Thank You on the Forum

[jwet]

To Admin,
I enjoy your forums.  As a retired FAE and IC product definer, it scratches the same itch that the favorite part of my old job did.  I try to contribute postiively to unanswered or under-answered posts on the beginner and technical chats daily.  I look for things with 0 responses to see if I can help or start a conversation.  I don't pile on to popular posts and don't add to the BS chatter usually.  I try to think about the issue, imagine myself as some frustrated newbie hobbyist in some remote location and answer directly.  Sometimes I'll add color or alternatives to a discussion.  I'm surprised at how few times people give a thanks or any acknowledgement.  Its kind of demotivating.  I come back and look at my post responses just to see that the posts end with my mine and there is nothing more.  Your forums are an amazing place but users who get well reasoned answers should make a point to hit the thanks button- its getting less fun for a gray beard like me.

Rant mode off.

[ataradov]

I personally have all thanks functionality adblocked. That social network desire for approval and likes from random people on the internet rotted people's brains. Who cares?

Also, what do you want admins to do here? Force people to like your stuff?

[jwet]

No offense, but you're a bigger man than I am Ataradov.  I don't think its nothing really.  Its courtesy and this is lacking in our world these days.

As far as what the admins can do, I think in the instructions for the board, thank you's should be encouraged.  You have access to this amazing group of technical people that will listen to your questions, think about them and answer.  The least someone can do is to give a click.h

I am a very experienced old guy, I almost never ask questions here, I answer them for fun and some diversion.  My sole motivation is helping and I'm disappointed that more don't use the thanks button.

If you're entering a building and hold the door open for someone a few feet behind you- wouldn't you reasonably expect a thanks or acknowledging nod?  If I got no response, I would see that person as somewhat selfish. 

Acknowledgement and thanks is the biggest motivator in the world- bigger than money in my experience.

[thm_w]

If you're entering a building and hold the door open for someone a few feet behind you- wouldn't you reasonably expect a thanks or acknowledging nod?  If I got no response, I would see that person as somewhat selfish. 

Acknowledgement and thanks is the biggest motivator in the world- bigger than money in my experience.

I agree, and most would, feel free to ignore what he has said.
The whole point of the thanks button is to clean up thread noise, while still acknowledging someones effort or help. Nothing to do with social media.

But don't expect appreciation from beginners in general, maybe half will, the other half are just lazy or looking for someone to do their work. You have to accept that going in.

[Kean]

I don't care so much for the "Thanks", but the posters who never come back to respond or provide any update at all are the ones that annoy me.

[tggzzz]

I am a very experienced old guy, I almost never ask questions here, I answer them for fun and some diversion.  My sole motivation is helping and I'm dissappointed that more don't use the thanks button.

Acknowledgement and thanks is the biggest motivator in the world- bigger than money in my experience.

I completely understand your starting point and motivation.

The "thanks" mechanism has been abused. Currently about 30% of my posts have been "thanked", which is a ridiculously high proportion. One member (multiple names t*z, f*n, o*t, now banned) had the habit of thanking every post in his many threads, even the posts that were politely telling him he was an idiot. Similar abuses of "downvoting" are a serious issue on other forums (think cliques), but fortunately they won't be introduced here.

The biggest motivator? For me it is anyone that asks questions, thinks about the response, follows up pointers[1], and asks a thoughtful followup question.

I do use the "thanks" button sparingly, mainly to avoid making a "me too" post.

[1] demotivator: someone that wants me to spend my time poorly regurgitating good material that is available elsewhere. Too many of those, and I give them short shrift.

[RoGeorge]

I'm surprised at how few times people give a thanks or any acknowledgement.  Its kind of demotivating.  I come back and look at my post responses just to see that the posts end with my mine and there is nothing more.

- That doesn't mean your post was not appreciated, feeling disappointed is nothing but wrong expectations. 
- The lack of feedback doesn't mean you did wrong.
- The lack of thank you doesn't necessarily mean the OP is ungrateful.

This forum is more like a hang around/chat place, not a Q&A platform, so don't expect any score for answers.

Different people are using the thank you button differently.  For example, I usually mark with a thank you only those posts where from I've found out something new, something I didn't know before.  Sometimes I press thank you to encourage an OP that built something.

Then, if an OP were to be morally obliged to press the thank you button, then the OP should thank to each and every answer, which would make the button meaningless.  And if one post is left without a thank you, that poster will feel that as a thumb down vote, and will be discouraged to post in the future.

In a similar manner, explicitly posting only a thank you reply, or I agree, or alike but with no other content than to thank, will just add bloatware and in the same time will close the discussion.  Others won't post different solutions if a topic is marked as solved, which might be a loss.

Often, the most interesting findings (for other readers than the OP) are coming from the discussion that sprouts on the theme of an OP's question, and not from the answer itself.


As for the value and quality of your answers, you are one of the best on this forum, thank you for posting on EEVblog. 

[madires]

Of course, some appreciation is nice. But in today's world it's more like not receiving a complaint is the usual passive appreciation. Don't expect too much and enjoy each "thank you".

[tggzzz]

I don't care so much for the "Thanks", but the posters who never come back to respond or provide any update at all are the ones that annoy me.

It helps to be able to distinguish such people before I waste too much of my time.

While they are not definitive, for me negative indicators are only one or two posts, all posts are first posts, ill-thought out question, question sounds like they want us to do their work for them, question looks like it was an idle thought and they posted before thinking about it.

[Fraser]

Jwet,

You are not alone in your disappointment !

I specialise in thermal imaging equipment and it’s repair. I receive a lot of requests for help and have previously commented on the lack of response from the person asking for help, once I have supplied the information that they desired. I was brought up in a World where we appreciated the efforts of others to help us and we said so. That was pre-social media and I asked on the forum if “please” and “Thankyou” are words of the past. The replies surprised me. Amongst them were statements that “please” and “Thankyou” are considered a sign of weakness and subservience by some societies    I was also told to not expect thanks for help as it was my choice to help someone. People told me that, on forums, a simple “Thankyou”, or confirmation that the advice helped is considered “noise” and unwelcome. Sad times indeed. I was born in the 1960’s and these revelations were a bit of a shock for my old fashioned social etiquette. I recall talking to my father about this matter some time ago. His response shocked me… to quote him…. “Fraser, why are you surprised at the lack of thanks or response to the help that you provide these days ? To many asking you for help, you are nothing more than a human version of Google and no one thanks Google !” It is also evident that some people feel entitled to knowledge that was hard learnt by me over several decades. I have even been told that it is my duty to share my specialist knowledge willingly, and at no cost. A sort of “Open Source” human data repository ! I like to help others but few people like to be taken for granted, including me. In response to my disappointment with some people on this forum, I decided to pull back from social media and spend my time repairing the equipment that I love working on. I now only provide help to those who appear to be deserving of the time it takes to provide such. If a question is easily answered via Google or search of this forum, I will not provide comment.

On a happier note, I was very ill in 2010 and ended up with chronic fatigue syndrome (M.E) that I fight on a daily basis. Why is this a happier note ? … well I started a Go Fund Me to help me to get back on my feet as I have been unable to work full time since 2015 and finances are challenging. I have received an amazing response and some very generous donations from members of this forum. The comments that people have left via that Go Fund Me and on this forum have more than made up for the lack of any response or thanks from those who consider such as unnecessary “noise”. I am so grateful to those who acknowledge the help that I provide as it often involves a fair bit of my time and researching my data archives. This forum is a wonderful meeting place where I have made some great friends. It is a broad cross section of age groups, nationalities and social backgrounds which is great, but also means social incompatibilities are unavoidable.

Life is short, live it, and only provide help to others if it makes you happy and do not expect thanks in all cases, as you may be disappointed That does not mean that your help is wasted though. Your comments on the forum will be read by many and may help people in the future. Be proud that you have the knowledge that can help others…. You are an Oracle through a life of experiences and, in some cases, training. That is my view of the situation anyway 

Fraser

[Bud]

It is not that i do not care about Thanks, it is more than I post to share, Not to earn Thanks. Sorry but to me deciding if to continue to contributre based on Thanks is a woke mindset.

[Fraser]

A quote from Peter Drucker worthy of inclusion in this thread ……..

“Manners are the lubricating oil of an organization. It is a law of nature that two moving bodies in contact with each other create friction. This is as true for human beings as it is for inanimate objects. Manners- simple things like saying 'please' and 'thank you' and knowing a person’s name or asking after her family enable two people to work together whether they like each other or not. Bright people, especially bright young people, often do not understand this. If analysis shows that someone’s brilliant work fails again and again as soon as cooperation from others is required, it probably indicates a lack of courtesy – that is, a lack of manners.

Peter Drucker”

Who is Peter Drucker ? …..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker

[jwet]

This is interesting and has garnered way more attention that I dreamed.  The group seems split- a fraction thinking this "wokeism", some saying just give and don't worry about it and some seeing my point- that's healthy.  A thanks and a social media like are not the same.  I like the words of Peter Drucker.

I'm recently retired and trying to find my way in this new world.  I think I'll pay less attention to EEVblog and look at better outlets for my talents.

Thanks to all, I'll still be here just a little less often and prominently probably.

[shabaz]

Bright people, especially bright young people, often do not understand this.

Generally, I agree with most of what you wrote, but just on this point, I'm not so sure. Some of it is due to changing culture, perhaps, and, possibly, even how engineering is taught. You need social, collaborative events at college/uni for (say) introverts to get to know how to deal with others, and team events, even quizzes, sports, where there will be failures, but also empathy, etc., so people learn how to literally shake hands afterward and conduct post-mortems without embarrassment.

It's deeper than just 'thanks'. Getting things wrong and knowing how to deal with it is important. For instance, it's OK not to know something. But on forums (and sadly perhaps even in some firms), it can often be either ridiculed, or you're "minus-one'd", or people will misread and perceive they are being ridiculed because the culture in engineering and sciences or some vocations or some firms might be to expect to be the subject of such derision if you "mess up".

Self-inferiority, traumatic events, or stresses can lead one to think more inwardly and less considerate about others too. All manner of subtle things in life could cause it and perhaps get worse as people are supposed to mature.

Even if youngsters have not been brought up right, or if it doesn't come naturally to some, it can still be learned. There's a good book by the well-known Debrett's. Some of it is anachronistic, but it doesn't hurt to learn a bit of that at the same time. It also gives one a little confidence in many social circumstances throughout life, including work-related ones. I quite like the classic "I'm OK, You're OK" too. Sure that too is ancient, but there's still something to learn there. I'm sure some would even ridicule wanting to self-improve through reading these sorts of books. But better to leave a good impression than a bad one if you can in any interaction (not always possible; if you recognize someone is deliberately being argumentative and looking for a forum-fight (easy to spot sometimes; for instance, those who will call anything "woke" to see who will respond to that, or YouTube videos that start with a false premise and a question-mark), it may well be better to terminate the discussion; the more emotionally intelligent you are, the easier to do this; in some cases, it may wind up the other person more, but better that than escalate further and leave distaste for everyone to read through).

[Dundarave]

Seeking direct gratification for “good deeds”, on forums like this or in real life, requires that you accept that thanklessness comes with the territory. The dopamine hit of satisfaction for a helpful boost for someone or some group has to come from within, with the faith that the universe is now incrementally better than it was before your contribution.

That thought, and nothing else, is all that is guaranteed to you when you help out.

[tggzzz]

I'm recently retired and trying to find my way in this new world.  I think I'll pay less attention to EEVblog and look at better outlets for my talents.

Interesting train of thought.

Can I suggest that the recently retired benefit most from doing new things in a new world. IMHO sinking into a familiar rut is not a good way forward.

If you do find a better outlet for your talents, please let us know what it is and tell us why you feel it is better. I'm interested, and I suspect others might be as well. In the meantime, please realise that people do feel you help and are useful, even if they don't explicitly say so.

"Thanks" is a word that is too easily uttered, and hence can become a worthless gesture (or button click). Another example in the US: "Have a nice day" makes mw cringe. Meaningful "thanks" requires some form of demonstration.

As I said, for me a decent interesting conversation is all the thanks I need. That's a sufficient demonstration.

[wilfred]

I see the thanks getting used more often as a way to say I agree with this. I give a thanks when a someone has clearly taken time to craft a genuinely helpful post. And added real value for the forum reader. I never thank someone for sharing their opinion, they'd always be quite willing to do that.

Too many low value thanks demeans the thanks given to the genuinely helpful. It is a bit like 5-star reviews, only the truly exceptional uber ride should get a 5-star review. Anything just merely ordinary like showing up on time and getting you to your destination safely in a clean car should be just 2-3 stars. Nearer 3 perhaps. But if you see a 5 star review now what does it mean? Not a lot and you have to compare it to the 1 star reviews and take an average.  If you give a 2.5 star review for average service then you fear blowback.

So save the thanks for the truly worthy.



 

[shabaz]

I see the thanks getting used more often as a way to say I agree with this. I give a thanks when a someone has clearly taken time to craft a genuinely helpful post. And added real value for the forum reader. I never thank someone for sharing their opinion, they'd always be quite willing to do that.

Too many low value thanks demeans the thanks given to the genuinely helpful. It is a bit like 5-star reviews, only the truly exceptional uber ride should get a 5-star review. Anything just merely ordinary like showing up on time and getting you to your destination safely in a clean car should be just 2-3 stars. Nearer 3 perhaps. But if you see a 5 star review now what does it mean? Not a lot and you have to compare it to the 1 star reviews and take an average.  If you give a 2.5 star review for average service then you fear blowback.

So save the thanks for the truly worthy.

That example doesn't work, it's not a similar thing by any stretch. I suspect the Uber driver would prefer you to do them a favor and not leave a rating at all in that case. The expectation is to leave a 5-star rating unless there's a problem.

I'm not sure it's fair to deliberately provide a lower value rating solely on criteria you unilaterally decided upon for providing you with a satisfying - yet not exceptionally extraordinary - Uber ride.

[jwet]

tgggzz- very good point on doing new things...finding meaning in retirement is a challenge.

I come to this board like I go into electronic surplus equipment stores.  Its comforting and enertaininig to be around a bunch of familiar stuff and familiar questions.

Perhaps I'll take up the Piano- thanks "truly" for your thoughts

[Shock]

How many thanks did you expect to milk starting a thread on getting thanks? Just wondering if viable strategy.

You have a 1:2 ratio so I think you are fine lol. Makes me think this thread was a total troll as if you're helping no reply posts your batting average is way above most users here.

[jwet]

Its a great idea but wasn't what I was after.  It turns out to be pretty philosophical point about what we're all doing here, etc.  I've gotten some amazingly deep and intimate PM's from people about the existential pleasures of this forum.  It's fascinating as an observer.  I'm just lamenting the death of courtesy in the modern world and trying to understand.

[Bud]

I once was on a forum where the mod *required* members to start Every post with Hello or Good Day or similar. He banned people who did not. It was fucking boring, I left soon.

[shabaz]

Your unnecessary expletives are boring too! Maybe grow up, and learn to express yourself without them.

[tggzzz]

It's fascinating as an observer.  I'm just lamenting the death of courtesy in the modern world and trying to understand.

I'm not sure courtesy has died in the modern world, but it certainly has changed. That's always been happening, as illustrated by the changes in various "Guides to Good Etiquette" that have been published over the centuries. Occasionally you see newspaper/magazine articles highlighting some of the changes. Some of the changes are welcome, some less so. People tend to concentrate attention on the less welcome changes and take the welcome changes for granted.

That's entirely reasonable in the light of the changes in the last 40 years.

There are a couple of key differences between the time we were growing up and the time our children were growing up...

• then: Information was difficult to obtain and it often took a long time to obtain it. Books were expensive, so we used lending libraries. If the local library didn't have a book in stock, either you waited weeks for it to be returned or it took weeks to be transferred from another library. Consequently you devoured any information source carefully, to glean all the information it contained.
• now: Information is thrust at you, and the key life skill is to quickly decide what not to look at. That's the complete opposite! (And makes 99.9% of videos a big waste of time)
• then: you interacted with the few people around you, or occasionally with a someone over the telephone. Consequently you needed to take care not to "switch off" such interactions by unintentionally causing offence
• now: you can interact with tens of thousands of people, e.g. his forum nominally has 68000 members! Who cares if you irritate someone; there are plenty of other people and interactions. Dare you spend time/energy explicitly thanking someone, because that means you won't have time for other good interactions

Long ago in a foreign land I once made a gesture which means "good" here, but is very rude there. I realised what I had done, and the other party said something like "don't worry, I looked at your eyes and knew what you meant". While it is somewhat difficult to look at someone's eyes on the internet, it is possible to use other techniques to understand intent. I think it helps to use "other techniques" to understand what "thanking" means now.

[wilfred]

I see the thanks getting used more often as a way to say I agree with this. I give a thanks when a someone has clearly taken time to craft a genuinely helpful post. And added real value for the forum reader. I never thank someone for sharing their opinion, they'd always be quite willing to do that.

Too many low value thanks demeans the thanks given to the genuinely helpful. It is a bit like 5-star reviews, only the truly exceptional uber ride should get a 5-star review. Anything just merely ordinary like showing up on time and getting you to your destination safely in a clean car should be just 2-3 stars. Nearer 3 perhaps. But if you see a 5 star review now what does it mean? Not a lot and you have to compare it to the 1 star reviews and take an average.  If you give a 2.5 star review for average service then you fear blowback.

So save the thanks for the truly worthy.

That example doesn't work, it's not a similar thing by any stretch. I suspect the Uber driver would prefer you to do them a favor and not leave a rating at all in that case. The expectation is to leave a 5-star rating unless there's a problem.

I'm not sure it's fair to deliberately provide a lower value rating solely on criteria you unilaterally decided upon for providing you with a satisfying - yet not exceptionally extraordinary - Uber ride.

Thank You, for reminding me why it is bad to argue by analogy. The argument stands or falls on the strength of the analogy.  In reality the analogy of Uber was immaterial to the point and I should not have used it.