Expanding - Hopefully

[EEVblog]

GOT IT!
8 Week settlement, just forwarded my $1000 deposit.
 

Youtuber Dave Jones, progress is his middle name.

Well done.

Youtuber Dave Jones, I like the sound of that!

[Towger]

My existing cable was one of the 15 or so phone lines coming in, using VDSL.

You could try something like the StarTech VDSL2 adaptors in the link above.  They do not appear to be the fastest, but good enough the Australia!

I only realised the video was a few years old after my initial post.  Is 'your' data cabinet still in use by you or another customer?  If it is abandoned then take it over!

[nctnico]

A) The existing TP phone lines.
B) The soon to be redundant existing cable (CAT5?) from 'your' data cabinet.
C) There maybe an existing unused CAT5 cable.

I'm missing option D: investigate how hard it is to pull an extra cable and if it isn't very difficult then ask permission. Pulling cables through a building is convenient when done by 2 persons and walkie-talkies are handy to talk with eachother when you are on different floors. Looking at Dave's earlier picture I get the feeling more cables have been added over time.

[asmi]

2) Get someone to run an ethernet cable from my office, down the hallway, down the shaft 5 levels and then across to the store room. IIRC that's about 70m or so, so maybe doable.

Get someone to run an OM3 (or better) fiber. This is the most trouble-free option (length limit is >300m I think), and you will be able to upgrade the line up to 10G or even more without changing the fiber whenever you decide. And switches/network cards/media converters with SFP+ are dime a dozen.

[nctnico]

2) Get someone to run an ethernet cable from my office, down the hallway, down the shaft 5 levels and then across to the store room. IIRC that's about 70m or so, so maybe doable.

Get someone to run an OM3 (or better) fiber. This is the most trouble-free option (length limit is >300m I think), and you will be able to upgrade the line up to 10G or even more without changing the fiber whenever you decide. And switches/network cards/media converters with SFP+ are dime a dozen.

Not sure. 10Gbit SFPs are still expensive. CAT6a or CAT7 cable which also supports 10Gb/s might be a cheaper option especially if you take into account needing to splice connectors to a fiber after installing it. You can multiplex multiple connections into a single fiber but I doubt this makes any sense financially compared to pulling a few extra copper cables. The distance is just too short to justify the extra fiber optic hardware.

[EEVblog]

2) Get someone to run an ethernet cable from my office, down the hallway, down the shaft 5 levels and then across to the store room. IIRC that's about 70m or so, so maybe doable.

Get someone to run an OM3 (or better) fiber. This is the most trouble-free option (length limit is >300m I think), and you will be able to upgrade the line up to 10G or even more without changing the fiber whenever you decide. And switches/network cards/media converters with SFP+ are dime a dozen.

I don't need fibre, I just need reliable enough low bandwidth internet, preferably without signing up for yet another internet plan. I already have great internet in the lab here, and a spare SIM card on my Telstra phone plan that I only use like 10% of the bandwidth of.

[Monkeh]

2) Get someone to run an ethernet cable from my office, down the hallway, down the shaft 5 levels and then across to the store room. IIRC that's about 70m or so, so maybe doable.

Get someone to run an OM3 (or better) fiber. This is the most trouble-free option (length limit is >300m I think), and you will be able to upgrade the line up to 10G or even more without changing the fiber whenever you decide. And switches/network cards/media converters with SFP+ are dime a dozen.

Not sure. 10Gbit SFPs are still expensive. CAT6a or CAT7 cable which also supports 10Gb/s might be a cheaper option especially if you take into account needing to splice connectors to a fiber after installing it. You can multiplex multiple connections into a single fiber but I doubt this makes any sense financially compared to pulling a few extra copper cables. The distance is just too short to justify the extra fiber optic hardware.

10GBASE-SR modules are easily available around $20. 10GBASE-T are around $80. Preterminated OM3 is cheap enough ($2-3/m for 4-core and half that for patches) that it's almost never cheaper to run copper. There hasn't been anything exotic about short-range fibre for quite some time..

I don't need fibre

At 70m or more, you might. It certainly won't hurt and it isn't all that expensive.

[Towger]

I don't need fibre, I just need reliable enough low bandwidth internet, preferably without signing up for yet another internet plan. I already have great internet in the lab here, and a spare SIM card on my Telstra phone plan that I only use like 10% of the bandwidth of.

Hence reusing the existing phone cable which (I believe) was used for internet before Dave got NBN is the simplest option.

Dave,
 
Is the existing cable still intact in the Old Lab after it was remodelled?
What is the status of your old internet providers rack?  Best case scenario is it's abandoned and can be reused?
 

[EEVblog]

I don't need fibre, I just need reliable enough low bandwidth internet, preferably without signing up for yet another internet plan. I already have great internet in the lab here, and a spare SIM card on my Telstra phone plan that I only use like 10% of the bandwidth of.

Hence reusing the existing phone cable which (I believe) was used for internet before Dave got NBN is the simplest option.

Dave,
 
Is the existing cable still intact in the Old Lab after it was remodelled?
What is the status of your old internet providers rack?  Best case scenario is it's abandoned and can be reused?
 

It's not abandoned, and it belongs to them, I can't touch it. I still have 16 phone pairs into the office. I was getting about 110Mbps VDSL over one of those pairs.

[PKTKS]

If I understand you have a difficult path...

Personally I would solve that carving the shortest
way to run a fiber or CAT6 to a (cheap) Bullet

https://www.ui.com/airmax/bullet-ac/

using a also cheap radome focused external link
pointed to target location receiver.

Mikrotik have similar but more complex hardware.

That solution works regardless concrete or angles
as long as you have a sight between your two radome
links..

It should be cheaper than running copper some floors..

Paul

PS>  Cheap thingy  in attached photo
fairly common to find used stuff in good shape.

more expensive but better alternative
https://www.ui.com/airmax/litebeam-ac/

[EEVblog]

If I understand you have a difficult path...

Personally I would solve that carving the shortest
way to run a fiber or CAT6 to a (cheap) Bullet

https://www.ui.com/airmax/bullet-ac/

using a also cheap radome focused external link
pointed to target location receiver.

Mikrotik have similar but more complex hardware.

That solution works regardless concrete or angles
as long as you have a sight between your two radome
links..

It should be cheaper than running copper some floors..

Paul

PS>  Cheap thingy  in attached photo
fairly common to find used stuff in good shape.

more expensive but better alternative
https://www.ui.com/airmax/litebeam-ac/

It has to go through 6 floors of concrete, somehow I don't think it's going to make it...

[PKTKS]

Yuks...  for that long concrete I would rather run
at least a mesh of 4 CAT6 cables... which I would
buy in full box set.. plus protective stuff and
all associated gizmos for install...

nah.. I would definitively try a used set of Bullets
with antennas or  even buy whole new stuff.

run a short cable with PoE (Bullet is PoE ready)
and put there outside pointing upwards..

A good receiver may be used..and options
are widely available..

PROs:  use proof easy setup affordable..
 total legal and fairly secure..

CONs:  outside installation and some periodic check..

best bang for buck.. find a spot to point a small antenna..

Paul

[EEVblog]

nah.. I would definitively try a used set of Bullets
with antennas or  even buy whole new stuff.

run a short cable with PoE (Bullet is PoE ready)
and put there outside pointing upwards..

A good receiver may be used..and options
are widely available..

PROs:  use proof easy setup affordable..
 total legal and fairly secure..

CONs:  outside installation and some periodic check..

best bang for buck.. find a spot to point a small antenna..

Not possible.
I'm not sure you understand what kind of building I'm in. It's a multistory glass commercial office complex and I'm smack in the middle of it, no windows, no outside access. it's just not possible.
Then the storage unit is 2 stories underground once you get to the bottom floor.
Picture this type of building, being in the middle of a top floor, and the storage unit is another 2 floors underground

[PKTKS]

Seems very complicated...

If you would fallback to perforating 6 floors down..
in that kind of building.. it will not be cheap.

Last hope may be the roof one two floors with a cable up
to a decent radio and a really small receiver ..

**IF** you can dump that small flat panel receiver
outside somewhere with a cable to the room.

Otherwise you are damned to use the Internet (provider)

Paul 

[asmi]

Not sure. 10Gbit SFPs are still expensive. CAT6a or CAT7 cable which also supports 10Gb/s might be a cheaper option especially if you take into account needing to splice connectors to a fiber after installing it. You can multiplex multiple connections into a single fiber but I doubt this makes any sense financially compared to pulling a few extra copper cables. The distance is just too short to justify the extra fiber optic hardware.

Not sure what are you talking about here. Fiber is cheap and reliable (unlike copper, which is very fiddly at >50 m, especially in high-noise environment, like next to big power cables), and 10G SFP+ transceivers are quite cheap too. Also you can buy a 10G switch with 4 SFP+ ports for under $200 now, so in Dave's case paying someone to run the cable is going to be the most expensive part, not the hardware. Also most OM3+ fibers can run 100G if they are not too long, though THAT is going to be expensive on the endpoint equipment side, but the fact is that you won't have to upgrade the cable once this tech becomes more accessible is a big plus in my book.

[NiHaoMike]

What about PLC? That probably would only work if you can access the same phase from the same transformer from both rooms. Perhaps there's some PLC gadget in your collection (even if for a completely separate purpose) that you can test with before investing in proper equipment?

Are there any metal pipes accessible from both rooms? Might be able to couple a signal between it and mains ground.

[jhalar]

I have a room at one of my work sites that absolutely can't have ethernet or fibre run to it from a room 6 floors up, in a similar basement location. But it does have a phone line to the central building MDF close by.

I use 2 VDSL industrial modems back to back supplying approx 60Mbps symmetrical (100M max) using phone grade wire, speed is dependent on the quality of the cable path.  It does work well.  I use it to link 2 switches together. The modems can run in asymmetric mode if the phone line is too noisy or bad.

The modems I use are:  https://www.blackbox.com/en-au/store/product/detail/LinkGain-INDUSTRIAL-ETHERNET-EXTENDER/LB320A
Not cheap, around A$350 each but it solved my problem.

[PKTKS]

With current data ... a modem?
The phone bill per si would justify a new office...

I have some 90s USRs modem pristine in my scrap..
I remember that a single CD image distro... used to
take a whole week.. and very overpriced the phone bill..

No chance in hell this would be cost effective today..
OK it works.

I would rather even try a focused radio over the concrete walls
before that.. 

Paul 

[Monkeh]

With current data ... a modem?
The phone bill per si would justify a new office...

I have some 90s USRs modem pristine in my scrap..
I remember that a single CD image distro... used to
take a whole week.. and very overpriced the phone bill..

No chance in hell this would be cost effective today..
OK it works.

I would rather even try a focused radio over the concrete walls
before that.. 

Paul 

It's VDSL over in-building wiring. It's not slow, there's no phone bill. Your reality disconnect is apparent, as usual.

[PKTKS]

It's VDSL over in-building wiring. It's not slow, there's no phone bill. Your reality disconnect is apparent, as usual.

too much in front my desk
apologies.. I missed that detail..

Always an honor to hear your insults.. 

Thanks I will improve my attention to honor it
Paul

[David Hess]

Lack of windows will prevent access by velociraptors from the outside.  I approve.

https://xkcd.com/87/

[EEVblog]

I would rather even try a focused radio over the concrete walls
before that.. 

They are concrete floors, like 5 floors of them, and the concrete underground carpark extends beyond the building perimeter, plus various metal shielding, the building is practially faraday cage.
Forget any RF solution.

[Monkeh]

The 'easy' solution is to just get a cable run, whether it be copper or fibre. It won't be terribly cheap whichever you pick.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I would rather even try a focused radio over the concrete walls
before that.. 

They are concrete floors, like 5 floors of them, and the concrete underground carpark extends beyond the building perimeter, plus various metal shielding, the building is practially faraday cage.
Forget any RF solution.

Sounds like paradise to me. No radio signals in or out you say?

Hmm.

[PKTKS]

I would rather even try a focused radio over the concrete walls
before that.. 

They are concrete floors, like 5 floors of them, and the concrete underground carpark extends beyond the building perimeter, plus various metal shielding, the building is practially faraday cage.
Forget any RF solution.

I would not say that in the 2020s ...

Any folk here aged enough to actually have the experience before the 90s..
pretty much can put things in a rather different way.

You probably lived the time BEFORE "The Internet" like me. And you know
how things were done before forums.. links ... fupedias and downloads..

Spoiled newbies post 90s have no idea of that.
I my case I started being a TOTAL TV junkie in the 70s.
By 80s I had a daily activity repairing TVs, VHS etc..

But also as part of the junkie stuff I was an avid collector
of the stuff from these folks here

http://www.antennaeletronica.com.br
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.antennaeletronica.com.br

They are/were in the HAM and TV buz since 1926.. and I have a TON
of their publications .. mostly articles for TV junk repairman and
Antenna widely important tips.. FLYBACK converters tons of important
things in the TUBE and all discrete days.. impossible to understand
wo such help..

Invaluable and absolute impossible to describe.
Nothing compares to post 90s as the Internet took over all things.

One thing I have learned from the time (70/80s) I was deeply
doing hard Antenna stuff (like weak VHF and UHF signals impossible
analog reflections.. crappy boosters):
- NEVER never ever gave up before trying
- NEVER  ever gave up on the first or second assemble
- Always consult folks w/experience in the area..

Typical in your case
* 4 or 5 walls of concrete can be easily done with highly directional dish antenna
* Signal attenuation for typical concrete is around 12-15 dB in the 2.4 GHz band
* Yagi antennas  can provide  gain around 12-15 dB just that...

So.. without directional antenna you can hit two walls.
But with a proper focused directional  dish you can have more than
25 dB of gain  around two concrete walls... or more transparently

Modern small dishes in 2.4 GHz band with boosters
can put you above the 4 concrete wall easily w/a decent
noise floor..

Should be not that expensive today.

Main problem is to ask permission to install that whole crappy hardware.
https://www.ui.com/airmax/litebeam-ac-gen2/

will give you straight 26dB of gain without the radio booster.

We are no longer in the 80s or 90s .. and ALL STUFF IS DIGITAL.
so expect  highly efficient dedicated signal processors in which
this case are required..

Your solution is a MULTI PATH BOOSTED DISH setup..
the lower range the better.. above 2.4 GHz attenuation is too high..

https://mikrotik.com/product/RBLHG-5HPnD-XL

27 dB out of the box per less than 100 bucks..

BONUS.. the stuff is all  yours  and removable any time..
not the case spending in CAT6 or fibre stuff on walls..

By 90s ahead I was totally spoiled by The Internet and
stopped all CRT TV stuff dedicated myself since then
full time to PCs and network gear.. including that kind
of setups..  repairman became a hobby..

But stuff remains in the blood.. 
Paul