Author Topic: Open Source Multimeter  (Read 278297 times)

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Offline slateraptor

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #200 on: April 23, 2012, 03:29:59 pm »
You mean something like this?
...
It is a very useful concept except all the difficulties in making it actually work ::).

LMFAO!! :P
 

jucole

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #201 on: April 24, 2012, 04:11:29 pm »
No such place yet afaik. Actually I'm not sure I've seen a strong collaboration on any OSHW project yet, let alone the need to lower the participation threshold.
The community does not know yet how to handle collaboration when the item in question is an actual physical object to be sold for profit. There is no unit of measurement for contribution.

I stumbled on a Kickstarter project which are developing a sourceforge site for openhardware, which can be found here http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/373493158/open-hardware-needs-a-sourceforge-of-its-own  They actually got their funding too, and this is the site they are building https://opendesignengine.net/ - looks a little like a dog's dinner, but it might be promising. They are sponsored by a Mac30 http://mach30.org/  Mac30 are looking into opensource space flight!! So. you never know in a few years time you might well be traveling out on a flight on your holiday, and hear "Good afternoon, welcome aboard the Airbus openhardware beta release flight ...." ;-)


 

Offline danielpublic

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #202 on: May 04, 2012, 05:59:13 am »
First post, so Hi there!

Woke up about three hours ago with an idea (who knows when that one comes around the bend again..) and spent time doodling in FreeCAD (its FLOSS with a great community & rapid dev.) till an half hour ago I saw dealextreme shipped my multimeter.

Whereupon I thought: "Oh, hey... wonder if there is an opensource multimeter out there?"
Then I slapped my forehead mosquito-hard... well I should of thought of that maybe before I ordered it >:(, especially as I have a lifelong crush on the (free) open source realm.

I'll read the thread in a bit and look for some general pcb etc dimensional measurements. Cool to just fiddle with it in the mentioned CAD application and then print it with my RepRap.

Anyhow, what I'd use it for other than the usual:

  • Would be really cool if I could learn about electronics, breadboard tuts. so forth.
  • Would be very Nice to etch a pcb then supply a list measure between x+y and then chirp happily at me and err but most of all simple trouble shooting and generate a LOG that I could share with the wise folk. ('HI GUISE')

I mean... image a easily diy home etched reprap pcb, soldered, powered and tested with one device. Now that would deserve the seal of approval. err... of course maybe not soldered with the multimeter that... could one probably develop a halfassed thrown together from a fdm-hotend if needed.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 06:05:32 am by danielpublic »
 

jucole

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #203 on: August 09, 2012, 05:59:17 pm »
My friends and I have been developing an open source multimeter. I wanted to do a case design for a kick starter video, and i would like people to tell me what they think of the case so I can make it look as good as possible.

Hi, just wondering if you've managed to make any progress on your project?

regards
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #204 on: August 10, 2012, 09:38:16 am »
I think that cost is one of the less important issues. Since this is open hardware, you can expect people to want to build it on their own. For example they can buy bare PCB and then assemble those. If for example they don't want/need/can't afford LCR measurement (eg. because of expensive IC used in it) they simply don't assemble this module. Simple as that.

Another approach is to offer a 'motherboard' assembled (containing MCU, power management, display control, comm interfaces) with some 'standarized' pinout connectors. Connectors would need to carry isolated power supply, comm bus (RS485?+some paralell). Then every individual module would be an add on with obvious possibility of building your own module even on breadboard.

I think that this is an approach that would allow to sell kits to biggest group of people, because everyone could find an affordable configuration and possibly upgrade later. That way people from poorer countries (like myself) could easily contribute to the project while you would still be able to sell fully assembled and full-featured version to people who can afford those.

The opnly problem is that it would take significant amount of system and software engineering to make whole system configurable and scalable, but it's definitely doable.

As for the enclosure, for sure custom shapes are a dead end. Tooling for industrial methods of production (like injection molding) is extremly expensive and in most cases a minor mistake in design means that you need to pay this tooling fee once again. I like the idea of extrusion-based enclosure designed for Eurocard size pcb. 100x160 is actually a plenty of space to implement stuff (I'm generally a type of pervert who like to cram as much stuff on smallest area of pcb possible - i just feel that abusing pcb space is an unnecessary waste :D)
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Offline crispus

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #205 on: September 18, 2012, 02:55:54 pm »
Hi guys,

In these 15 pages there a lot of things that should contain a DMM. I think for sure that analog front-end is one of common subsytems.

My analog knowledge is limited. Does anybody volunteers to design analog front-end?

Has anybody some good readings about designing analog front-end? What are the pitfalls? What should contain? What shouldn't?

Thanks.
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Offline Stoney

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #206 on: March 05, 2013, 08:50:02 pm »
Hi Folks,

first post on this forum, so: Hi all  :)

Sad to see that this nice idea has not been updated in quiet some time. I'd really like to contribute to a open dvm project...so why don't we get started on this one  ;)

How about getting some basic high-level requirements done and fixed to reanimate this topic? Here are my recommendations:

1. Modular Design: AFEs with a central medium micro, let's say a STM32F4 (done some nice stuff with this one; plenty of computing power, nice peripherals, etc. )

2. For most of the proposed functions, we need to accurately measure VDC (Ohm, Amps, VDC, VAC, not so sure about the LC-Stuff). I think it may be possible to achieve 6 x/x digits (somewhere around 2999999 counts, around 22 noise-free bits).
2.1 Guess it would be a good idea to go with a custom integrating adc. I'd suggest a multi-slope design (first up multi-slope rundown, not sure if we need continuous runup). This     would give us decent speed with a nice accuracy. After all, an integrating adc isn't that hard to do...
2.2 The controller and auto-ranging would be implemented in an FPGA (Xess offers some cheap Spartan-6 LX25 modules), presumeably at a speed >50Mhz for the integrator time base.
2.3 Add decent protection circuits on the input, to comply with some CAT rating
2.4 Decade (bought) resistor network for 5 switchable ranges: 200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V, 2000V
2.5 Make sure that the buffer in front of the ADC is reasonably high quality (noise isn't that much of a problem for an integrating adc, if it's designed properly)

3. With the DVM capability, we could then build additional building blocks for current measurement, resistance (with precision current source), etc.

4. Figure out how to do VACrms. If the adc is fast enough - do it in software. Otherwise, use a COTS component (sorry, aerospace term here  ;D) or build the circuit (nope, don't want to do that  :o)

5. Of course bench-type one. No handheld.

I'll go ahead and do a sys-architecture drawing the next days for the VDC front-end with the basic modules.

So long,
Stoney
 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 09:02:21 pm by Stoney »
 

Offline crispus

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #207 on: March 06, 2013, 02:43:05 pm »
Hi Stoney. Welcome.

I'm interested,  but I lack in analog.
I think that a modular approach is the best because it gives anyone the freedom of choice.
Analog front-end is the common part of any multimeter. Can you do it? :D
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Offline Stoney

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #208 on: March 07, 2013, 12:58:15 am »
I'm also not quite THE expert yet...I'm more into embedded computing for airborne use, but I've done some fairly complex PCBs (6 layer+, BGAs, High Speed, etc.) with no more than 2 revisions, so I guess I'm not that stupid after all...my hope is to get a guru to have a look at the schematics once they're done to give some negative feedback  ;) Based on the requirements, I'm going to: First up, high-level block diagram and split the work. Second, do modular building blocks people can work on "independently" and put their unique knowledge into...to make it better than I ever could...  :)

There are some crucial building blocks, but with todays parts, its getting easier every day to do precision stuff. But, as I said, we have to get the requirements right and establish a baseline to work on. With the modular design in mind, I would add another requirement:

6. The mesurements are streamed to a PC for display purposes, and mode selection is done there. Just to keep the interface out of the equation for the initial phase. Once the AFE is done and working, we can attach what ever interface people want to the modular µC-Board.

Glad to see someone is still interested :)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:00:41 am by Stoney »
 

Offline crispus

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #209 on: March 07, 2013, 09:02:00 am »
Here is a nice diagram for bench multimeter:
http://www.ti.com/solution/digital_multimeter_bench_system
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jucole

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #210 on: March 07, 2013, 09:56:15 am »
I'm working on a DMM with some interesting features;  I'm using some DMM chipsets;  once i have a proof of concept and if it's worthy of a show'n'tell I'll post it here.

 

Offline crispus

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #211 on: March 07, 2013, 11:57:36 am »
Using DMM chipsets is not somehow limiting?
I mean, if you need only basic/supported functions it's OK, but if you want to do something customized, it that possible?

I think I would like more a discrete ADC.
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jucole

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #212 on: March 07, 2013, 12:40:25 pm »
Using DMM chipsets is not somehow limiting?
I mean, if you need only basic/supported functions it's OK, but if you want to do something customized, it that possible?
I think I would like more a discrete ADC.

A while back I was messing with my cheaper DMM; I pulled up the chipset datasheet and had a look though;  what I realised was in the datasheet they give the basic circuit for each aspect of the DMM;  which made it even more achievable for a beginner like me, I was quite excited.  But after I made up a pcb in my head all I had was just another DMM clone using the same chipset as the rest.  I did a bit more reading and after looking through some more the latest chipsets I found something I thought was really interesting; and that is some of the new ones offer 2 wire I2c.  Which means it can be controlled directly through software!  so to me that opens up massive possibilities;  for example the UI need not be rotary switching and buttons; it could be touchscreen;  you could calibrate it in software using offsets.  But what if you did use a screen, rotary and buttons etc in a board shape that exactly fitted the shell of any existing DMM;  "pimp-my-meter" ?  ;-)

Edit: the other idea I had was to only use 2 input jacks and use software switching; and the other really crazy ideas; you'll have to wait and see ;-)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 01:00:25 pm by jucole »
 

Offline crispus

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #213 on: March 07, 2013, 01:02:22 pm »
What chipset do you use? Are they available on European market?
I tried to find some time ago, and I saw only Cyrustek chips. But those aren't available on tme or farnell...
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jucole

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #214 on: March 07, 2013, 02:12:29 pm »
I have some Cyrustek ES51990.  http://www.cyrustek.com.tw/spec/ES51990F.pdf   
The problem is I don't really do electronics, so I could do with some help if anyone is interested - I make no promises about completing this though, it's just a proof-of concept.  The specs for the DMM would be basically as the datasheet;  It would need a uC with quite a bit of program space as most of the interesting features will be done in the code - which is where I can help;  the only requirement is that all work is opensource and uses opensource tools to create it.

 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #215 on: March 07, 2013, 03:10:10 pm »
I have some Cyrustek ES51990.  http://www.cyrustek.com.tw/spec/ES51990F.pdf   
The problem is I don't really do electronics, so I could do with some help if anyone is interested - I make no promises about completing this though, it's just a proof-of concept.  The specs for the DMM would be basically as the datasheet;  It would need a uC with quite a bit of program space as most of the interesting features will be done in the code - which is where I can help;  the only requirement is that all work is opensource and uses opensource tools to create it.
how did you get these chips ? I asked cyrustek some time ago for samples and they told me this chip is only for lcr manufacturers
they didnt gave me any more information than the ridiculous facts in the datasheet ...
if you dont have anything more than this datasheet we cannot do any chip interface ???
sorry I read the datasheet it is far more complete than the one we had some times ago
something can be done, but if the chip is unavailable to hobbysts this will not be very usefull ...
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:22:53 pm by kripton2035 »
 

Offline Stoney

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #216 on: March 07, 2013, 03:17:38 pm »
Here's a DVM the guys at the TU Berlin built in one of their lab courses. 5 1/2 digits and reasonably precise, even tough they use a simple approach. http://www.emsp.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/fg232/Lehre/MixedSignal/Dateien/Digitalvoltmeter/Schaltplan_DVM.pdf.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 10:24:57 am by Stoney »
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #217 on: March 07, 2013, 03:31:50 pm »
another sorry from me. you talk about the ES51990
I was refering to the ES51919/ES51920 which datasheet is very poor.
 

jucole

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #218 on: March 07, 2013, 04:18:41 pm »
how did you get these chips ?
Every wannabe EE has his sources but If I told you my source; it would no longer be my source! ;-)


something can be done, but if the chip is unavailable to hobbysts this will not be very usefull ...
Yeah, very true. (wack!! goes the last nail into my open DMM idea coffin, lol! );
 

Offline Stoney

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #219 on: March 08, 2013, 08:34:15 pm »
I just finished the block diagram....

In term of Collaboration on this Project, what would you choose? I like to start the project on the http://www.ohwr.org/ (CERN) with the CERN OHL version 1.1. The page is on chilli-project, which will give us a nice and handy issue tracking system and the possibility to include VC-repositorys, a wiki, etc., etc.

EDIT: Or should we just go with github?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 09:13:07 pm by Stoney »
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #220 on: March 08, 2013, 10:10:10 pm »
I'd say github. But basically just pick whatever works for you best. You're doing the work, so you get to pick what's easiest for you. :)

Also, thanks for your sensible contributions to this loooong thread. :) So far everything you posted looks actually practical, so I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with!  :-+
 

Offline Stoney

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #221 on: March 09, 2013, 02:51:52 am »
The github repo is online at: https://github.com/Stoney49th/OSHW-Multimeter

Feel free to stop by  :D I welcome everybody to join and spread the word...hope to get some feedback (issues work great  ;) ) from u guys :) Maybe we can actually build this thing and make another really great piece of open source hardware :) I wont be able to do it all by myself...so help is always welcome and appreciated!

See you on github  8)
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #222 on: March 09, 2013, 03:28:41 pm »
Couple of quick random thoughts while going over the documents:

ADS1258EVM is a nice ~ EUR 50 board that can get you up and running quickly with some decent resolution measurements. It's no integrating multi-slope adc because it's a delta-sigma adc. :P But it is affordable and reasonably easy to integrate so you have an easy starting point.

Yay! You picked spartan-6. All for it, and I might be able to contribute a bit there. The multi-slope adc + fpga combo has my interest for an entirely different non multi-meter project. Just make sure you're using (system) verilog and everything is dandy from my rather egotistically motivated standpoint. :P

stm32f407 as mcu ... again all for it. :) Use that quite a bit now for current projects.

regarding block diagram and ETH PHY on the right side of galvanic isolation ... ethernet has the added bonus of isolation, which IMO why it's a nice and easy interface for DIY measurement gear where 1) you want some safety and 2) don't want to have think too hard. I'd say aim for 100 MBit. For control alone you can probably suffice with 10 Mbit, so if the ONLY goal is commands over ethernet just do 10 mbit. But 100 MBit is easy enough with the stm32, and it gives you a nice bit of bandwidth to pump samples over to the PC in exchange for not too much effort. And yeah yeah, you can do gbit, but then you want to connect the gbit PHY to the spartan-6. Anyways, 100 mbit with a decent tcp stack on the stm32 will get you nice capabilities.

Integrated PSU ... if the amperage allows, try to make it a seperate daughter PCB that you can plonk on the main PCB. That way you can reuse it in other designs, and design improvements go both ways. I see this being done in both the DIY and the industrial sphere. In fact, I am just starting to do this myself. Design a couple of PSU blocks once, and then you can use it in different designs without reinventing the wheel. Plus it makes prototyping a lot faster if you can just grab a ready to connect PSU block and plonk it on the pcb/breadboard/deadbug.

Voltage ref ... try and make use of the fact that quite a few hobbyists would like an affordable lab standard. If you can define it such that the voltage ref is both usable in your design and as a standalone reference it would help the design effort. But at the same time, if this feature adds too much work for you ... skip it! Don't fall for the trap of wanting to do everything at once. It's a bit of a trade off. If making it a seperate module is hardly any effort, I'd say do it. If it is a significant effort ... screw those guys (and this guy :P ) and their need for a lab standard. Keep it simple. Now that I think about it ... screw those guys by definition. Keep it simple. First revision should be made with as major goal Just Get Something That Works. So keep in the back of your mind you may want to seperate the reference as a module, but that's about it.

And luckily your focus is a bench DMM, and not one of those Rule The World (and thereby defeat the Chinese) handheld opensauce multimeters that frollic in the pasture side by side with pixies and unicorns. A DIY bench DMM makes sense in 2013. A handheld does not IMO. Anyways, don't care for a "handheld makes no DIY sense" vs "bench is the way" discussion/flamewar. I am just glad you chose benchtop. Otherwise I would not even expend keystrokes/braincycles over it. :P

One more random remark that is low prio, but more as a placeholder: for commands, use SCPI. there's been some discussion in another thread about it, and IMO scpi is a reasonable choice for DIY hardware like this. At this stage I would not spend too much time on it. The main reason I mention it now is so you don't go and spend time & effort on some new way to send commands to your DMM. Just write down "[ x ] Send command & receive data from instrument. Use SCPI." somewhere on your project list. :P No need to spend more time on that right now. The analog is where the challenge is.

As for digits, I'd say aim for 5 1/2 digits for iteration #1 with an eye on 6 1/2 digits for future iterations. If you can make everything in the 6+ digit area the first go then go for it! If not, keep things simple, compromise a little and settle for a bit less accuracy. The ONLY reason I say this is to stay away from the trap of trying to be overly perfectionistic. Just get something that operates reasonably well first. After that you do incremental improvements.

Plus, I think that 5.5 digits is possible by just plonking in the previously mentioned ADS1258EVM without too much thought. :P

Anyways, enough semi-random remarks for now.
 

Offline branadic

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #223 on: March 10, 2013, 12:22:48 pm »
There're a few other potentially delta-sigma ADCs for such a project:

Texas Instruments: ADS1256, ADS1672
Analog Devices: AD7190, AD7764
Linear Technology: LTC2400, LTC2440

The choice for the right voltage references is also not as easy as it seems to:

Maxim Integrated: MAX6126, MAX6325/MAX6341/MAX6350
Analog Devices: ADR44x, AD584/AD586/AD588
Linear Technology: LTC6655, LM399AH
Texas Instruments: LM399AH

At the beginning reduce the goal to somewhat around 5digits to reduce the frustration.
There is a reason why LM399AH (maybe it's more of a LM199AH) is used in 6.5digit DMMs. But it's not only the tempco of voltage reference itself but the sum of all tempcos in front of the ADC.
Always bear in mind that 6.5digits means something like 21 noise-free bits and 5.5digit still 18bits. Refer to figure 1 in AN82 for that.
A few ideas could be selected from the datasheets of HP 34401.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 12:28:50 pm by branadic »
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Offline crispus

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Re: Open Source Multimeter
« Reply #224 on: March 11, 2013, 10:56:07 am »
...
Yay! You picked spartan-6. All for it, and I might be able to contribute a bit there. The multi-slope adc + fpga combo has my interest for an entirely different non multi-meter project. Just make sure you're using (system) verilog and everything is dandy from my rather egotistically motivated standpoint. :P
...
Why do you need a FPGA?
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