Author Topic: MIPS Open "open" licence...  (Read 2217 times)

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Offline DIPLover

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MIPS Open "open" licence...
« on: May 11, 2019, 08:45:34 am »
Some recent buzz about Wave Computing supposedly "open-sourcing" the venerable MIPS ISA, and how it would surely kill RISC-V in the egg, prompted me to investigate a bit, as this is an ISA I know quite well and rather like.

Well...
First you have to register in order to access anything.
The registration process insists on personal information and also contains a survey of what your intended uses are, and what you use currently.
Then you must agree to these terms :

MIPS Open™ Architecture License Agreement ver 1.0 (“Agreement”)

© 2019 MIPS Tech, LLC

THIS AGREEMENT CONSTITUTES A BINDING CONTRACT ON YOU AND GOVERNS YOUR USE OF THE MIPS OPEN DELIVERABLES.  By clicking “Accept” to this Agreement below, the person or entity so accepting (“You”) agree to be bound by this Agreement. If You are entering into this Agreement on behalf of a company, organization or other legal entity (an “Entity”), You are agreeing to this Agreement on behalf of that Entity and are representing to MIPS that You have the authority to bind such Entity to this Agreement, in which case the terms “You,” “Your” or a related capitalized term herein shall refer to such Entity. If You do not have such authority, or if You do not agree with this Agreement, You must not accept this Agreement and You do not have a license to use the MIPS Open Deliverables. An Entity does not include its subsidiaries or affiliates.  Each and every subsidiary or affiliate of such Entity must separately execute this Agreement in order to have access to and use the MIPS Open Deliverables.

The purpose of this Agreement is to establish the terms and conditions under which You may use and access the MIPS Open Deliverables as described herein and provided by MIPS Tech, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company (“MIPS”).

    Definitions:

(a)“MIPS Direct-Licensed Core” means any microprocessor core made generally available for license from MIPS or its affiliates or predecessors that was either (i) licensed by MIPS or its affiliate or predecessor, to You or Your affiliate, or (ii) developed by You or Your affiliate under rights licensed under a MIPS Architecture by MIPS or its affiliate or predecessor.

(b)“MIPS Architecture” means the RISC technology processor instruction set architecture (“ISA”) or any application specific extension (“ASE”) to such architecture, and any associated privileged resource architecture (“PRA”) developed by or for MIPS or its predecessor entities.

(c)“MIPS Open Architecture” means Release 6 of the 32 bit and 64 bit MIPS Architecture developed by or for MIPS or its predecessors and licensed under this Agreement (which includes the first version of the MIPS SIMD instruction set architecture, but excludes subsequent MIPS SIMD instruction set architectures and the nanoMIPS instruction set architecture).  The licenses under this Agreement do not cover or include any earlier or subsequent version of the MIPS Open Architecture, or any other version of a MIPS Architecture.

(d)“MIPS Open Architecture IP Rights” means MIPS’ copyrights, patents, patent applications, and other intellectual property rights in the MIPS Open Deliverables delivered to You by MIPS (or a MIPS Open Architecture licensee of this Agreement in compliance with its license under this Agreement). “MIPS Open Architecture IP Rights” do not include copyrights, patents, patent applications or other intellectual property rights (i) that cover implementations of any MIPS Architecture or microprocessor core (including Direct-Licensed Cores and MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Cores) except to the extent that such rights are necessary to implement the MIPS Open Architecture in accordance with this Agreement or (ii) that are owned or held by any affiliate or parent company of MIPS or any entity other than MIPS.

(e)“MIPS Open Deliverables” means deliverables for the MIPS Open Architecture or MIPS Open Tools made available by MIPS under this Agreement for You to download from the MIPS Open website upon Your acceptance of this Agreement, as updated from time to time, and includes without limitation MIPS Open Documentation.

(f)“MIPS Open Documentation” means the technical reference manuals for the MIPS Open Architecture.

(g)“MIPS Open Mark(s)” means the MIPS Open CERTIFIED™ mark and logo, and other marks and logos if designated by MIPS as applicable to a MIPS Open license.

(h)“MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core” means a microprocessor core that is an implementation of the MIPS Open Architecture and that (1) You developed independently and internally in compliance with this Agreement  (a “MIPS Open Independent Core”), and (2) has been certified in writing as passing the compatibility verification process under the MIPS Open Architecture (“MIPS Open CERTIFIED”) by MIPS or a MIPS-designated third-party verification provider (each, a “MIPS Open Verification Partner”).   A MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core does not include any: (i) MIPS Open Independent Core that is not MIPS Open CERTIFIED, (ii) core developed in whole or in part from a MIPS Direct-Licensed Core, or (iii) core licensed or provided to You by a third party (unless such core is a MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core that You licensed from a MIPS Open licensee in accordance with this Agreement).

(i)“MIPS Open Tools” under this Agreement means the software, firmware, tools and documentation identified by MIPS as “MIPS Open” under the MIPS Open Architecture, which are posted and accessible in digital form for authorized licensees which are made available by MIPS on MIPS’ designated website(s).

    Verification:

Before manufacturing or commercializing any core implementation of the MIPS Open Architecture licensed under this Agreement, You must ensure that any such core implementation is a MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core (including if you have licensed such MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core from another licensee of the MIPS Open Architecture).  You must notify MIPS in writing of each MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core within thirty (30) days of such verification by a MIPS Open Verification Partner.  You agree to provide upon request by MIPS or its authorized MIPS Open Verification Partner, information demonstrating that such implementation in its current format is a MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core.

    License:

(a)MIPS Open Architecture.Provided that You comply with the terms and conditions of this Agreement (including Section 2 (Verification) and Section 12 (MIPS Open Development Covenants)), MIPS hereby grants You a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, non-transferable (except as provided in Section 13) right and license (without rights of sublicense except as provided in subsection 3(a)(iii) below) solely under the MIPS Open Architecture IP Rights, to:

(i)access and use the MIPS Open Deliverables internally to develop MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Cores, for incorporation into Your products or tools (or your authorized licensee’s products or tools under subsection (iii) below), provided that Your right to access and use the MIPS Open Tools is subject to subsection 3(b) below;

(ii)make, have made, use, sell, offer for sale and import the MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Cores as incorporated in Your products; and

(iii)sublicense a MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core to another person or entity that is legally authorized to enter into this Agreement, and that has entered into and provided an executed copy of this Agreement to MIPS.

(b)MIPS Open Tools.Access and use of the MIPS Open Tools are subject to any applicable additional terms and conditions for each such software, firmware, tools and documentation on the applicable MIPS website(s).  If such software, firmware, tools and documentation is provided to You under a separate open source or other license agreement, such tool is licensed under such separate license agreement and not under this Agreement.

(c)Trademark License.Subject to Your compliance with this Agreement, including the restrictions in Sections 2 (Verification) and Section 12 (MIPS Open Development Covenants), MIPS grants to You a non-exclusive, limited, revocable, worldwide, non-transferable (except as provided in Section 13), paid-up, royalty-free license (without rights of sublicense except to a valid licensee of the MIPS Open Architecture) to use the MIPS Open Mark(s) solely in connection with any promotion, sale or distribution of the MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Cores. You may use the MIPS Open Mark(s) in accordance with this Agreement and MIPS’ trademark usage guidelines posted at https://mipsopen.org/trademarks/.  You may apply the MIPS Open Mark(s) only to Your product and materials in which You are verified by a MIPS Open Verification Partner.  You acknowledge that MIPS owns the MIPS Open Mark(s) and that all goodwill from Your use of the MIPS Open Mark(s) shall inure to the benefit of MIPS.  You hereby assign to MIPS all right, title and interest in the MIPS Open Mark(s) that may accrue to You by operation of law, together with all goodwill attaching thereto that may inure to You in connection with this Agreement or from its use of the MIPS Open Mark(s). Except as otherwise set forth in this Agreement or another valid written agreement with MIPS, You are prohibited from any use of MIPS trademarks.  You agree that You will not use the MIPS Open Mark(s) in a way that is likely to cause confusion, disparage MIPS’ (or its affiliates’) product or services, injure its reputation or otherwise diminish or damage its goodwill in its MIPS Open Mark(s).  You will not at any time contest or aid in contesting the validity or ownership of the MIPS Open Mark(s) or any other marks owned by MIPS or its affiliates or take any action in derogation of MIPS’s rights therein. You will not adopt or register in any jurisdiction any of MIPS trademarks, service marks or certification marks, or mutilate or otherwise modify MIPS Open Mark(s). This trademark license shall immediately and automatically terminate if You breach this Agreement (including this trademark license).

(d)Prohibition Against Exceeding License.You are not licensed to, and You agree not to, (I) exceed the scope of the licenses granted in this Agreement, or (II) license (whether proprietary or open source), disclose or otherwise provide any cores developed hereunder or any MIPS Open Deliverables licensed hereunder to third parties including Your affiliates, or otherwise use the MIPS Open Architecture, MIPS Open Deliverables or MIPS Open Architecture IP Rights, except in strict compliance with this Agreement or as expressly authorized in writing by MIPS.

(e)No Modification of MIPS Open Architecture.Unless expressly stated and specifically authorized in the MIPS Open Documentation, You are not licensed to, and You agree not to, subset, superset or otherwise modify, augment or enhance the instructions, features or functional behavior of the MIPS Open Architecture.

    No Implied Rights; Limitations:

The license under this Agreement is granted solely by MIPS Tech, LLC, and is only granted to You (and not to third parties including Your affiliates). You are not licensed under this Agreement to (a) any MIPS Direct-Licensed Cores or any other cores (except Your rights under this Agreement with respect to a MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core), (b) any MIPS Architecture other than the MIPS Open Architecture, or (c) modify or in any way include under the scope of this Agreement any MIPS Direct-Licensed Core or any other core or architecture licensed separately to You or Your affiliate by MIPS or a third party.  This Agreement does not apply to or affect any products or technologies You or Your affiliates licensed or purchased separately from MIPS or its affiliates, and this Agreement does not amend, supplement or substitute the terms of other agreements between MIPS or its affiliates, and You or Your affiliates.  You do not receive any rights hereunder, expressly, by implication, estoppel or otherwise other than the rights expressly granted in this Agreement.

    MIPS Ownership:

MIPS retains all ownership in and to the MIPS Open Architecture, other MIPS Architectures, MIPS Open Architecture IP Rights, MIPS Open Deliverables, MIPS Direct-Licensed Cores and all intellectual property rights therein. You retain Your ownership in Your products developed, manufactured and sold or distributed by You subject to MIPS’ underlying ownership rights described in the previous sentence.  You may, but are not required to, provide suggestions, proposal, ideas, recommendations or other feedback, in any form (“Feedback”), to MIPS. To the extent You elect to provide any Feedback to MIPS, You hereby grant to MIPS a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully-paid, sublicensable, transferable, non-exclusive, worldwide right and license to make, have made, use, sell, offer for sale, import, export, distribute, modify, create derivative works of, disclose and otherwise exploit such Feedback in any manner without restriction.

    No Warranties:

ALL RIGHTS AND ANY ITEMS PROVIDED BY MIPS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE MIPS OPEN ARCHITECTURE AND MIPS OPEN DELIVERABLES) ARE PROVIDED “AS IS” WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES BY MIPS OR ITS AFFILIATES.  ANY REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES FROM MIPS OR ITS AFFILIATES WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN IMPLIED OR INCORPORATED INTO THIS AGREEMENT, WHETHER BY STATUTE, COMMON LAW OR OTHERWISE, ARE HEREBY EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NON-INFRINGEMENT AND TITLE.  You acknowledge that third party hardware, software, tools, or other intellectual property (“Third Party IP”) may be required to implement the MIPS Open Architecture and provide a MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core.  You shall be responsible for obtaining all permissions, licenses, and consents necessary for to use any Third Party IP.  ALL THIRD PARTY IP IS PROVIDED “AS-IS” AND WITHOUT ANY REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.

    Indemnification:

You will defend, indemnify and hold harmless MIPS and its affiliates and their respective representatives, officers, directors, employees and agents (collectively, “Covered Entities”), from and against any demand, suit, action, liability, damages, cost and expense including reasonable attorney’s fees (“Indemnified Claim”) arising out of or in connection with: (a) Your breach of this Agreement, or (b) the design, manufacture, sale or distribution of Your products incorporating MIPS Open Deliverables. MIPS may elect to defend or settle any part of such Indemnified Claim in its sole discretion, retaining its own counsel at MIPS’ own expense. You may not enter into any license or settlement agreement regarding any Indemnified Claim that might adversely affect any Covered Entities or require any Covered Entities to take any action, forebear from taking any action, or waive any rights, without MIPS’ prior written consent.

    Support:

No rights of maintenance or support are offered or implied under this Agreement. You may purchase support from MIPS or a MIPS Verification Partner if you so choose under a separate written agreement, but You are not obligated to do so.

    Compliance. Export Control:

Your rights under this Agreement are preconditioned upon Your compliance with U.S. and other applicable laws and regulations. Your license under this Agreement shall terminate immediately if Your access to or use of any MIPS Open Deliverables or exercise of this Agreement violates U.S. or other applicable laws or regulations. The technology that is the subject of this Agreement is controlled by U.S. export control laws and may be subject to the expert or import laws in other countries. The MIPS Open Architecture, MIPS Open Deliverables and any MIPS Open CERTIFIED Independent Core shall not be exported, reexported, transferred, or released, directly or indirectly, in violation of the law of any country or international law, regulation, treaty, executive order, statute, amendments or supplements thereto.  Exercise of any licenses under this Agreement or use of technology provided hereunder in connection with nuclear, missile, chemical weapons, biological weapons or nuclear maritime end uses, whether direct or indirect, is strictly prohibited.

    Limitation of Liability:

TO THE FULLEST EXTENT NOT PROHIBITED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MIPS OR ANY OF ITS AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, LOSSES OR OTHER LIABILITY, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY DIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, STATUTORY, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY OR SPECIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES AND ANY DAMAGES OR LOSSES FROM LOST PROFITS OR REVENUES, AND WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT OR YOUR PERFORMANCE UNDER THE AGREEMENT, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

    Term and Termination:

The term of this Agreement shall begin on the Effective Date and continue unless terminated as provided in this Agreement (“Term”). If You breach this Agreement and fail to remedy such breach within thirty (30) days after written notice from MIPS, this Agreement shall automatically terminate. Sections 2, and 4 through 14 inclusive, of this Agreement shall survive termination, and MIPS reserves its rights and remedies in the event of termination.

    MIPS Open Development Covenants:

(a)To preserve MIPS’ and MIPS’ Community Members’ ability to continue to update, enhance, develop and commercialize MIPS Products, You hereby perpetually and irrevocably agree that You will not enforce or assert, or authorize or assist any third party (including any affiliate) to enforce or assert, any MIPS Blocking Patents in connection with, or in a manner which in any way limits, hampers or prevents, the use, design, development, modification, enhancement, testing, making, copying, offering to sell, selling, importing and licensing or other distribution, by any MIPS Community Member of (a) MIPS Products or any implementation thereof (whether unmodified or as components of or incorporated in products), and (b) tools pertaining to MIPS Products.

“MIPS Blocking Patents” means all claims contained in patents or patent applications owned by, licensed to or assigned to You or Your affiliates, which (i) cover any MIPS Architectures, MIPS cores (i.e., any functional block of integrated circuits implementing MIPS technology in whole or in part including MIPS Direct-Licensed Cores), MIPS Open Deliverables and any modifications or derivative works of any of the foregoing (all items in (i) collectively, “MIPS Products”), or (ii) are necessary to implement MIPS Products.

 “MIPS Community Member” means MIPS, its distributors, resellers, OEMs, agents, affiliates, customers, tools vendors, licensees (through multiple tiers of licensing and sublicensing) or end users in any country.

(b)If You or Your affiliates, agents, representatives or assignees file, threaten to or bring a claim against, or voluntarily participate in or induce a third party to seek to invalidate, any patent or other intellectual property right of MIPS or its affiliate related to any MIPS Products, either unmodified or as incorporated into products, technology or tools of any MIPS Community Members (any of the foregoing, a “MIPS Adverse Claim”), then Your rights and licenses under this Agreement shall immediately and automatically terminate and You shall reimburse MIPS for its attorneys’ fees and costs incurred in connection with its defense against such MIPS Adverse Claim.

    General:

By entering into this Agreement, You give permission to MIPS and its affiliates to identify You as an Entity participating in a MIPS Open program in MIPS publications and/or websites. If MIPS updates this Agreement by publishing such update on the MIPS Open website, any subsequent download of MIPS Open Deliverables from the MIPS Open website following such publication shall be governed by the updated Agreement. This Agreement contains the entire agreement between the parties concerning the matters contained herein and supersedes any prior or contemporaneous discussions or representations of any party. This Agreement may not be modified expect by a writing duly executed by both parties. This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of California, USA without reference to conflicts of law principles. You hereby expressly consent to the personal jurisdiction of the state and federal courts located in Santa Clara County, California USA for any disputes arising from or related to this Agreement. You may not assign, transfer or delegate any rights under this Agreement (including by operation of law, merger, consolidation or change of control) without MIPS’ prior written consent and any such attempted transfer shall be null and void. Subject to the foregoing, this Agreement shall be binding upon and shall inure to the benefit of the parties to this Agreement and their permitted successors and assigns.

    U.S. Government Rights – Commercial Software:

Any licensee under this Agreement that is a government user is subject to MIPS’ standard license agreement and applicable provisions of FAR and its supplements. If You are permitted hereunder to provide any software, documentation, and/or related items and technology provided hereunder to any agency of the U.S. or of any state or local government, You will include this provision in any agreement governing the provision of such items.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 08:48:16 am by DIPLover »
 

Offline DIPLover

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 08:47:45 am »
And then, once you're done agreeing, you must enter a description of your intended use of the ISA documentation, in english please, to be reviewed within 3 business days and MAYBE they will let you download.

 :wtf:

WTF was all that buzz about "Open source" in the tech press?

This is a completely traditional commercial licensing agreement.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 12:27:52 pm by DIPLover »
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2019, 09:30:29 am »
Tech press is clueless. It is pretty clear that MIPS is going down the drain and they are grasping for straws.

It was open the same exact way for years for the university program. And it was just as impossible to actually get your hands on.

And interestingly, the code has not leaked. While ARM's DesignStart leaked many times over before it was officially available to everyone. It is probably because nobody really cares to see MIPS code. Or it was really tough to get it.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 09:33:12 am by ataradov »
Alex
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 07:18:03 pm »
Interesting.

A summary of what I got from that (my personal reading only, unrelated to my current employer, and I am not a lawyer):

- the only purpose for which you may use the MIPS ISA specification in the MIPS Open Deliverables is to develop a compatible processor which you will have certified by MIPS

- it appears that you may NOT develop your own core, use it yourself at home or in a private project or embedded in some product and it happens to run MIPS code (e.g. OSes and applications) but you don't tell anyone about it and don't get it certified.

- not only must you get any core you develop certified (is there a cost to this?) but you can't put it on github, because that would allow people who haven't agreed to MIPS' license to access it.

- you can't subset or superset the ISA. 100% compatible only. No extensions. No leaving out the unaligned loads/stores :-)

- the actually interesting modern MIPS ISA -- nanoMIPS -- is not included.
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 04:39:49 pm »
I was actually getting pretty interested in MIPS Open before it actually launched. But the license agreement they came out with clearly sucks.

Not sure what additional benefit there is compared to before MIPS Open, if we still need to get the cores certified by MIPS, something we don't even know whether it's free or not. May cost an arm and a leg. So what's the benefit and how open is that? The "no extension" policy is also terrible.

Now I can understand that going fully open would have been a pretty bold move. I understand allowing anyone to design a MIPS core, call it that and sell it, could harm MIPS' reputation, as they are still a for-profit business. Imagine some "MIPS"-tagged processors get on the market and they are utter crap. Not good for MIPS I suppose, so I can understand the "getting certified" part, if that is the real reason of course... which I don't know.

The sad part would be for MIPS to go down that path and die. Maybe they'll go fully open-source at this point. Or maybe they'll just die with their specs and licensing schemes.
 

Offline bloguetronica

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2019, 11:21:23 am »
MIPS, aka, Synopsys, aka, same shit on a different package. I expect such software to be as open as a watertight submarine abandoned in the very bottom of the Mariana trench with its hull intact (it is watertight, isn't it?).

Anyway, I avoid MIPS/Synopsys technology as far as I can. It is basically crap. They don't learn with their mistakes, and they seldom release failed designs and pass them off as being great and innovative. Anyway, what would you expect of a company ran by psychopathic managers?

By the way, I'm very "fond" (sarcasm) of the following:

"You will defend, indemnify and hold harmless MIPS and its affiliates and their respective representatives, officers, directors, employees and agents (collectively, “Covered Entities”), from and against any demand, suit, action, liability, damages, cost and expense including reasonable attorney’s fees (“Indemnified Claim”) arising out of or in connection with: (a) Your breach of this Agreement, or (b) the design, manufacture, sale or distribution of Your products incorporating MIPS Open Deliverables. MIPS may elect to defend or settle any part of such Indemnified Claim in its sole discretion, retaining its own counsel at MIPS’ own expense. You may not enter into any license or settlement agreement regarding any Indemnified Claim that might adversely affect any Covered Entities or require any Covered Entities to take any action, forebear from taking any action, or waive any rights, without MIPS’ prior written consent."

I will defend? LOL. Are these guys entitled millennials? This is very laughable.  :-DD

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 11:26:44 am by bloguetronica »
 

Offline delfinom

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 03:51:41 pm »
MIPS, aka, Synopsys, aka, same shit on a different package. I expect such software to be as open as a watertight submarine abandoned in the very bottom of the Mariana trench with its hull intact (it is watertight, isn't it?).

Anyway, I avoid MIPS/Synopsys technology as far as I can. It is basically crap. They don't learn with their mistakes, and they seldom release failed designs and pass them off as being great and innovative. Anyway, what would you expect of a company ran by psychopathic managers?

By the way, I'm very "fond" (sarcasm) of the following:

"You will defend, indemnify and hold harmless MIPS and its affiliates and their respective representatives, officers, directors, employees and agents (collectively, “Covered Entities”), from and against any demand, suit, action, liability, damages, cost and expense including reasonable attorney’s fees (“Indemnified Claim”) arising out of or in connection with: (a) Your breach of this Agreement, or (b) the design, manufacture, sale or distribution of Your products incorporating MIPS Open Deliverables. MIPS may elect to defend or settle any part of such Indemnified Claim in its sole discretion, retaining its own counsel at MIPS’ own expense. You may not enter into any license or settlement agreement regarding any Indemnified Claim that might adversely affect any Covered Entities or require any Covered Entities to take any action, forebear from taking any action, or waive any rights, without MIPS’ prior written consent."

I will defend? LOL. Are these guys entitled millennials? This is very laughable.  :-DD

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

That's a generic American liability statement to say you cannot blame them if the processor fails and kills or damages someone. It's not unusual at all and pretty copy and paste from any commercial software license agreement.
It's because in America, the victim of an event and lawyers will attempt to sue everyone, including the makers of the user manual for a product. So when a lawsuit is made agaisnt MIPS but it's related to your product, they can have the case dismissed and point them back to suing you instead.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 03:54:26 pm by delfinom »
 

Offline legacy

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 10:28:55 pm »
I was actually getting pretty interested in MIPS Open before it actually launched. But the license agreement they came out with clearly sucks.

They *had* customers like SGI, so ...



Do you know what I do really find that it's bad? That there is still no doc released for the SGI/MIPS hardware (except for the IP22 toy), neither there is doc for the R14K and R16K CPUs :palm:

Supporting the SMP has been done reverse engineering IRIX, but you cannot mention it, neither you can mention something that you *might* find by googling on the underground internet looking for a copy of the doc for the Xbox chip because if you do, and if you mention it in the source, you will get some pretty legal threats. That's what still does suck!
 

Offline legacy

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 10:43:06 pm »
It was open the same exact way for years for the university program. And it was just as impossible to actually get your hands on.

Oh well, it was the far 1999 when we studied the R2K and R3K at school, and we hacked the Playstation1 to actually get our hands-on. I remember I removed the BIOS, and then I modified the serial port to make it RS232, and I developed my first ROM-emulator, which was slow and ugly, but decent enough to play with the CPU.

Then ... SPIM (2001) arrived in our labs, and then MARS(2003). Both are R3K software simulators, still used in labs.
 

Offline DIPLover

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2019, 09:22:29 pm »
Received this email today, from legal@mipsopen.com :

-------------------------------------------
MIPS Open™ Initiative

Wave Computing, Inc. and its subsidiaries ("Wave") regretfully announce the closing of the MIPS Open™ Initiative ("MIPS Open"), and hereby give Notice of the same effective November 14, 2019 ("Effective Date").

Effective immediately, Wave will no longer be offering free downloads of MIPS Open components, including the MIPS architecture, cores, tools, IDE, simulators, FPGA packages, and/or any software code or computer hardware related thereto, licensed under any of the (i) MIPS  Open  Architecture License  Agreement (ver. 1.0), (ii) MIPS  Open  Core  License  Agreement ver. 1.0 For the microAptiv UC Core, (iii) MIPS Open Core License Agreement  ver. 1.0 For the microAptiv UP Core, and/or (iv) MIPS Open FPGA License Agreement ver. 1.0 (collectively, "MIPS Open Components"). In addition, all MIPS Open accounts will be closed as of the Effective Date.

While current active licenses and previous downloads of MIPS Open Components, and any certifications related thereto, will continue to be honored, Wave recommends its developers, partners and customers restrict further development, as Wave will no longer provide maintenance or support for any of the MIPS Open Components licensed under MIPS Open. In addition, Wave is no longer authorizing any third-party certifications as of the Effective Date.

In order to certify MIPS Open Components  downloaded  prior  to  this  Notice, Wave Computing must be contacted within the next 30 days by directly using the following contact information:

 

Wave Computing, Inc.

Attn: Legal

3201 Scott Blvd, Santa Clara 95054

Copy to legal@mipsopen.com

For developers, partners and customers who elect to continue development of one or more of the MIPS Open Components previously downloaded, all covenants and obligations set forth in the corresponding license agreements will continue to remain in full force and effect  notwithstanding the termination of MIPS Open, including the following  sections  set forth in the respective license agreements: (i) No Warranties, (ii) Indemnification, (iii) Compliance (Export Control), Limitation of  Liability, Term and Termination, MIPS Open Development Covenants, and U.S. Government Rights - Commercial Software.

MIPS retains all ownership in and to the MIPS Open Architecture, other MIPS Architectures, MIPS Open  FPGA, MIPS  Open  FPGA IP Rights, MIPS  Open  FPGA Deliverables,  MIPS  Direct­ Licensed Cores and all intellectual property rights therein.
----------------------------------------------------



And yet, RISC-V still lives! :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 09:24:14 pm by DIPLover »
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2019, 09:47:07 pm »
Art Swift https://www.linkedin.com/in/artswift/ went from RISC-V startup Esperanto to CEO of Wave in December last year. I believe he was the spearhead and impetus behind the MIPS Open Initiative, such as it was.

Art went back as President of Esperanto in September, so this announcement doesn't come as a huge surprise.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 10:03:45 pm »
MIPS isn't dead yet, but I'll just note here that no company or group of companies can ever make an arbitrary business decision that takes away your right to run RISC-V programs you have have written or licensed. You will always have the right to make or have made RISC-V CPUs using whatever current technology you want, or to use new or existing software emulators. User mode QEMU, for example, currently runs RISC-V binaries on x86 at around 25% to 30% of native speed, which these days is pretty fast. That is likely to improve if someone puts effort into it -- 60% to 80% seems well achievable https://carrv.github.io/2017/papers/clark-rv8-carrv2017.pdf
 

Offline brucehoult

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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2019, 05:58:34 pm »
https://www.hackster.io/news/wave-computing-closes-its-mips-open-initiative-with-immediate-effect-zero-warning-e88b0df9acd0

This is completely mind-boggling and unexcusable.

What exactly is "Wave Computing"'s strategy?

Note: funnily enough, the mipsopen.com web site is still active. They have just removed the sign-up page (and a few other pages), with just a "page not found", but with absolutely no warning or any mention that the initiative has been closed. It all looks like they are doing this in a rush. What happened exactly?

« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 06:06:40 pm by SiliconWizard »
 

Offline DIPLover

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2019, 06:26:03 pm »
I'm still wondering WHAT exactly was "open" about MIPSOpen, if anything ever was...
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2019, 10:12:43 pm »
I agree, but the stop of whatever was attempted still seems to be happening in a rush, and I'm wondering why.

Could that perhaps mean that either Wave Computing is going to merge with a bigger fish shortly, or that it's going to sell the MIPS stuff... ::)
 

Online imo

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2019, 07:53:36 am »
https://www.eetasia.com/news/article/CEO-Quietly-Exits-Wave-Computing-After-4-Months
Quote
Jim McGregor, principal analyst at Tirias Research agreed. Wave must be “looking at all options at this point. Buying MIPS was not a good idea.”
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2019, 10:07:22 am »
If I've got this straight:

SGI paid $333m for MIPS in 1992
Imagination Technologies paid $100m for MIPS in 2013
Tallwood Venture Capital paid $65m for MIPS in 2017
Wave paid $??m for MIPS in 2018.

I have an SGI Indy with a 32 bit graphics card and 133 MHz MIPS R4400 CPU that I bought used in the mid 90s. Lovely machine at the time. Sad to see the decline of MIPS.
 

Online imo

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2019, 10:18:33 am »
It seems to me MIPS is still looking for where to position their architecture.
Imagination claimed ".. great for graphics"..
Wave claimed ".. great for AI"..
XX will claim ".. great for ??"..
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 05:28:15 am »
Really weird there's only that one hackster article about this still.
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: MIPS Open "open" licence...
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2019, 05:29:49 am »
This is a physical manifestation of "literally no one cares". I guess it also reflects the reason for closing the whole thing.
Alex
 


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