OpenWRT friendly.TP-Link has numerous versions of almost anything they've been making for a while. Their volumes are so big I guess they easily justify the NRE to achieve even a small reduction in RE. Its kinda funky going to their web site to see if there are firmware updates available, and finding up to 10 hardware versions, each with their own firmware version.
For my router/firewall, I'm using a Protectli Vault FW4b, a nice small low-power fanless x86 computer with four ethernet ports. It's available with various combinations of RAM and SSD. Mine has 8G RAM and 120G SSD, but in hindsight, 4G RAM and 32G SSD would have been more than enough. I've installed OPNSense software on it, which gives excellent control and visibility to set it up for multiple VLANs, with firewall rules to do whatever I want. I'm using a Unifi U6 for my home's WiFi -- it's centrally mounted in the ceiling of a hallway. If you're in this deep, you'll probably want an additional network switch to provide enough network ports for all the gadgets you probably have.
Thanks, it's nice but it ain't cheap.
I am still looking for a replacement for the APU2 from PC Engines. There are none so my next router will likely be a desktop board configured for lowest possible power.

I am still looking for a replacement for the APU2 from PC Engines. There are none so my next router will likely be a desktop board configured for lowest possible power.
Did you ever find something that you were happy with?
PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> Get-WmiObject Win32_PhysicalMemory | Format-Table DataWidth, TotalWidth
DataWidth TotalWidth
--------- ----------
64 72
64 72
PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> wmic MemPhysical get MemoryErrorCorrection
MemoryErrorCorrection
6No, I have not found anything to replace the APU2, at least for not less than 5 times the price, if that.
No, I have not found anything to replace the APU2, at least for not less than 5 times the price, if that.
I'd be interested to know what boards you considered and why you rejected them.
In the UK LinItx still has stock of the APU4D4 at £210 inc VAT (so about $230-235 without sales tax). In the US mini-box.com still seems to have stock of the APU2E4 and APU4D4 at $229 (exclusive of sales tax, presumably)
Over on Aliexpress a bare bones (no RAM, no storage) N5105 based mini-PC with 4x 2.5GbE is £96.52/$125 shipped, taxes/tariffs on top (so 20% VAT into the UK, who knows what into the US).
Rack-matrix.com has the Noah 4 (1.9GHz Intel E3845, 4x GbE, 1x mSATA and 2x MiniPCIe) for $162.23 exclusive, the Noah 5 for the same money ($171.84 for the version with TPM) or the Noah 6 at $212.39
Another board which is suggested as a replacement is the Banana Pi BPI-R4 - this seems to be available starting around $135 from amazon.com
As I said none are exactly equivalent to the APU2 (or related GX-412TC based boards). the best replacement for an APU2 or 4 is still a new APU2 or 4 while stock lasts in the retail channel (I managed to score some unused APU3's for a good price on eBay recently) but there are definitely boards/systems which will replace the core functionality for about the same price if you look for them - just that nothing quite replaces everything the APU boards offer in a single package.
There are too many scams and rip-offs from China. Quality and support are horrendous.
Intel still has objectionable market segmentation policies. Any system with an Intel processor which supports what my current APU2 supports is more than 5 times the price, at least based on what Netgate and others offer.
QuoteAnother board which is suggested as a replacement is the Banana Pi BPI-R4 - this seems to be available starting around $135 from amazon.com
I do not really object to a non-x86 processor, but nothing available has sufficient memory and peripheral support, and ECC. The non-x86 environment is very fragmented.
A low power desktop can completely replace an APU2. The only question is how low can the power be pushed.
A more powerful but still low power desktop would also allow virtualization, perhaps making up for its higher power draw by encompassing other systems.
True, and I can't imagine it's easy or cheap to order from AliExpress in the US at the moment.
That said I have had good luck (and I suppose it is luck to an extent) and not been scammed when buying stuff - though support is non existent, as you say.
There are a plethora of devices and it is not always clear who the original manufacturer is, the one I have is labelled GF-1388NP-12 on the PCB, but identified as a "Techvision TVI7309X" in the SMBIOS data. Techvision may or may not be badge engineering a board by Bluetech, or maybe not, who knows.
But, it works, it has a reasonable specification and although I mostly just use it for short term projects where it doesn't matter if it stops working.
QuoteIntel still has objectionable market segmentation policies. Any system with an Intel processor which supports what my current APU2 supports is more than 5 times the price, at least based on what Netgate and others offer.
If ECC is on your must-have list yes, it's going to be expensive as you are probably looking at "industrial" SBCs (which always have ridiculous prices from a hobby perspective), a lot of the "router" boards are pricey as well, as you observe.
In the end we were a bit spoilt by the APU series being so flexible and such good value for money. They were showing their age performance wise but the BIOS update which enabled the 1.4GHz turbo manage to redress that a bit.
QuoteA low power desktop can completely replace an APU2. The only question is how low can the power be pushed.
A more powerful but still low power desktop would also allow virtualization, perhaps making up for its higher power draw by encompassing other systems.
That's definitely a "how long is a piece of string" question - too many variables - CPU speed, number of cores, load, platform.
Using "powerstat" on my cheap Chinese toy (N5105 4 cores, 4 threads) gives an idle power draw of ~3W, just under 30W at 2.8GHz and 16W at 2.1Ghz where I have the long term power average set in the BIOS - that did need a bit of tweaking from the stock settings.
OTOH my desktop despite being a "low power" CPU (i7-12700T) idles at ~12W but readily shoots well over 100W with a bit of a load.
I will have to check that out. I have not updated the BIOS on mine since I bought it, mostly because it works and I do not want risk breaking it, although performance has not been a limitation.
I do not see anything about 1.4Ghz turbo in any release notes.
My APU2 has ECC but I do not know if that was the case for all of them.
An MT7986AV based router with OpenWrt:
- 3-4 W idle (incl WiFi)
- quad-core ARM, 2 GHz
- 1 GB RAM, 8 GB flash
- 4 1000BASE-T and two 2.5GBASE-T ports
- dual band WiFi
- about 160 bucks