Not really blog-depending... Non open topics-area

[Achilles]

Sorry to bring that up date, but you are free to delete it aynway.
You may have noticed at that ranting around. Well, I am not a fan of public problem-solving between two parties, but there really seem to be some issues.
My suggestion would be to have an members-only area where these topics could be adressed. From time to time the tone tends to be a bit out-of-style for my taste and I think it would be better to keep those user-related problems like "I don't like that nose" or "...is a troll" a bit of out the eyes of potential new users or companies. I think we won't leave the impression of a battlefield here, or do we?!
You can hide this "rant-" or "administrative area" from non-members and let it be....

So just as an idea.... Sorry for posting it here, but I found it to be the most-appropriate area.

[ivan747]

I think right now there is kind of a rebelion against and in favor of Kiriakos by some users going on. It should be stopped. I have seen the comment fights all over the forum and I am getting sick of them. If you really can't stand a user's posts, just ignore that user.
I have nothing against Kiriakos, but he should make his jokes more obvious so they don't get confused with comments or advise. 

[EEVblog]

It's called human nature, and it can't be stopped, regulated, or partitioned off.
This is already a members only forum, you have to be a member to post 

Dave.

[Uncle Vernon]

It's called human nature, and it can't be stopped, regulated, or partitioned off.
This is already a members only forum, you have to be a member to post 

Dave.

And there, in one decisive managerial statement, all hopes some may have held. for an "EEVBlog Fight Club", were dashed. 

I'll still applaud the OPs efforts towards creating a better environment.

[Jimmy]

Achilles

welcome to the internet

[Rufus]

I have nothing against Kiriakos, but he should make his jokes more obvious so they don't get confused with comments or advise. 

A funny joke doesn't need to be made obvious. Posting something stupid and sticking a on the end does not make a joke.

If someone chooses to stand on stage telling bad jokes expect the audience to start throwing rotten fruit.

[BravoV]

First of all, my deep & sincere apology to this forum members for making out these unpleasant noise lately, and it was intentional and planned, not some uncontrollable emotional out burst.  Please trust me, it is and will never be my pleasure to do such nasty acts.

Its just I'm so sick of seeing trolls keep rampaging this nice neighborhood, normally by ignoring them like using the ignore feature as suggested or just skimped through their post is more than enough.

Unfortunately some trolls are just different, particularly this type is very aware that even they're in the top of ignore list among members here, they seems to perceive it as an advantage and enjoying it very much, and use this status quo situation to intensify further the harassments and insults, this is not good especially for new comers and I believe we all want this place to grow bigger and better place.

Just see them as a thug in your neighborhood that they're so confident that most people around will be rushing to close their windows and doors and hiding inside their home to avoid them when they're in the mood for action, and definitely they are enjoying this situation every minutes of it.

Enough is enough, it must be stopped or the atmosphere around here will be worsened further, and I believe this type can not be talked nor nicely persuaded, someone needs to stand up against these SOBs to send the message that they just can not enjoy this any longer and the only way is to beat the hell out of them, and hopefully after "the treatments" they will have better control at their attitude.
 
Please don't see this as I'm encouraging a mob rule which is not my intention at all, but I'm sure we don't need a clear and strict written rules for this issue either, nor management involvements since its better for them to spend their precious energy & time to focus to the good stuffs that we are enjoying now. As long members are acting decent, courteous and civilized like our grandma had been telling us, everything will be fine.


Of course at an extreme case, an intervention from management is needed in getting rid of this type of troll for good. Cause a rotten apple is a bad apple, we should get rid of it or good one will be infected, or worst more new bad apples will come here since they see this is the right place that they can enjoy their nature.


Anyway, I'm not looking for winning a popularity contest nor credit for doing such thing, and you can verify it by tracing back all my previous posts before this attacks since I joined this forum. Also I'm prepared for the consequences from my act, should the management decided that I've crossed the line too much, and could ended up being banned from this forum. But this is no big deal for me and no hard feeling to the management either, since I have nothing to lose and I can re-join and still can enjoy this nice place for a good sharing and discussion.

Finally after this long explanation, I really wish that you now understand that this act is not about jealousy or envious act against that particular 40 years old child.

[amspire]

I know it is hard not to get sucked in, but just don't.

There are threads about absolutely nothing that people are posting replies to, and there are other threads about electronics that are almost being ignored. If no-one replied to an annoying thread, it would end up getting ignored.

Just start doing only positive posts, and this place will improve a little. Be the policeman, and it goes downhill a bit.

I can only speak for myself, but I can handle people going over the top occasionally - life is too short to worry about some soon to be forgotten post.

I don't want anyone to go from the forum. I just want to hear people talking about electronics. I don't really want to know who has the best or newest instrument "xxx", I want to hear what they are doing with instrument "xxx". If they are not actually doing anything, then they are a bit boring.

Richard.

[BravoV]

I know it is hard not to get sucked in, but just don't.

There are threads about absolutely nothing that people are posting replies to, and there are other threads about electronics that are almost being ignored. If no-one replied to an annoying thread, it would end up getting ignored.

Just start doing only positive posts, and this place will improve a little. Be the policeman, and it goes downhill a bit.

I can only speak for myself, but I can handle people going over the top occasionally - life is too short to worry about some soon to be forgotten post.

I don't want anyone to go from the forum. I just want to hear people talking about electronics. I don't really want to know who has the best or newest instrument "xxx", I want to hear what they are doing with instrument "xxx". If they are not actually doing anything, then they are a bit boring.

Richard.

Richard, you Sir, are one of my favorite poster in this forum, and I've learned a lot from your precious posts, and in this opportunity I like thank you for the great contributions you've made here.

My apology should this really bothering you, trust me, I have no intention nor ambition to be self appointed policeman or hot shot around here, I guess may be my attitude here reflects my own real life personality, and yes, I used to beat up bad boys in my neighborhood in the past. Its just I could not stand it and keep silent when seeing thing like this.

Maybe as a great contributor here, you should not involve in this kind of affair, let me this humble noob take care of this dirty job while you keep doing what you've done here, hopefully it will bring "more" good people and find out that here is a comfortable place to stay, and also "more" people talking about electronic too in the future.

Your point and note taken, thank you.

[Mechatrommer]

you people are dreaming... i just want to highlight this...

There are threads about absolutely nothing that people are posting replies to, and there are other threads about electronics that are almost being ignored.
Just start doing only positive posts, and this place will improve a little. Be the policeman, and it goes downhill a bit.

[Achilles]

Hey Folks,
great to see some response. I do appreciate that.
Ignoring "junk-threads" works out a bit at least, but on the other side it is no guarantee. If one Thread is ignored there is more time to start-up a new one. That is if we really speak about trolls around here.
Honestly there is nothing to say if somebody is washing another's head if the mad a bad statement or so, but it should be kept politely. BravoV, I understand that you went around, but it could haven been done more politely. I think you were just a bit upset and lost patience. So that's Ok but it should have an end or you should gather your information. Otherwise somebody looks here, is seeing your rant here and amy get a really wrong impression. Most people don't follow around to look if it is justified or not. They google and read a thread, and to be honest. You may or may not like all that review stuff by Kiriakos-GR, but I am quite shure the cheap chinese stuff and testing it causes some traffic, because people(in general) like to buy cheap stuff. 

@Dave: I am also active an a german dslr-photography forum. They currently have nearly 310.000 members and it is much more relaxed and politely. Not that there isn't anything to rant about, but it is kept at a low level and (obvious) trolls are gone quick.

shure you could say that's human, but I don't think Fluke or Agilent or Gossen wants to read through rants about other users. If you enter a  conference room and people are fighting each other you won't feel comfortable about the whole situation, too.

Achilles

welcome to the internet

Thank you, it really seems I have been on the wrong places online before

[EEVblog]

I know it is hard not to get sucked in, but just don't.

There are threads about absolutely nothing that people are posting replies to, and there are other threads about electronics that are almost being ignored. If no-one replied to an annoying thread, it would end up getting ignored.

Just start doing only positive posts, and this place will improve a little. Be the policeman, and it goes downhill a bit.

I can only speak for myself, but I can handle people going over the top occasionally - life is too short to worry about some soon to be forgotten post.

And that basically sums up the way I feel.
Except that it's possible for everyone to be a netcop that works by simply ignoring a post/poster they don't like.

I really dislike playing netcop by banning, with a passion, and I will not do it (or delete posts) unless under exceptional circumstances, and the moderators are encouraged to do the same.
I think that as long as you contribute to the electronics discussion here, then you are welcome, subject to the usual post-by-post rules.
And, personally, I often grow to like the "uniqueness" of some characters on various forums that I inhabit that everyone else killfiles. Because I often find them rather humorous, even if they are calling me everything under the sun, and they can sometimes produce good technical posts I might find interesting. I like the uniqueness of individual characters, it's what makes the world go round.
If others don't like them, fine, ignore then in whatever way you please. But please don't bitch about them, I find that just pointless and almost as bad as what they are complaining about. I groan every time I get an email alert because of a flagged post because someone found "blah blah blah" offensive. And in almost every case I take a look and think "why complain about that?, get over it, really, it's a storm in a teacup".
I have occasionally asked someone politely to tone it down though.

Once you start down the path of banning people based on a few people who complain (and it's always just one or a couple of people at most), then you start on the slippery slope into oblivion.
I fully acknowledge that many people have come to this forum precisely because people played net cop of other forums, and I don't want that to happen here. As the title says, I try to keep it as a "A Free & Open Forum" as best I can. But personal attacks do not belong, and anyone doing that can take it some place else.

The only winning move is not to play:


Dave.

[EEVblog]

@Dave: I am also active an a german dslr-photography forum. They currently have nearly 310.000 members and it is much more relaxed and politely. Not that there isn't anything to rant about, but it is kept at a low level and (obvious) trolls are gone quick.

How do you define an obvious troll?
How do you define a low level?
And are you talking on-topic or off-topic trolls?
How do you draw the line at a troll vs a genuine lured technical debate?
The world ain't black and white.

shure you could say that's human, but I don't think Fluke or Agilent or Gossen wants to read through rants about other users.

Then don't start threads about it, or contribute to it!
I couldn't care less what Fluke, Agilent, Gossen, or anyone else thinks.
But yes, I agree that rants about other users do not belong on this forum. There aren't many rules here, but one of them is no personal attacks.

If you enter a  conference room and people are fighting each other you won't feel comfortable about the whole situation, too.

I find that a hell of a lot more exciting than this:


Dave.

[Achilles]

@Dave:
As I said, you are free from running the forum however you like.
For my part I dislike reading through tons of rants about other users and I am sure there are a lot of others who think so. It may not be addressed to yourself, but if somebody is ticking-off and rants about another one all the time it really isn't what I want to read in a technical forum.

How do you define an obvious troll?
How do you define a low level?
And are you talking on-topic or off-topic trolls?
How do you draw the line at a troll vs a genuine lured technical debate?
The world ain't black and white.

there is no definition of that and I totally agree that it is hard to find out. So from my experience in the other mentioned forum. There is someone who just hop in a thread if somebody is asking for a new dslr as entry level adn starts the usual nikon/canon bashing. Don't buy the F**ing Canon, the Nikon blablabla is much better.... Nothing why it is better or anything. That would be considered as low level by me.
Then there are some folks who really just enter some threads to address personals and start ranting about them personally....not what they have written, just the people themselves. That would be a higher-level.
If you read it again, I have never wanted to ban anybody here. I was more talking about the tone which is used here. I think there was sth. like the netiquette here and I thought that just wasn't to fill some space in the register process.
I don't want to ban or ignore anyone, because apart from personal issues or ungentle tone (in my opinion) they can give good input and opinions. So I totally agree with you that everyone should be welcome.

So NO ban, but more an area that is non-public to play war-games...that was what I meant.
[/quote]

So you can keep that as you like, because it is your forum and you represent it, not me

So all in all..... I may watch from time to time and see that the waves have calmed down, because I don't like to read through that stuff in every thread.

See you around folks!

[EEVblog]

Last word on this one and then thread locked.

To those who complain about people, posts you didn't like, or "trolls" - PLEASE DON'T. Just ignore them, you are not helping, you are just contributing to any problem you are complaining about.
The Reasoning - You look just as stupid and are annoying just as many people as the people you are complaining about, really. If anyone's going to get banned, people complaining about other posters will be at the top of the list too!
(But please keep reporting posts that are genuinely offensive)

To those who are being complained about - you are obviously pissing off some people and that's not good for anyone or this forum, so PLEASE TONE IT DOWN. Whatever it is you are doing that is obviously pissing people off, try not to do that again.
The Reasoning - people will like you more and actually read your posts and talk with you about stuff you are passionate about, and isn't that why you are here? Why would you want people to kill-file you?

The main forum rules are no personal attacks or name calling, (unless it's about non-forum people like lawyers, big companies, marketing people etc), and try to keep things on topic. There are countless other forums that thrive on trolling, personal attacks, complaints, bitch fights, and personal venting - this (primarily) technical forum isn't one of them. Given that we only have a couple of rules here, it shouldn't be too hard to follow them, surely?

We talk, discuss, debate, argue, and bitch about electronics here. So if you are going to argue and complain, argue and complain about stuff that matters - electronics.

Thanks.
Dave.

[EEVblog]

I'll finish off responding, because you are the thread starter...

@Dave:
As I said, you are free from running the forum however you like.
For my part I dislike reading through tons of rants about other users and I am sure there are a lot of others who think so. It may not be addressed to yourself, but if somebody is ticking-off and rants about another one all the time it really isn't what I want to read in a technical forum.

Neither do I, or do most others I'm sure.
That is why there are rules that say no personal attacks or name calling, and >>99.9% of the posts on here are just fine and follow the few simple rules we do have.
But every now and again one post starts a chain reaction, and it all seems worse than it is. And this is why I am encouraging people NOT to respond and perpetuate it.
Any personal attacks or outright name calling or verbal abuse should be reported, and a moderator (Me, Simon, or Geoff) will take a look at it.
We don't like to delete posts, and always hope we don't have to, but if it's justified as breaking the rules and just plain hatred, it can and will be deleted.
Repeat offenders will be told to pull their head in.

BTW, I don't read all posts on here, far from it, and likely the same for the other moderators, so it's easy for us to miss many threads. For example, I had no idea there was a storm brewing that warranted this new thread.

Also, it should be pointed out that passionate on-topic debates and heated arguments are not only allowed, but are encouraged on here. As long as it stays generally on-topic and does not become personal. Attack the point, not the person.
But there are those who think stuff like that does not belong on here either, they want it all civil, something you'd be happy having your 5yo read, with everyone responding in the queens english and every post signed "Regards, your humble servant" blah blah. That ain't ever going to happen. I don't want a boring forum, I want a lively one with passionate debates and viewpoints, that's what I like to see.

there is no definition of that and I totally agree that it is hard to find out. So from my experience in the other mentioned forum. There is someone who just hop in a thread if somebody is asking for a new dslr as entry level adn starts the usual nikon/canon bashing. Don't buy the F**ing Canon, the Nikon blablabla is much better.... Nothing why it is better or anything. That would be considered as low level by me.
Then there are some folks who really just enter some threads to address personals and start ranting about them personally....not what they have written, just the people themselves. That would be a higher-level.
If you read it again, I have never wanted to ban anybody here. I was more talking about the tone which is used here. I think there was sth. like the netiquette here and I thought that just wasn't to fill some space in the register process.
I don't want to ban or ignore anyone, because apart from personal issues or ungentle tone (in my opinion) they can give good input and opinions. So I totally agree with you that everyone should be welcome.

There are only 3 ways to deal with personal attacks posts:
1) Have a rule that says that is not on, but don't jump down everyone's throat about it, or get uptight about it when it happens. Just gently remind them when things get a bit heated, and encourage people not to perpetuate it. Have only a couple of moderators that know the score and kill the occasional really bad post that doesn't belong, with the emphasis being on being generally quite tolerant as the first course of action.

2) Have a dozen diligent moderators watching all posts and aggressively deleting any suspect posts immediately to bend the forum to the will of the owner (and/or a power hungry moderator).

3) Start banning people's arses.

I chose to do #1 for this forum, and it seems to mostly work, except when people start threads complaining about it 

So NO ban, but more an area that is non-public to play war-games...that was what I meant.

Everyone is free to continue any personal slanging match they like by private message.
Creating a dedicated forum for it just encourages it, and others to join in, and no good can come from that.

So all in all..... I may watch from time to time and see that the waves have calmed down, because I don't like to read through that stuff in every thread.

It's not in every thread, and never has been, it's fairly rare in the scheme of things. This is by far one of the better forums out there in this regard IMO.

Dave.