Author Topic: Multimeter Shootout  (Read 44547 times)

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alm

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2010, 09:02:18 pm »
Indeed, the stability of high-quality multimeters can be much better than specced in the datasheet, the value in the datasheet is probably something like the three-sigma value under worst-case conditions, most meters are not worse-case. Especially the long-term drift is often quite low. It's not unusual for a meter to still meets it specs after many years without calibration. The trick is how to know if this is the case. This obviously won't cut it in a commercial environment where it's used for production testing, you want impressive official documents to impress your managers and customers, and to claim that your process that produces equipment that dies after two years has a constant quality, and will always die between two years and two and a half years.

Calibration is all about 'probably accurate' anyway, the minute the meter is put in a box and tossed in the UPS van, it might have drifted (although modern meters without trimmers are much less susceptible to shocks). The manufacturer has designed it so it probably won't drift more than X within a year, and you can use your own historical data to back it up. Sometimes they perform worse than manufacturers specs, I've heard about a metrologist that had some meters on a three month cal cycle, and they still barely met their 1-year specs.

Even with real calibration, all you have is a certificate that it was within factory specs at some time in the past, a datasheet from the manufacturer that claims that it won't drift more than X in the calibration interval, and if you're lucky some historical stats. None of this guarantees that the measurement you take today is accurate. I think Dave touched on this in a past blog.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2010, 10:41:34 am »
Holding calibration over many years is a feature worth advertising, calibration costs over time quickly add up; you can buy a new top DMM every 4-5 years and as you'd estimate, a single calibration cost more than many DMM.

Although the Fluke is rugged, I don't mistreat it and a homebuild DMM either, nor is it exposed to the extremes of its operating range, its been a 'house' meter all its life living in relative controlled conditions. I do take a Radio Shack DMM to the field often: hot, humid, bumpy, high humidity, so this thread has given me the incentive to calibrate it against the Fluke and see what continued environmental exposure will do to its drift.


Indeed, the stability of high-quality multimeters can be much better than specced in the datasheet, the value in the datasheet is probably something like the three-sigma value under worst-case conditions, most meters are not worse-case. Especially the long-term drift is often quite low. It's not unusual for a meter to still meets it specs after many years without calibration. The trick is how to know if this is the case. This obviously won't cut it in a commercial environment where it's used for production testing, you want impressive official documents to impress your managers and customers, and to claim that your process that produces equipment that dies after two years has a constant quality, and will always die between two years and two and a half years.

Calibration is all about 'probably accurate' anyway, the minute the meter is put in a box and tossed in the UPS van, it might have drifted (although modern meters without trimmers are much less susceptible to shocks). The manufacturer has designed it so it probably won't drift more than X within a year, and you can use your own historical data to back it up. Sometimes they perform worse than manufacturers specs, I've heard about a metrologist that had some meters on a three month cal cycle, and they still barely met their 1-year specs.

Even with real calibration, all you have is a certificate that it was within factory specs at some time in the past, a datasheet from the manufacturer that claims that it won't drift more than X in the calibration interval, and if you're lucky some historical stats. None of this guarantees that the measurement you take today is accurate. I think Dave touched on this in a past blog.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2010, 09:19:22 am »
I just edited the basic footage I have for the $50 meter shootout and it's already 47minutes. That does not include intro, drop tests or conclusion which I haven't filmed yet!
It's just crazy! I'm sure no one wants to watch a >1 hour shootout.
What does everything think I should do?
I could maybe shoot a quick 10 minute monologue overview with no detail, and if you want the details you watch the full 1 hour+ version? So I'd upload two separate versions.
The only other alternative is to look at what I'm rambling on about and re-shoot quicker, but that would takes ages.
I can't really edit the existing footage much more, I'd have to leave tons of stuff out to get it down.

What do people think?

Dave.
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2010, 09:51:12 am »
 ;D

Go with it Dave, but maybe split it into two 30-min segments.
cheers,
 

Offline csadzuki

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2010, 10:32:48 am »
It's just crazy! I'm sure no one wants to watch a >1 hour shootout.

I, for one, would like to watch the 1+ hour version.  ;D
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2010, 11:15:29 am »
yea I'd watch the lot, its like buying a DSLR and then throwing 99% of the info away on a JPEG output, give us all the nitty gritty dave, don't gather information only to toss it
 

Offline dengorius

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2010, 01:28:44 pm »
I agree, give us the director's cut ;)
Maybe you could attach a little timetable that describes the content. In this way anybody who doesn't want to watch the whole thing can just skip ahead

@csadzuki
Great avatar :)
 

Offline redek

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2010, 10:26:57 pm »
I've been jonesing too long for a multimeter review, I'll be happy to watch the long version.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2010, 01:53:23 am »
Dave, go for the hour+ long review. Don't waste your time editing. I've seen bloggers who got lost in the habit of trying to produce, quality edited versions and what do they have to show? Maybe 4-5 episodes a year.

You can add another episode right afterward as a summary of the 1hr+ episode. It doesn't need any editing other than as a quick summary of the 1hr show without any multimeter footage other than you talking. That should make the other crowd happy too.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 02:04:10 am by MrPlacid »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2010, 01:38:23 pm »
Go for the long one, its not just a review its entertainment.

You can preface the show with an executive summary, so start conclusions first, in case viewers wish for the short version.



I just edited the basic footage I have for the $50 meter shootout and it's already 47minutes. That does not include intro, drop tests or conclusion which I haven't filmed yet!
It's just crazy! I'm sure no one wants to watch a >1 hour shootout.
What does everything think I should do?
I could maybe shoot a quick 10 minute monologue overview with no detail, and if you want the details you watch the full 1 hour+ version? So I'd upload two separate versions.
The only other alternative is to look at what I'm rambling on about and re-shoot quicker, but that would takes ages.
I can't really edit the existing footage much more, I'd have to leave tons of stuff out to get it down.

What do people think?

Dave.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline KTP

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2010, 02:46:02 pm »
I was all excited about this review but yesterday my wife was out shopping at Frys and brought me home a Fluke 289 with FlukeView software (what a surprise! but she is a bit of a techy herself).

I have a nice wife.

I will still watch with interest while I learn this new meter, which has more controls than my oscilloscope.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2010, 04:12:25 pm »
I was all excited about this review but yesterday my wife was out shopping at Frys and brought me home a Fluke 289 with FlukeView software (what a surprise! but she is a bit of a techy herself).

I have a nice wife.

I will still watch with interest while I learn this new meter, which has more controls than my oscilloscope.

you lucky devil  ;D
 

Offline MightyTwin

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2010, 05:34:10 pm »
I was all excited about this review but yesterday my wife was out shopping at Frys and brought me home a Fluke 289 with FlukeView software (what a surprise! but she is a bit of a techy herself).

Don't ever let go of her. Her kind of species is rare to get by these days.

 ;)

-MightyTwin.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2010, 06:42:03 pm »
make it as long as you need to :)
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2010, 10:14:07 pm »
I was all excited about this review but yesterday my wife was out shopping at Frys and brought me home a Fluke 289 with FlukeView software (what a surprise! but she is a bit of a techy herself).

That's an expensive impulse buy!
Nice score on both the wife and meter!

Dave.
 

Offline flano

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2010, 08:21:25 am »
Dave,

Give us the 1+ hour, I like the details.

Thanks Mike
 

Offline link

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2010, 06:43:27 pm »
Dave,

I've got a chance to nab a new Extech EX505 for about $70. I wanna wait for your review but am afraid it might sell out. Would you recommend it for that price? Thanks. And I'm with everybody else. Make the review 1hr+ long. It's only the bad movies that need cutting.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 06:45:28 pm by link »
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2010, 10:58:27 pm »
I've got a chance to nab a new Extech EX505 for about $70. I wanna wait for your review but am afraid it might sell out. Would you recommend it for that price? Thanks. And I'm with everybody else. Make the review 1hr+ long. It's only the bad movies that need cutting.

Yeah, a bargain for $70 for a CAT-IV water/drop proof meter
If it's new in the box then it comes with a nice carry case with shoulder strap, and a magnetic hanger if you are into that sort of stuff.

They all seem pretty good, no real "pieces of shit" in the group (Yet to get the Uni-T). This will be a much closer shootout than the $50 one I suspect.

But as usual, they all have some bad points.

Dave.
 

Offline link

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2010, 02:07:00 am »
Thanks Dave! I'll jump on it. Looking forward to your review. Liam
 

Offline cybergibbons

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2010, 05:28:31 pm »
Just saw this video on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/extechvideos#p/u/8/F6nGjhAO67c

You see a bit inside the EX530... what is that white wire leading from one of the terminals across the PCB?
 

Offline dengorius

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2010, 06:07:19 pm »
Lol i like the basin drop and the car run over. Dave you should add them in your usual reviews :P :D
 

Offline link

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2010, 11:32:03 pm »
Lol i like the basin drop and the car run over. Dave you should add them in your usual reviews :P :D

Dave will probably take it to the next level - butane torch, liquid nitrogen, fat lady, etc.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2010, 12:42:41 am »
Just saw this video on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/extechvideos#p/u/8/F6nGjhAO67c

You see a bit inside the EX530... what is that white wire leading from one of the terminals across the PCB?

The wire is a kludge because they didn't lay out the board efficiently, which also results in a few cramped end-on components. Extech have admitted this and will endeavor to improve it in their next models.

That video was inspired by my Fluke 28-II video. I'll include the car test in future testing, along with other tests. I was going to do it for the Fluke 28, but plain forget in the end.

Dave.
 

Offline cybergibbons

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2010, 07:40:27 am »
The wire is a kludge because they didn't lay out the board efficiently, which also results in a few cramped end-on components. Extech have admitted this and will endeavor to improve it in their next models.

Interesting - mainly because in the Fluke 28 test, it was one of the larger discretes (can't remember what it was, a small inductor?) that sheered off the board.

These do look like very robust meters though.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: Multimeter Shootout
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2010, 07:45:34 am »
The wire is a kludge because they didn't lay out the board efficiently, which also results in a few cramped end-on components. Extech have admitted this and will endeavor to improve it in their next models.
Interesting - mainly because in the Fluke 28 test, it was one of the larger discretes (can't remember what it was, a small inductor?) that sheered off the board.

Yes, the main DC-DC SMD inductor sheared off not once but twice. Not from the actual solder joints, but the upper bobbin part. Not surprising I guess given that the ferrite material would be quite brittle.

From initial inspection, the Extech is clearly not in the same class as the Fluke 28, but it is 1/4 the price or something. Will be interesting to see how much abuse it can take.

Dave.
 


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