IMPORTANT: Server Changeover

[EEVblog]

We need to keep cPanel operating without admin intervention so that Dave can manage things on the server in a pinch, this kind of custom job needs to be done carefully.

Yes, I know this breaks the hearts of the penguin elite, but I need to be able to understand, operate, and if necessary fix things myself. That means cPanel.
I don't have the time or patience to learn anything else, I've been using cPanel for a decade, I feel comfortable with it. It was hard enough coming up to speed on WHM with the new dedicated server.

Dave.

[gnif]

No worries, sounds like cPanel needs a tad more flexibility around this perhaps. BTW what you think of the whole APS package management? Got a client looking to use it for custom builds, seems solid.

APS? Do you mean APT?

http://apsstandard.org/applications

packaging standard - claims to be management suite independent - although plesk are pushing it.

Looks like it is just another package management system, nothing that flash. There is no one solution that fits in this industry, as soon as you get beyond the requirements of basic hosting as your organisation grows you quickly find you need to do things that these applications can do, but require a high level of technical understanding and the surrounding infrastructure. That said, I have not looked into APS at all, all I know is that the best package management system I have ever used would have to be APT as it just handles everything gracefully and is fast. If you need to target a packaging scheme I would suggest APT as you will then cover Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, and all the other Debian based systems out there.

[gnif]

We need to keep cPanel operating without admin intervention so that Dave can manage things on the server in a pinch, this kind of custom job needs to be done carefully.

Yes, I know this breaks the hearts of the penguin elite, but I need to be able to understand, operate, and if necessary fix things myself. That means cPanel.
I don't have the time or patience to learn anything else, I've been using cPanel for a decade, I feel comfortable with it. It was hard enough coming up to speed on WHM with the new dedicated server.

Dave.

Heh, doesn't phase me one bit, if it was not for platforms like cPanel the Linux community would suffer due to lack of users. There has to be commercialisation somewhere in it all, and cPanel are pretty quick at responding to and helping their users with technical problems when it does go that way. They have left things open enough to allow modifications and plugins to WHM (especially over the last 12 months), it is not all that bad, just some of it could be done better.

Ps: My number one wishlist item for cPanel is to give the option of running Nginx... but I know that this will break compatibility with so many sites that expect to have .htaccess support, or specific Apache modules, so it does not make much commercial sense to spend the resources on adding it when the amount of users that will use it are rather small in comparison to those that are happy with Apache.

[manicdoc]

No worries, sounds like cPanel needs a tad more flexibility around this perhaps. BTW what you think of the whole APS package management? Got a client looking to use it for custom builds, seems solid.

APS? Do you mean APT?

http://apsstandard.org/applications

packaging standard - claims to be management suite independent - although plesk are pushing it.

Looks like it is just another package management system, nothing that flash. There is no one solution that fits in this industry, as soon as you get beyond the requirements of basic hosting as your organisation grows you quickly find you need to do things that these applications can do, but require a high level of technical understanding and the surrounding infrastructure. That said, I have not looked into APS at all, all I know is that the best package management system I have ever used would have to be APT as it just handles everything gracefully and is fast. If you need to target a packaging scheme I would suggest APT as you will then cover Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, and all the other Debian based systems out there.

Agreed on APT for general package management. Unfortunately they are on windows server atm (working on it). APS looks to 'reach up' into the hosting framework and automates a lot of the set up for you across all the affected hosted services as required. Also covers Ux.

[kioan]

This is not a KVM by the way... a KVM is a physical feature of the server that provides a virtual keyboard, video and mouse interface that allows you to use the server as if you are physically sitting on it.

I'm almost sure that by KVM they mean Kernel-based Virtual Machine and not keyboard/video/mouse switch.

Using a VM on a dedicated host is not necessary a bad thing (with XCP paravirtualization I've never found noticeable performance issues), but the hosting company should inform it's customers about that. When I buy a dedicated server I would expect that full access to the hardware. Some companies offer access to the server hardware via a Remote Access Card so that you can access the bios and boot it remotely from your media.

[gnif]

This is not a KVM by the way... a KVM is a physical feature of the server that provides a virtual keyboard, video and mouse interface that allows you to use the server as if you are physically sitting on it.

I'm almost sure that by KVM they mean Kernel-based Virtual Machine and not keyboard/video/mouse switch.

You are correct if you look at the response that Dave posted.

[EEVblog]

Using a VM on a dedicated host is not necessary a bad thing (with XCP paravirtualization I've never found noticeable performance issues), but the hosting company should inform it's customers about that.

To HostGators credit, they did inform me about that (see my first post), I just didn't know what it really meant at the time.

Dave.

[ve7xen]

if it was not for platforms like cPanel the Linux community would suffer due to lack of users.

ROFLMFAO. 

[EEVblog]

The forum and site is now back up, so I'm assuming the server CentOS upgrade is now complete. 

Dave.

[Monkeh]

cPanel is one gigantic security hole waiting to happen (and doing so fairly regularly). It's also one gigantic limitation on what you can do when it's the only avenue of access you have (which, if present, it usually is).

I have never had a problem finding hosting companies offering SSH access as well as CPanel. Also everybody offers FTP access.

Ahh, FTP, so secure, so modern. Good luck with that.

Any host still running an FTP daemon should be shot.

[Thor-Arne]

Hm, the site went completely down. 

Seems like a post was lost during the down.
I got an email notification that there was new post in a topic, but nothing new there.

[Psi]

Seems to be loading pages faster than it used too.
But that might just be because its 2:36am here.

[EEVblog]

Ok, confirmed. The server is now running CENTOS 6.3 64bit with the KVM layer.
Seems to be working just fine. Server load looks normal.

Yes, sorry, the server went down completely. Guess they couldn't do it without some down time, or that was the best option for them.
I was hoping no posts would be lost, but that could have happened if they didn't do a final database backup after they took it offline.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

Seems to be loading pages faster than it used too.

In theory it could do. The 64bit implementation should be faster.

Dave.

[Monkeh]

Seems to be loading pages faster than it used too.

In theory it could do. The 64bit implementation should be faster.

Dave.

Not really. It should actually be ever so slightly slower until you start needing the address space. It also increases memory usage (not that you care on a proper machine. Embedded cares, though.)

Updating to an OS which is mildly recent, however, should've helped.

[amspire]

Ahh, FTP, so secure, so modern. Good luck with that.

Any host still running an FTP daemon should be shot.

FTP is great. I needed a manual for an '80s bit of gear, and the manufacturer didn't post any manuals that old. But they had an internal company FTP site with an anonomous login. There in one of the employees folders was the manual.

Same thing with a notebook I got 8 years ago. I was able to get manufacturing docs for the notebook from a manufacture's unsecured FTP. Guys like you just want to spoil things. 

[gnif]

Seems to be loading pages faster than it used too.

In theory it could do. The 64bit implementation should be faster.

Dave.

Not really. It should actually be ever so slightly slower until you start needing the address space. It also increases memory usage (not that you care on a proper machine. Embedded cares, though.)

Updating to an OS which is mildly recent, however, should've helped.

Actually he does need the address space, MySQL can be inherently unstable when caching more then 2.4GB of data in RAM on a 32bit system, which we are doing here.

I did not notice the server had been brought back on-line already, and email notifications from the forum seem to be broken, looks like I may have missed Dave as he needs to grant me access to the new install so I can track these issues down.

[gnif]

if it was not for platforms like cPanel the Linux community would suffer due to lack of users.

ROFLMFAO. 

Seems they lost my post in the migration... so much for ensuring database consistency. Anyway, still had the window open, so here it is

Dont see what is so funny, it has allowed/forced many many users to become familiar with Linux in the hosting environment which has pushed them to give it a go in other environments. Bugs get fixed, usability problems are found, etc, simply because more people are using it. I am not saying that it was 'cPamel' that made linux, I am saying that commercial products like cPanel help push more users towards Linux because they either want to cut costs, or they have no choice.

[grumpydoc]

They installed the new server with CentOS6, then performed a rsync of the entire root filesystem minus /boot to the new server,

They did WHAT?

Facepalm++

[Monkeh]

Ahh, FTP, so secure, so modern. Good luck with that.

Any host still running an FTP daemon should be shot.

FTP is great. I needed a manual for an '80s bit of gear, and the manufacturer didn't post any manuals that old. But they had an internal company FTP site with an anonomous login. There in one of the employees folders was the manual.

Same thing with a notebook I got 8 years ago. I was able to get manufacturing docs for the notebook from a manufacture's unsecured FTP. Guys like you just want to spoil things. 

No, I want to secure things. FTP is wide open, unreliable, and just generally shite.

Actually he does need the address space, MySQL can be inherently unstable when caching more then 2.4GB of data in RAM on a 32bit system, which we are doing here.

Never said he didn't need it, just that 64-bit does not necessarily equate to greater performance.

[Thor-Arne]

Hm, now the main site seems to be down.... 

[gnif]

works for me, but like I said, if there are any issues I can't do anything about it until I get access again . I guess it'll be tomorrow some time.

[ve7xen]

Dont see what is so funny, it has allowed/forced many many users to become familiar with Linux in the hosting environment which has pushed them to give it a go in other environments. Bugs get fixed, usability problems are found, etc, simply because more people are using it. I am not saying that it was 'cPamel' that made linux, I am saying that commercial products like cPanel help push more users towards Linux because they either want to cut costs, or they have no choice.

But that's not what you said, you said 'if it was not for platforms like cPanel the Linux community would suffer due to lack of users.', which means there wouldn't be enough users without it, which is hilarious. Linux has been the de-facto standard for shared hosting (and anyone sane doing serious deployments of anything else) long before cPanel was even a glimmer of an idea in some noob PHP3 programmer's brain. cPanel exists because of Linux's popularity in the server space, not vice versa, and without it the Linux community would be just as strong. Maybe we'd have more admins that actually know what they're doing.

[hans]

Server is now quick here too, it was slower earlier today/yesterday, but that seems to be fixed now

[EEVblog]

I did not notice the server had been brought back on-line already, and email notifications from the forum seem to be broken, looks like I may have missed Dave as he needs to grant me access to the new install so I can track these issues down.

Yes, forum email seems broken.
You now have the power of god again. Obviously the migration stripped you of your magic hammer.

Dave.