EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => News/Suggestions/Help => Topic started by: Ehryk on November 15, 2015, 10:59:13 pm
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I've used them in my home theater setups, typically 'Monster Power' branded ones. There's a lot of hate on Monster Power, some of it much deserved, and also many people claim they are:
1. Super Awesome, you totally need one (usually in relation to high frequency / video applications)
2. Completely irrelevant, waste of money (should run a dedicated circuit instead)
3. Detrimental to high current devices (worse than nothing)
Hate aside, I find them very useful for providing a single location to power my components, displaying the line voltage and my system's current usage to satiate my curiosity, much higher surge protection than your 'average' surge protector, turns components off gracefully in brownout conditions, power sequencing (turns sources on before amplifiers to prevent popping, reverse order turning off) and looking hella sexy on my stereo rack.
Beyond this, I have no idea what it's doing, if it's claims are true, if the filtering and isolation are really useful to A/V components or unnecessary. There's a lot of shenanigans in the 'audiophile' community, and I'm not sure how much of this is is relevant or just the typical vapid audiophile foolery.
I picked up my last Monster Power HTS 3600 MKII off eBay for $90 shipped, the corners of one of the circuit boards were broken and it was loose but that was and easy fix. They normally go for $350 or so.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=monster+power+hts+3600+mkii&rt=nc (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=monster+power+hts+3600+mkii&rt=nc)
Here's a video by Monster Power on their Power Conditioners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7csGJqLuaM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7csGJqLuaM)
Crutchfield also did a test, but didn't get into their internals or much of the theory of operation: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-xrOdb4LZnr9/learn/the-power-conditioner-challenge.html (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-xrOdb4LZnr9/learn/the-power-conditioner-challenge.html)
Furman also makes a line of power conditioners: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NQdh32x6eBg/p_756ELT15PF/Furman-Elite-15-PFi.html (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NQdh32x6eBg/p_756ELT15PF/Furman-Elite-15-PFi.html)
Q&A: Should I use a power conditioner - video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyI85XOKzZ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyI85XOKzZ4)
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These are bullshit. Over.
Roger that.
Really if you want a rack mount power strip that also has some surge protection, then I would suggest what just about everyone I know in "Pro Audio" uses.
Furman and not the home AV line.
By "Pro Audio" I mean real recording studios, not someone's home project studio. Touring racks both on and off stage. It has to work all the time and gets tossed around on trucks by stage hands that don't care.
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They do fuck all.
If you like the look of one and find it convenient, that's fine. But it will have literally zero affect on the sound of your HiFi.
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They give audiofools a farm and fuzzy feeling. :-DD
Thus it sounds better for them. I do believe those people that they hear a difference, but that doesn't mean there is a difference in the audio signal.
The only difference it makes is between the ears of the listener.
Better invest the money in better speakers, because they are always the weakest link.
Greetings
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A power conditioner is mostly an EMI filter or surge suppressor, which can be useful as a helper in protecting your equipment against transients coming from the outlet - sometimes it can reduce interference coming from the outlet itself, but only if your audio equipment has a poor power supply design (most equipment already comes with the EMI filter inside). Even if you buy one separately, it would not cost the ridiculous prices charged by some of these brands.
As others have said, it will not improve the quality of audio or anything. It is for protection of the equipment only. Depending on the conditions where the equipment is installed (such as the ones described by Jr460) that will make a difference. Not on your home, unless you have heavy machinery in your garage :)
If you are concerned the outlet voltage varies too much (light bulbs show significant variations in brightness, for example) or you experience too many power outages, you should consider either a voltage stabilizer or a UPS. Again, these are for protection and will do nothing for the audio quality.
Just a quick read: http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/power-conditioner-voltage-regulator-ups-differences-explained/ (http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/power-conditioner-voltage-regulator-ups-differences-explained/)
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These are bullshit. Over.
This.
Although to be fair they usually have MOV protection inside, so that's kinda useful against lighting strikes etc. But no better than a $10 surge protection board.
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Nothing that is necessary for a proper CE rated device (meaning, it performs within spec while being bombarded with EMI and spikes), nor a proper CAT II (or higher) device. (In the US, FCC doesn't regulate susceptibility, but suggests at least 3V or 3V/m (conducted or radiated, respectively) for reasonable behavior.)
If it does do anything, you can rest assured it's because the rest of your equipment sucks! Which isn't to say that might be unintentional; interference would arguably contribute to site acoustics... :-DD
Tim
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I'd still love to see Dave open one up, explain the circuitry, and go over this in a video, as what little information there is on these is usually either from the manufacturers or people who are convinced they 'hear a difference'.
Plus, it's always fun to see Dave's rants!
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The very nature of devices such as this also implies that the designers of the power supplies in the (expensive) HiFi components attached are completely incompetent. How very dare they!
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I got one free, so use it as a convenient PDU. Took the one isolating transformer out to get space to add a large line filter in addition to the wimpy one it came with. Basically it is just a 8 way outlet now, with added 6A fuses on the 4 non isolated outputs and a 1A fuse on the isolated outputs. Only reason the isolated side is still there is because I plug cellphone chargers in there, where the higher line impedance does help in keeping the cheap ones from blowing up on power on.
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Do you have some pictures of your modifications?
Why does line impedance help with small chargers?
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Inrush current limiting? Just a guess.
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These power conditioners and voltage stabilization are pure bullshit. If the piece of equipment is designed well, it's designed to handle the crap on the input and lower or higher input voltage.
Hah, audiofools must really be buying some cheap and crappy amplifiers if they can hear the difference of power conditioning and input voltage stabilization. :-DD
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So sell them a cryogenically treated motor generator set for that pure sine power totally isolated from the 'dirty' mains.
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These power conditioners and voltage stabilization are pure bullshit. If the piece of equipment is designed well, it's designed to handle the crap on the input and lower or higher input voltage.
I think this depends on how stable the voltage is in your city/country. I have seen pretty expensive (and yeah, well designed) equipment suffer the consequences of voltage transients or neutral faults in household environments.
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LOL that Monster Power video, I've not seen this much BS :bullshit: since I watched some video on battery technology.
For instance talking about isolation, then talking about issues that are solved not by isolation, but by filter capacitors.
A quality double conversion UPS would do the same job as all their equipment put together, and do more (like work during blackouts).
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These power conditioners and voltage stabilization are pure bullshit. If the piece of equipment is designed well, it's designed to handle the crap on the input and lower or higher input voltage.
I think this depends on how stable the voltage is in your city/country. I have seen pretty expensive (and yeah, well designed) equipment suffer the consequences of voltage transients or neutral faults in household environments.
They won't make any difference. For overvoltages and neutral faults the only thing that will work is circuitry designed to crowbar the power line and blow an upstream fuse the moment the peak voltage goes too high. Not something the audiophool market will have thought of.
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If they have put a crow bar in then that is good. But they are probably still over priced for what they are.
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These power conditioners and voltage stabilization are pure bullshit. If the piece of equipment is designed well, it's designed to handle the crap on the input and lower or higher input voltage.
I think this depends on how stable the voltage is in your city/country. I have seen pretty expensive (and yeah, well designed) equipment suffer the consequences of voltage transients or neutral faults in household environments.
They won't make any difference. For overvoltages and neutral faults the only thing that will work is circuitry designed to crowbar the power line and blow an upstream fuse the moment the peak voltage goes too high. Not something the audiophool market will have thought of.
Simon, they do. The protection against the faults I mentioned are present in well designed voltage stabilizers - they just don't cost the ridiculous amount of money of certain brands. Also, as I mentioned before - these provide protection and do nothing else - no increase in sound warmth, no tone coloring, no other :bullshit:
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the hifi power supply should deal with noise, basically I guess the power strip is just a good quality one with protection and a fools price ;)
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So sell them a cryogenically treated motor generator set for that pure sine power totally isolated from the 'dirty' mains.
Wow and flutter figures could make their way back into the consumer marketing playbook yet!
I say Go for it!