Author Topic: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.  (Read 2515 times)

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Offline diycounterespionage

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My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« on: April 26, 2022, 10:23:45 am »
My thread asking about list of components and circuit layout has been locked in a high-handed manner. The topic of the thread is not a violation of any rules of this forum.

But it was derailed by other users with talks about ethics and stealing, to which I replied with justified arguments, like what is stealing from stealer? When they have built their things on stolen things, they have no moral right to talk about stealing, etc.

But a moderator who claims to be from UK, has locked my thread in a high-handed manner. Who are other moderators and admins on this site, he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2022, 12:06:56 pm »
Thank you for your charming PM, in which you described me (and Simon) as a scumbag. I'm sure the appropriate action will follow shortly. [EDIT: and as you mentioned them in such insulting terms, my ancestors were coal miners in the North of England].

To return to your OP. There is no way that anyone could reverse engineer that device from those photos. Maybe you can take more, at different angles, and measure all of the passive components (as they are unmarked). The IC part numbers are invisible too.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 12:30:58 pm by Gyro »
Regards, Chris

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2022, 12:10:58 pm »
he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.

On what basis do you make such demands?
What have you contributed to give you any special rights here?

I suggest you spend some time learning how things work rather than expecting others to do everything for you.
And maybe start asking people nicely for help, rather than demanding things.
 
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Offline gnif

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2022, 12:23:51 pm »
My thread asking about list of components and circuit layout has been locked in a high-handed manner. The topic of the thread is not a violation of any rules of this forum.

You have Iceland's flag and you are insulted as if you are from US, are you ashamed of being from USA?

Shaming a user because of their stated origin is NOT acceptable and is in violation of rule #2 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/). Racism here will NOT be tolerated.

Asking members to potentially illegally reverse engineer a commercial product to create a copy is a violation of rule #6. In many countries including here in Australia, it is illegal to reverse engineer a product unless it's for interoperability, open sourcing the schematics for someone elses commercial product is not for "interoperability".

Rule #7, moderators can remove ANY topic deemed to be "potentially illegal information". Simon made the right decision here to lock your thread, if it were me I would have also issued you a warning for the above rule violations, which you have now earned yourself for this thread and the PM that was sent.

But a moderator who claims to be from UK, has locked my thread in a high-handed manner.

What does the fact that Simon claims to be from the UK have anything at all to do with any of this?
Again: Racism here will NOT be tolerated.

Who are other moderators and admins on this site, he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.

He is not wrong, you are, period. This forum is not a democracy.

Quote
You have no right NOT to be offended by something someone says. If you don't understand this, read it again until it sinks in.

As for your claim to being 50c worth of parts... what about the hours of R&D to create the device and any software it might be programmed with? The time & cost in getting sales approval, setting up a supply and manufacture chain... the total cost of parts may be 50c, but the total cost to produce may be in the thousands, and seeing as it's a niche device, the creator is not expected to sell a lot of them to recuperate their costs.

Microsoft Windows costs nothing to copy it, but millions to develop it, does that mean they are overcharging for it? Wake up and stop being so naive.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 12:46:42 pm by gnif »
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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2022, 12:51:42 pm »
My thread asking about list of components and circuit layout has been locked in a high-handed manner. The topic of the thread is not a violation of any rules of this forum.

But it was derailed by other users with talks about ethics and stealing, to which I replied with justified arguments, like what is stealing from stealer? When they have built their things on stolen things, they have no moral right to talk about stealing, etc.

But a moderator who claims to be from UK, has locked my thread in a high-handed manner. Who are other moderators and admins on this site, he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.

Those comments are something a self-entitled twit would write. Gnif's and Simon's comments are appropriate.

IMHO (which is irrelevant, of course!) the other thread was correctly locked.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline diycounterespionage

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2022, 03:08:26 pm »
he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.

On what basis do you make such demands?
What have you contributed to give you any special rights here?

I suggest you spend some time learning how things work rather than expecting others to do everything for you.
And maybe start asking people nicely for help, rather than demanding things.

Is asking for a list of components or circuit layout special rights, look at other threads on this forum, 80% of threads here ask for component identification or repairing. Why should I have contributed anything to expect the same kind of help others expect for product repair and component identification. And I did ask nicely in that thread.

You have Iceland's flag and you are insulted as if you are from US, are you ashamed of being from USA?

Shaming a user because of their stated origin is NOT acceptable and is in violation of rule #2 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/). Racism here will NOT be tolerated.

My comment was in response to his racism. If you are talking about Racism, you should start with that user, look at his post without reason he trash-talked about H1B visa holders from India, and tarnished all the people from India as rip-off artists.

Asking members to potentially illegally reverse engineer a commercial product to create a copy is a violation of rule #6. In many countries including here in Australia, it is illegal to reverse engineer a product unless it's for interoperability, open sourcing the schematics for someone elses commercial product is not for "interoperability".

Rule #7, moderators can remove ANY topic deemed to be "potentially illegal information". Simon made the right decision here to lock your thread, if it were me I would have also issued you a warning for the above rule violations, which you have now earned yourself for this thread and the PM that was sent.

I respond very badly to threats, even civil ones. And I didn't ask for that information for commercial activities. If I had any interest in commercial activities, I would contacted the seller directly and see if I can get profit of 190 euros buy selling them when they cost less than 50 cents.


What does the fact that Simon claims to be from the UK have anything at all to do with any of this?
Again: Racism here will NOT be tolerated.
Because the user who replied before it was locked is from UK. That is why I had to mention the moderator is also from UK.

He is not wrong, you are, period. This forum is not a democracy.

You have no right NOT to be offended by something someone says. If you don't understand this, read it again until it sinks in.

I'm not wrong, you are.

As for your claim to being 50c worth of parts... what about the hours of R&D to create the device and any software it might be programmed with? The time & cost in getting sales approval, setting up a supply and manufacture chain... the total cost of parts may be 50c, but the total cost to produce may be in the thousands, and seeing as it's a niche device, the creator is not expected to sell a lot of them to recuperate their costs.

Microsoft Windows costs nothing to copy it, but millions to develop it, does that mean they are overcharging for it? Wake up and stop being so naive.

It was not my claim, it was Iceland user's claim that a Chinese knock-off would be less than 50 cents.

I doubt the creator of that spy bug would have spent hours of R & D to create it, anyone who has studied electronics engineering with a specialization in RF would have designed it when they are drunk, it is similar to most of the FM circuits freely available online but miniaturized with SMD components. In the thread I posted, there is only one device which requires programming and that too for setting it's transmitting frequency, not a complicated programming which would require a post-graduate or Phd degree.

Have you looked at those spy bugs, JLCPCB would give 10 PCBs of those sizes for less than $10, they make use off-the-shelf SMD components, not some exotic components, costing $100s. It is niche device, doesn't mean it is difficult to make. I bet it has more customers than television has, to list a few, law enforcement, intelligence, spouses, partners, business partners, etc.

Microsoft Windows costs electricity charge, computer, copying device and copying medium to copy. Yes, I think Microsoft is over-charging, I think everything is overcharged. And both Apple & Microsoft stole the idea for Windows from Xerox. You are making circuitous argument, because I can go back to my argument that West has stolen things from India centuries, which made the West rich enough to develop technologies, etc. So you have no moral right to expect me to pay for it.

My thread asking about list of components and circuit layout has been locked in a high-handed manner. The topic of the thread is not a violation of any rules of this forum.

But it was derailed by other users with talks about ethics and stealing, to which I replied with justified arguments, like what is stealing from stealer? When they have built their things on stolen things, they have no moral right to talk about stealing, etc.

But a moderator who claims to be from UK, has locked my thread in a high-handed manner. Who are other moderators and admins on this site, he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.

Those comments are something a self-entitled twit would write. Gnif's and Simon's comments are appropriate.

IMHO (which is irrelevant, of course!) the other thread was correctly locked.

Where in the thread do I come across as self-entitled? This is an electronics forum where people ask for component which is damaged or they are not aware of, if those are not entitled, I'm not self-entitled.

Thank you for your charming PM, in which you described me (and Simon) as a scumbag. I'm sure the appropriate action will follow shortly. [EDIT: and as you mentioned them in such insulting terms, my ancestors were coal miners in the North of England].

To return to your OP. There is no way that anyone could reverse engineer that device from those photos. Maybe you can take more, at different angles, and measure all of the passive components (as they are unmarked). The IC part numbers are invisible too.

I don't have access to those devices, if I did, I would have done it myself. Those photos are from the seller's website, I can only post what they publish.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2022, 03:23:42 pm »
Thank you for your charming PM, in which you described me (and Simon) as a scumbag. I'm sure the appropriate action will follow shortly. [EDIT: and as you mentioned them in such insulting terms, my ancestors were coal miners in the North of England].

To return to your OP. There is no way that anyone could reverse engineer that device from those photos. Maybe you can take more, at different angles, and measure all of the passive components (as they are unmarked). The IC part numbers are invisible too.

I don't have access to those devices, if I did, I would have done it myself. Those photos are from the seller's website, I can only post what they publish.

In that case my friend, you're stuffed!  :palm:
Regards, Chris

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Offline janoc

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2022, 03:32:21 pm »
I doubt the creator of that spy bug would have spent hours of R & D to create it, anyone who has studied electronics engineering with a specialization in RF would have designed it when they are drunk, it is similar to most of the FM circuits freely available online but miniaturized with SMD components. In the thread I posted, there is only one device which requires programming and that too for setting it's transmitting frequency, not a complicated programming which would require a post-graduate or Phd degree.

Then why don't you design/build your own?

Microsoft Windows costs electricity charge, computer, copying device and copying medium to copy. Yes, I think Microsoft is over-charging, I think everything is overcharged. And both Apple & Microsoft stole the idea for Windows from Xerox. You are making circuitous argument, because I can go back to my argument that West has stolen things from India centuries, which made the West rich enough to develop technologies, etc. So you have no moral right to expect me to pay for it.

 :palm:

Dude, I have no stake in this argument, but - are you real? Please, come to any western brand car dealership and demand them to give you a new car with this argument. I kinda think you won't be driving that new BMW or Audi home any time soon ...

You are literally asking someone to copy you someone else's work - for free, from three crappy photos grabbed from their web store. And you can't accept that people have a problem with that - even setting the moral side/legality of it aside, it simply isn't possible from what you have provided. Throwing racist insults and various self-entitled tantrums like a kid being told that they can't have their toy is really not helping your case.

I strongly suggest that you get off your high horse, calm down and maybe stop coming across as a complete jerk. You would have much better chances of getting help.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 04:19:05 pm by janoc »
 
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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2022, 05:26:34 pm »
I respond very badly to threats, even civil ones.

Ooooooohhhhh!


Quote
He is not wrong, you are, period. This forum is not a democracy.

You have no right NOT to be offended by something someone says. If you don't understand this, read it again until it sinks in.

I'm not wrong, you are.

Tee hee :)

Quote
My thread asking about list of components and circuit layout has been locked in a high-handed manner. The topic of the thread is not a violation of any rules of this forum.

But it was derailed by other users with talks about ethics and stealing, to which I replied with justified arguments, like what is stealing from stealer? When they have built their things on stolen things, they have no moral right to talk about stealing, etc.

But a moderator who claims to be from UK, has locked my thread in a high-handed manner. Who are other moderators and admins on this site, he is wrong for locking the thread and it must be unlocked.

Those comments are something a self-entitled twit would write. Gnif's and Simon's comments are appropriate.

IMHO (which is irrelevant, of course!) the other thread was correctly locked.

Where in the thread do I come across as self-entitled? This is an electronics forum where people ask for component which is damaged or they are not aware of, if those are not entitled, I'm not self-entitled.

In the text of yours that I quoted, and in some of your other comments.

You are quite a charmer, aren't you.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Gyro

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2022, 05:55:19 pm »
Good riddance!
Regards, Chris

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Offline gnif

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2022, 11:29:34 pm »
I respond very badly to threats, even civil ones. And I didn't ask for that information for commercial activities.

Threat - a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.

Good thing it wasn't a threat then... learn to read.

If I had any interest in commercial activities, I would contacted the seller directly and see if I can get profit of 190 euros buy selling them when they cost less than 50 cents.

 :palm:

You don't know the seller... they might be someone just like you. They may not be an RF engineer but a hobbyist trying to justify the cost of their hobby. Many hobbyists or even retired engineers create and sell devices such as this simply to provide financial support to continue their hobby. This could even be come child trying to earn a bit of pocket money, it might even be an Indian who comes from a poor background and feels he was ripped off by the west also, and now here you are, trying to rip them off.

The fact that they have misspelled words on their website ("Ultra Secrete Spy Tools"), and the fact that they are using a @gmail.com email for contact lends to the idea that it's a small one man operation supporting his hobby rather then some huge company trying to gouge. Doing a little bit of research it's not hard to identify the owner and the fact that he is a NOT an Electronics Engineer (no, I won't dox him, don't even ask).

Looking at the photos provided, these are very clearly not fabricated by a service like JLPCB, but rather look to be hand made PCBs and hand soldered. As such each one likely takes a minimum of an hour to produce. Unless you only value your time at <50c/h then you're kidding yourself that these are cheap to make.

Good riddance!

Agreed, thanks whoever banned him.

Edit: Also... one of the first circuits I built as a kid...
http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/Voyager/Voyager-P1.html
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 11:50:25 pm by gnif »
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Online james_s

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2022, 12:05:04 am »
Bottom line is it doesn't matter, none of that does. Dave owns this forum, it's his sandbox, the moderators are people that he has chosen to moderate it. The rules can be whatever they choose but for the most part I have found them to be more reasonable than most places on the internet, this is one of the few places where people are rarely banned or suspended without being given a clear reason and a lot of times they will let things slide when people are being adults about it. If you or anyone else doesn't like the rules then go elsewhere.
 
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Offline YurkshireLad

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2022, 12:07:45 am »
There goes my fun for the evening!  ;D
 
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2022, 01:29:32 am »
This thread and the other have been educational.  Unfortunately.  I am again reminded that there are people out there with some very strange understandings of the world.

I received a strongly worded personal message from the OP in response to my comment on the other thread.  Indicating that he has even broader views of the wrongs in the world than the posts indicated. 

Totally agree with locking and banning, but also realize that this will be used as one more example of how horribly the world treats him and his compatriots.
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2022, 01:56:48 am »
... like what is stealing from stealer?

It's illegal. It's stealing the same as stealing from a non-criminal. Yes, it is illegal to steal even from criminals. Criminals have belongings just like other people do. You know, it's all taken care of in the laws that govern our society. You know - two wrongs do not make a right and all that.
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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2022, 02:19:40 am »
Totally agree with locking and banning, but also realize that this will be used as one more example of how horribly the world treats him and his compatriots.


You can't win an argument with crazy. He's going to think the world treats him horribly and everything is someone else's fault no matter how far people bend over backward to please him.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2022, 12:49:34 pm »
Quote
Can anyone give me a list of components and circuit layout from these photos?

Sounds to me like he wanted to be silver spoon fed this stuff at the effort of others but himself.

Correct me if you think I am wrong but I always thought that this sort of thing was referred to as "copyright infringement?" as nothing was physically taken away from the producers (material wise) apart from their revenue/profits that could be cut short if enough buyers chose knockoffs instead of the genuine articles.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 12:51:26 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline magic

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2022, 05:49:12 pm »
Cloning a product is not copyright infringement but the rest is right on the money - OP wanted to outsource ripping off some device and couldn't even be assed to provide images with legible part numbers :palm:
 
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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2022, 06:01:38 pm »
That's the thing, I couldn't care less if he wants to clone the product, I've cloned things before for my own use. The issue is he was wanting someone to do it for him, for free, and then getting angry when nobody wanted to do that :palm:
 
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Offline janoc

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2022, 09:03:38 pm »
Quote
Can anyone give me a list of components and circuit layout from these photos?

Sounds to me like he wanted to be silver spoon fed this stuff at the effort of others but himself.

Correct me if you think I am wrong but I always thought that this sort of thing was referred to as "copyright infringement?" as nothing was physically taken away from the producers (material wise) apart from their revenue/profits that could be cut short if enough buyers chose knockoffs instead of the genuine articles.

You can't copyright a PCB/physical product. Maybe a (design) patent but that's different thing (there is this whole novelty concept involved). Or you could trademark it - but that doesn't prevent someone from making a copy and selling it under a different brand.
 
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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2022, 09:36:56 pm »
You can't copyright a PCB/physical product.

This is incorrect.  There are several things about a PCB for which you can register a copyright, including the physical layout itself.  There is similar protection for IC masks and so forth.  Someone who copies your PCB directly either by photographic process or by tracing out with a pencil could be found to have violated that copyright, even if they make minor changes or delete the identifying information.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2022, 09:52:50 pm »
You can't copyright a PCB/physical product.

This is incorrect.  There are several things about a PCB for which you can register a copyright, including the physical layout itself.  There is similar protection for IC masks and so forth.  Someone who copies your PCB directly either by photographic process or by tracing out with a pencil could be found to have violated that copyright, even if they make minor changes or delete the identifying information.

See:  https://garson-law.com/ask-dr-copyright-protect-your-software-circuit-boards-and-mask-works/  for a discussion in US law.
 
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Offline Scherms

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2022, 04:00:01 am »
The original thread for those playing along at home:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/can-anyone-give-me-a-list-of-components-and-circuit-layout-from-these-photos/

Seen this so many times... The golden rule to all those 'who are easily offended' is to never reply to anything on a thread you have started! But if you have to reply to negativity then use this:  :) as your only response... and sit back and watch the heads explode!
 

Offline gnif

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Re: My thread has been locked in a high-handed manner.
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2022, 04:25:57 am »
This topic is done and finished, locked
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