Locking threads

[Sherlock Holmes]

I've seen some discussions here get "locked" frozen by moderators when there was an active discussion underway.

When a participant insults others or reverts to foul language and others respond to that it can quickly deteriorate and so ends up being shutdown.

I think this is unfair to the others in the thread so want to suggest that in future offenders within a thread get locked out of the thread rather than locking the entire thread and penalizing everyone.

If this were done I'm sure it would improve things, those who feel inclined to use foul language and insults and break the rules should be the one's getting penalized, not everybody, getting locked out of a thread might also give such people food for thought.

The implementation would be simple if a poster breaks the rules to the degree that one would normally lock a thread, then don't, instead just lock the user out of that thread.

[coppercone2]

[thm_w]

You are talking about this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/mechanics-of-mcu-startup/
I didn't read it, but reading the last few posts now its degraded into a fight and was rightfully locked. To recover that a mod would have to go in, read most/all of the thread, and delete/edit posts with personal attacks, etc. which is a lot of work. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

If you want to start another thread, about a specific technical question/detail, without referring to the locked thread I would do that.

eg DO178 code requirement discussion thread, http://antena.fe.uni-lj.si/literatura/Razno/Avionika/rtca/Rtca%20Do-178B.pdf

[Sherlock Holmes]

You are talking about this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/mechanics-of-mcu-startup/
I didn't read it, but reading the last few posts now its degraded into a fight and was rightfully locked. To recover that a mod would have to go in, read most/all of the thread, and delete/edit posts with personal attacks, etc. which is a lot of work. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

If you want to start another thread, about a specific technical question/detail, without referring to the locked thread I would do that.

eg DO178 code requirement discussion thread, http://antena.fe.uni-lj.si/literatura/Razno/Avionika/rtca/Rtca%20Do-178B.pdf

Yes that thread is an example, and if people are unwilling to remain civil when disagreed with or when discussing something possibly controversial then this can and will happen again I think.

This is surely sufficient justification to warn someone that they'll be locked out of the thread:

If you weren't such a colossal asshole, you would have just said "OK, my mistake; apologies." and moved on.

Meanwhile there were others in the thread who are civil, polite and constructive participants but the conversations between us is now dead. So I'm really suggesting that these kinds of offensive outburst be not tolerated, I know in some forums people are locked out for a time or even banned but I'm not seeking that, just seeking to exclude offensive people from an otherwise harmless civil discussion.

If the forum doesn't support locking individuals out of threads then fine, that's likely the end of the matter but if it does or if its easy to add then I think it would be a big help.

[tggzzz]

From the thread title I was expecting that the OP was getting around to thinking about important topics in modern MCU languages.

Oh well

[thm_w]

I would not quote from a locked thread here.

If you have a problem with a post breaking the rules, in the future click the "Report to moderator" button and write a short note why. Likely the post will be deleted or edited and the user warned. If they keep doing it, banned.

[Sherlock Holmes]

From the thread title I was expecting that the OP was getting around to thinking about important topics in modern MCU languages.

Oh well

Oh, silly me, I was optimistically hoping your post would be on topic for a change; but do carry on, you'll probably succeed in getting even this thread locked!

 

[james_s]

I think this is unfair to the others in the thread so want to suggest that in future offenders within a thread get locked out of the thread rather than locking the entire thread and penalizing everyone.

Life isn't fair and this forum isn't a democracy, it's Dave's sandbox and whatever he says goes. I've been on here for years and have found the moderation in general to be more fair and lenient than just about anywhere else so I don't really see what the problem is. If you see a post that goes against the rules, report it to the moderators before it gets out of hand.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I think this is unfair to the others in the thread so want to suggest that in future offenders within a thread get locked out of the thread rather than locking the entire thread and penalizing everyone.

Life isn't fair and this forum isn't a democracy, it's Dave's sandbox and whatever he says goes. I've been on here for years and have found the moderation in general to be more fair and lenient than just about anywhere else so I don't really see what the problem is. If you see a post that goes against the rules, report it to the moderators before it gets out of hand.

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

[james_s]

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

If you have no idea what I'm talking about then all I can suggest is reading it again until you understand it, or explain what part you don't understand. That depends on how much they were doing it and whether they settled down when told to. It doesn't matter what I'd do though or what I think is a good idea, I'm not in charge. If the mods want to lock a thread they can lock a thread, for any reason, period.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

If you have no idea what I'm talking about then all I can suggest is reading it again until you understand it, or explain what part you don't understand. That depends on how much they were doing it and whether they settled down when told to. It doesn't matter what I'd do though or what I think is a good idea, I'm not in charge. If the mods want to lock a thread they can lock a thread, for any reason, period.

OK, so you wrote "It doesn't matter what I'd do though or what I think", very well, thank you.

[T3sl4co1l]

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

...Yes?  Are you agreeing with the decision, then..?

Note that there is no option to ban certain users from a thread, or timeout or whatever.  So your analogy is imperfect.  Alternately, the rowdy participant(s) could be put on timeout or ban, in which case the analogy is the entire forum as the pub -- but being able to close just one thread is quite a bit more subtle than simply throwing them out of the pub; so you might agree in this case, closing the thread is quite a gentle way to resolve it overall.

Or, it's more like, the pub has thousands of tables to sit at, with various discussion material (or say beverages, or whatever they should have for sake of analogy, heh) at each table, and the table itself is what gets the ban.  But that's still a stretch, as it assumes rowdy patrons would stick to a given table to hash things out, rather than move away and find some space to fight.

Anyway, I don't see what was so wrong with the thread, I think one or both parties just misread a few things, got WAY too personal and aggressive about it, and the thread got locked.

Tone of voice is a very tricky thing to convey on the internet; it happens.  And criticism is very easy to give, but hard to give well, and even harder to take well.

Perhaps give it a few days to cool, review the offending post(s), edit or delete them if you think it might help, then ask a moderator to reopen it, say.  Both parties will need to do this of their own volition, no one is going to guide such a process; and pestering the mods before this has been done will just result in it staying locked.

Tim

[ebastler]

@Sherlock Holmes, if you re-read the MCU thread, you might realize that it was your attitude which drove that thread downhill and eventually got it locked. And you are showing the exact same attitude again here. I wonder what result you are expecting?

If you prefer to have your account locked instead, as suggested in the OP here, I am sure that can be arranged.

[pcprogrammer]

I agree with some of the other members here. @Sherlock Holmes, it is not just the latest thread that got locked, but also the other one, about the making your own super language, that makes me believe it to be you that is the real problem here.

Go back and read james_s his response. It clearly explains how it works on this forum. No democracy, Dave's rules go. If that is not to your liking just stay away, or do like what the TEA group did. Start your own forum and do what you want there.

Now look at your own response to it. You did not see that it was on topic.

And lets not start another bashing on the moderators like what happened during the TEA crisis. There are only two left due to it, not counting Dave.

For some reason they decided to close some of your threads, and if you want to know why, send them a personal message. Maybe they will tell you the reason, but they won't tell you who requested it. It might well have been many members on the forum.

Because that is how it mostly works on this forum. It is the members that do the moderating by reporting something to the moderators. But in the end it is the moderators who decide. Fair or not, it is how it is.

[tggzzz]

I think this is unfair to the others in the thread so want to suggest that in future offenders within a thread get locked out of the thread rather than locking the entire thread and penalizing everyone.

Life isn't fair and this forum isn't a democracy, it's Dave's sandbox and whatever he says goes. I've been on here for years and have found the moderation in general to be more fair and lenient than just about anywhere else so I don't really see what the problem is. If you see a post that goes against the rules, report it to the moderators before it gets out of hand.

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

No, I'd call the police.

More seriously, your response is a succinct example of why your posts annoy some other people here:

• you don't bother to take the time to read and understand other people's posts, let alone think about what they are saying and why
• you monomanically follow your interest of the moment, to the exclusino of other relevant and useful points
• you seem to think you "own" the thread and can dictate the kinds of things other people discuss
• you invent an analogy that is certain to generate more heat than light (hint: we aren't in a pub)

For the record, I too was surprised when your other threads were locked. Unlike you, I don't think it was a bad decision.

Given that threads where you are the OP seem to have a common trajectory, perhaps you might like to consider there is a common cause?

[artag]

For a rowdy patron, the police is the right answer.

Much more of a problem is the pub bore who insists on turning every discussion to themselves. These are in the same class as trolls, and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them.  I'm not sure if the forum software assists that, but it might.

[Sherlock Holmes]

@Sherlock Holmes, if you re-read the MCU thread, you might realize that it was your attitude which drove that thread downhill and eventually got it locked. And you are showing the exact same attitude again here. I wonder what result you are expecting?

If you prefer to have your account locked instead, as suggested in the OP here, I am sure that can be arranged.

There are no forum rules about attitudes or taking a controversial position on a subject.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I think this is unfair to the others in the thread so want to suggest that in future offenders within a thread get locked out of the thread rather than locking the entire thread and penalizing everyone.

Life isn't fair and this forum isn't a democracy, it's Dave's sandbox and whatever he says goes. I've been on here for years and have found the moderation in general to be more fair and lenient than just about anywhere else so I don't really see what the problem is. If you see a post that goes against the rules, report it to the moderators before it gets out of hand.

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

No, I'd call the police.

More seriously, your response is a succinct example of why your posts annoy some other people here:

• you don't bother to take the time to read and understand other people's posts, let alone think about what they are saying and why
• you monomanically follow your interest of the moment, to the exclusino of other relevant and useful points
• you seem to think you "own" the thread and can dictate the kinds of things other people discuss
• you invent an analogy that is certain to generate more heat than light (hint: we aren't in a pub)

For the record, I too was surprised when your other threads were locked. Unlike you, I don't think it was a bad decision.

Given that threads where you are the OP seem to have a common trajectory, perhaps you might like to consider there is a common cause?

This is your interpretation, subjective, littered with your own biases. The thread about programming languages was created by me, to discuss the subject of my choosing, that subject like many can be controversial at times, some people just can't handle controversy though. They deal with it by resorting to personal insults or condescension.

I totally agree that I express a controversial or unconventional position sometimes, but I wouldn't describe that as the cause for other people being disparaging, intolerant or condescending though, nor will I apologize for bucking convention sometimes.

It's certainly also not appropriate to publicly denigrate someone, judge their personality or competence either simply because they might see things differently. Those who condone that behavior with their supportive silence need to look in a mirror too, the hypocrisy is very real at times.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I agree with some of the other members here. @Sherlock Holmes, it is not just the latest thread that got locked, but also the other one, about the making your own super language, that makes me believe it to be you that is the real problem here.

Go back and read james_s his response. It clearly explains how it works on this forum. No democracy, Dave's rules go. If that is not to your liking just stay away, or do like what the TEA group did. Start your own forum and do what you want there.

Now look at your own response to it. You did not see that it was on topic.

And lets not start another bashing on the moderators like what happened during the TEA crisis. There are only two left due to it, not counting Dave.

For some reason they decided to close some of your threads, and if you want to know why, send them a personal message. Maybe they will tell you the reason, but they won't tell you who requested it. It might well have been many members on the forum.

Because that is how it mostly works on this forum. It is the members that do the moderating by reporting something to the moderators. But in the end it is the moderators who decide. Fair or not, it is how it is.

Listen to yourself! Am I "bashing moderators"? Have I claimed the forum is or should be a "democracy"? I have simply posted a polite suggestion about an alternative course of action. I suggest you watch Orson Welles' The Trial, from the Kafka novel, it captures the character of some people here.

[ebastler]

There are no forum rules about attitudes [...]

The Rules
I hate rules, but unfortunately we have to have some for this forum:
1) Play nice with the other nerds
2) [...]
3) Conduct yourself as you would in a public place. [...]
4) Don't take things too seriously, chill out, life is short, have a laugh.
[...]

[Sherlock Holmes]

3. is the most violated rule in the forum.

[Nominal Animal]

The quote in reply #3 in this thread is from my post #94, where I stepped in between Sherlock Holmes and DiTBho, with my previous post being #89.

In real life, I have done exactly the same, broken up "arguments" (among students, and scientists) where one participant is either nitpicking or using sophistry to mislead or somehow socially "win", without being a participant myself.

It works well, with either the group disbanding immediately, or being ready to restart the conversation from the point it derailed.  If there is silence for 3-4 seconds, without anybody moving, I will restart the conversation myself by asking the question at or immediately before the derailing point (typically directing it to the "colossal asshole"), using perfectly calm and inquisitive voice, and letting my face show I'm only interested in proceeding with the question, not with the sophistry, but am perfectly willing to ignore the temporary derailment.

(I've even described similar techniques using a snipe to "shock" the person out of their game, then continue with actual helpful information in a neutral or positive tone.  That, too, works weirdly well, even if/when some seriously dislike it.)

By requiring Politically Correct wordage in any technical discussion, you're just asking people to be dishonest, and not say what they think, out of fear of being excluded.  While Dave is perfectly within his rights to implement such rules here, it would be exactly the point when I –– but more importantly, I suspect quite a few of the regulars who spend a lot of time here helping others with their questions, having the experience to do so effectively –– would leave.
Because that would basically stop Dave himself from discussing his Batterizer etc. videos here (because he definitely shows how ridiculous their claims are, and by your rules, that kind of talk would be forbidden here), I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen, though.  (Dave can post whatever he likes, but when nobody can respond except with praise, there wouldn't be any discussion, not like there is now.)

And make no mistake: I'm not licking anyones butt here, either.  I've argued with Dave hotly before.  Thing is, we can argue about things without letting it be personal.  I've already told you that before, though; that I, and others, can argue in one thread, and in another thread at the same time, perfectly calmly discuss something else and help each other.  Because we disagree about things, not persons.

Perhaps you would be much more comfortable at one of the StackExchange network sites yourself?  They're very strict about wording and tone there, and don't separate persons from their opinions.  EEVblog forum is definitely not the only electronics/embedded software forum on the web.

[tggzzz]

I think this is unfair to the others in the thread so want to suggest that in future offenders within a thread get locked out of the thread rather than locking the entire thread and penalizing everyone.

Life isn't fair and this forum isn't a democracy, it's Dave's sandbox and whatever he says goes. I've been on here for years and have found the moderation in general to be more fair and lenient than just about anywhere else so I don't really see what the problem is. If you see a post that goes against the rules, report it to the moderators before it gets out of hand.

Right, well I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so back to the subject, do you think its a good idea to shutdown a discussion thread because of someone using foul language? Would you shutdown a pub because of a rowdy patron?

No, I'd call the police.

More seriously, your response is a succinct example of why your posts annoy some other people here:

• you don't bother to take the time to read and understand other people's posts, let alone think about what they are saying and why
• you monomanically follow your interest of the moment, to the exclusino of other relevant and useful points
• you seem to think you "own" the thread and can dictate the kinds of things other people discuss
• you invent an analogy that is certain to generate more heat than light (hint: we aren't in a pub)

For the record, I too was surprised when your other threads were locked. Unlike you, I don't think it was a bad decision.

Given that threads where you are the OP seem to have a common trajectory, perhaps you might like to consider there is a common cause?

This is your interpretation, subjective, littered with your own biases. The thread about programming languages was created by me, to discuss the subject of my choosing, that subject like many can be controversial at times, some people just can't handle controversy though. They deal with it by resorting to personal insults or condescension.

Of course it is my interpretation, and my statements are reflections of my biasses - but several other people share them. So, no surprises there.

Some people are very used to - and welcome - constructive controversy in their professional lives. Other people react by ignoring opinions that don't comply with their own. I know people contributing to these threads who fall into each category; I'll leave others to form their own opinion of whom.

I totally agree that I express a controversial or unconventional position sometimes, but I wouldn't describe that as the cause for other people being disparaging, intolerant or condescending though, nor will I apologize for bucking convention sometimes.

You are completely missing the point, unsurprisingly.

It's certainly also not appropriate to publicly denigrate someone, judge their personality or competence either simply because they might see things differently. Those who condone that behavior with their supportive silence need to look in a mirror too, the hypocrisy is very real at times.

It is inappropriate to denigrate other people.

It is completely appropriate to judge their personality and competence based on their actions.

When did you last look in the mirror?

Edit: Nominal Animal's post preceding this post is sound. I believe the OP should reflect on its contents.

I'll ask this question for a second time: "Given that threads where you are the OP seem to have a common trajectory, perhaps you might like to consider there is a common cause?"

[MK14]

 
Subscribing to thread.

[pcprogrammer]

I agree with some of the other members here. @Sherlock Holmes, it is not just the latest thread that got locked, but also the other one, about the making your own super language, that makes me believe it to be you that is the real problem here.

Go back and read james_s his response. It clearly explains how it works on this forum. No democracy, Dave's rules go. If that is not to your liking just stay away, or do like what the TEA group did. Start your own forum and do what you want there.

Now look at your own response to it. You did not see that it was on topic.

And lets not start another bashing on the moderators like what happened during the TEA crisis. There are only two left due to it, not counting Dave.

For some reason they decided to close some of your threads, and if you want to know why, send them a personal message. Maybe they will tell you the reason, but they won't tell you who requested it. It might well have been many members on the forum.

Because that is how it mostly works on this forum. It is the members that do the moderating by reporting something to the moderators. But in the end it is the moderators who decide. Fair or not, it is how it is.

Listen to yourself! Am I "bashing moderators"? Have I claimed the forum is or should be a "democracy"? I have simply posted a polite suggestion about an alternative course of action. I suggest you watch Orson Welles' The Trial, from the Kafka novel, it captures the character of some people here.

I think it is you who should learn to read.

What I wrote is "lets not start another bashing" which is not "you are bashing". I was referring to something, I guess, before you joined the forum, where the moderators became the target of disgruntled members because of the removal and censuring of off topic post. What you are suggesting in your original post here is that they become policemen and remove every body from threads that you started and that do not agree with you. If they were to do so, it would lead to similar reactions.

To my opinion you are overly sensitive and definitely not open for constructive criticism and see quite a bit of what is written as a personal attack. For example posts from ataradov that you took as personal insults that were nothing of the sort.

What is being written in this thread, yes you can start seeing it as personal attacks, but that is a response to your behavior. A lot of your writing comes across as you being the superior being and we are mere idiots. But that might be just me, although based on the reactions here I doubt it.